General Diesel or Petrol

[Disco Dave]

A big rugged off road 4WD used to be diesel, back when diesel was rugged. Now it is a petrol that is rugged.

 

[CountyV8]

Well the B57 and B58 share the same closed deck block if its strong enough for the diesel  then its  more than strong enough for the petrol plus with the petrol you don't get the complication of Ad Blue    

 

[Robbedoes]

It is also a choice specifically between a B57 and B58. Engine reliability is a must for a 4wd that is taken out into the wild. I don't know much about BMW engines other than what I can google, and the B58 is in a list of the 5 most reliable BMW engines. 

Does anyone know between what rpms the 550 Nm is available on the B57?

 

[Robbedoes]

That's great, thanks DaveB, those are excellent numbers for the B57 starting at 1250. Surely, there cannot be any doubt that the Diesel is the more capable 4wd and touring engine (low down torque, better range, higher compression), as long as all that extra complexity of the B57 (a modern diesel engine) does not blow up in our faces...

 

[emax]

The experiences are different.

I suspect that petrol engines are less sensitive to short journeys. In the case of "modern" diesels, the particle filter can become clogged if they are not brought up to operating temperature in between.

With that in mind, diesels should still be very durable machines. It's not the engines that cause problems, they are very robust. But all the junk that the legislator prescribes causes the problems. Diesels are certainly unsuitable as city cruisers these days. But off-road or on the track, they're still unbeatable.

 

[SteveB]

An interesting debate to read re the petrol v diesel, especially with the rocketing fuel prices here in the UK and the increasing penalties. Crunching the numbers, even with higher price per litre the diesel is more economical over 100 miles and I've gone for that albeit hesitantly, but mostly also for low end torque for towing. I'm assuming the BMW B57 I6 engine is Euro 6 standard compliant but haven't seen any detailed tech spec as to whether the Grenadier's engine has Ad Blu nor how many turbos are used (I believe the B57 has up to quad turbos on the BMWs)?

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=SteveB userid=8997089 postid=1332790779]An interesting debate to read re the petrol v diesel, especially with the rocketing fuel prices here in the UK and the increasing penalties. Crunching the numbers, even with higher price per litre the diesel is more economical over 100 miles and I've gone for that albeit hesitantly, but mostly also for low end torque for towing. I'm assuming the BMW B57 I6 engine is Euro 6 standard compliant but haven't seen any detailed tech spec as to whether the Grenadier's engine has Ad Blu nor how many turbos are used (I believe the B57 has up to quad turbos on the BMWs)?[/QUOTE]
It has a 17 litre adblu tank and two turbos

 

[SteveB]

Thanks for that info Dave, much appreciated

 

[sdellap]

The petrol engine only has one turbo, though.

edit : Grenadier brochure p. 22

 

[CountyV8]

[QUOTE username=S della P  sdellap userid=9003067 postid=1332790928]The petrol engine only has one turbo, though.[/QUOTE]

TwinPower Turbo is the BMW umbrella term that with regard to gasoline engines means that the following technologies are used:

• VANOS
• Valvetronic
• Direct injection
• Turbocharging
  
  Only has one turbo.

 

[DaveB]

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/05/27/bmw-b57-diesel-engine/

 

[DaveB]

 

 

[DaveB]

The petrol B58 Turbo is completely different to the B57 Diesel Turbo 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqPtDhTnXo

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332790460]The experiences are different.

I suspect that petrol engines are less sensitive to short journeys. In the case of "modern" diesels, the particle filter can become clogged if they are not brought up to operating temperature in between.

With that in mind, diesels should still be very durable machines. It's not the engines that cause problems, they are very robust. But all the junk that the legislator prescribes causes the problems. Diesels are certainly unsuitable as city cruisers these days. But off-road or on the track, they're still unbeatable.


[/QUOTE] The Grenadier Diesel notifies you on the display that the DPF is getting dirty and you need to take it for a blast. 
My Mercedes only notifies me with a bad smell when I pull into my garage. 

 

[Max]

There is so much more to the Diesel engines that's hard to explain until you have driven them for some time. My beliefs only, nothing is proven but Emax touched on it, the calming nature of the beast. I can imagine those poor fellows in a submarine in wartime may have been able to nod off to sleep listening and feeling the purr as I do listening to the rain on my tin roof. A diesel engine does not explode as a petrol engine does at ignition point but burns. I was under the impression for many years that its ignition was by causing the diesel to explode under pressure but no it's ignited by the extremely hot compressed air as it is injected. I think that that is why they seem in my mind to purr and in time it does become smoother and free running and not fighting against friction as much [running-in] which in turn creates better fuel economy, that I have proven. I have only owned diesel-powered vehicles since 1980 and I would suggest that my first inline-six diesel SD33T improved fuel economy up to 80,000ks seems like a long running-in period and stayed like that for another 400,000 whilst I owned her. My numerous other vehicles have done the same to different degrees. Diesels are all torque and no, you get the action.

 

[DaveB]

I think Diesel just suits big robust 4WDS. 
They are a lot smoother these days than they used to be but still they have a gruff note to them. 
The twin scroll turbo used in this engine just seems to keep on pulling and coupled to an 8 speed gearbox. 
I particularly liked the test drive where the driver engages low range without diff locks and just hits it from 0-80kmh in no time. 

 

[grenadierboy]

Totally agree with your last comment DaveB.

In the prototype test drive last year - we were going 15kmh up a moderately steep dirt track hill.

The driver floored it. The Grenadier instantly jumped to life and hurtled up the hill effortlessly. You could not have believed the car weighed 2.6 tonnes!

There wasn't a hint of lag, the engine was super smooth - growling a bit but wasn't screaming.

 

[Spjnr]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332801702]Totally agree with your last comment DaveB.

In the prototype test drive last year - we were going 15kmh up a moderately steep dirt track hill.

The driver floored it. The Grenadier instantly jumped to life and hurtled up the hill effortlessly. You could not have believed the car weighed 2.6 tonnes!

There wasn't a hint of lag, the engine was super smooth - growling a bit but wasn't screaming.
[/QUOTE]

I had the same experience, which I guess is a result of the Grenadiers low end torque. Also, the gear changes are so seamless there's no gaps in power when accelerating 

 

[DaveB]

Fast forward to 33:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wbr_UCfZcs

 

[grenadierboy]

Exactly - and good point Spjnr.

I forgot about the gear changes - couldn't hardly notice them & certainly not feel them