General Diesel or Petrol

[klarie]

We turfed our Merc GLC not just because of rising fuel costs , but also because it chewed tyres/brakes - we live on top of a steep hill , and it was also auto trans. And do not use speed limiter - this causes the brakes to get hammered!
The Volvo EV in 1 pedal drive mode uses engine brakes (it will stop the car on the hill if you leave it coasting for a few seconds)
Thus though the car is heavy I'm anticipating brakes will last a fair while. In most situations, even city traffic, if you drive carefully you don't need to use them.
As my wife drives sensibly , she won't be overstressing the tyres. I hardly drive it enough to make a long term difference.
All these things are worth thinking about on this forum ; Ineos has said they will be building a SWB EV, even though it will be unsuited for proper overlanding/towing.

Perhaps Ineos Automotive has to do it for perhaps political reason once again. No doubt there is still a lot of development going on in powering and storing electric energy. So in a couple of years we perhaps see EV with 700mls and more w/o recharging. And may shorten the charge time significant.
But as of now we are still away from that. So a proper Overlanding off-road EV .. not in near future.
We repeat a discussion we had here a few times already .. no solution yet. Perhaps we should create a FAQ to frequent discussed topics and put some collected information there .. pls read this first.
In a later phase once IG is at customer there will be a bunch of FAQ topics on equipment, modification such as portal axles, towing.. aftermarket supply..

 

[TD5-90]

I agree on the part that we should avoid political topics. There is too much ideology involved.
This once was my own suggestion here and I had better stick to it. That doesn't mean that I withdraw anything.

But time will tell.

And for the time being let's have fun to confess we are diesel (petrol also welcome!) heads:

The credits for the original idea goes to a guy in unimog-community.de, +10 years ago, unfortunately I'm not able to locate the post.
Modified it a bit and had made some tens of the sticker.
Experience lots of thumbs up when spotted, but also furious greens that couldn't stand (scratched the sticker off of a coworker's car + was caught in action).
Ok I admit: It wasn't my most rational moment when i couldn't resist putting one on the back of a Toyo Prius a long time ago...

A bit of emotion enriches life a lot ;-)

 

[BMW.Leo]

I had now the third six cylinder diesel engine (2 x 530 and 1x330 ) and I never want to change to another engine anymore
And special for this Grenadier it’s my favourite
The torque is brilliant and acceptable consumption too

 

[emax]

Modified it a bit and had made some tens of the sticker.

Great, love it!

 

[DaveB]

At of now. DC.. I am not an electrical engineer.. But fact is - tested E-Engines.. Tried it in a Beamer, and Mercedes Benz S-Class Hybrid...
they ve got undeniable huge torque from very beginning. No doubt.. the e-engine by itself has quite some advantages..

We used to use DC motors (Baldor & KB Penta drives) in production plants because they have 100% torque from zero speed effectively.
AC motors had zero torque and so could not move a load from standstill.
Then they invented a flux vector inverter or variable speed drive which gave AC motors torque from zero speed.
Electric vehicles have really revived DC Motors.

 

[Pipm4000]

I don't even know or care what sort of battery my wife's Volvo has.
I chop down trees to heat my home in winter , but I don't have to use power to cool my house in summer.
We all have our circumstances and points of view , and virtue signalling never saved anything!

Sorry - wasn’t virtue signalling - didn’t know what battery my Tesla had when I got it, but for normal cars and power packs LiFe PO4 batteries seem a lot better than Li Ion, also way less likely to catch fire. I’ve learned this after the fact. All EV’s seem rubbish for towing and for adventures. For me longevity is important as is efficiency. Hopefully the Grenadier will last a long time. I also have a petrol V8 Land Rover .

 

[rovie]

Sorry - wasn’t virtue signalling - didn’t know what battery my Tesla had when I got it, but for normal cars and power packs LiFe PO4 batteries seem a lot better than Li Ion, also way less likely to catch fire. I’ve learned this after the fact. All EV’s seem rubbish for towing and for adventures. For me longevity is important as is efficiency. Hopefully the Grenadier will last a long time. I also have a petrol V8 Land Rover .

Do you also have the 3.5 litre Buick engine?

 

[TD5-90]

We used to use DC motors (Baldor & KB Penta drives) in production plants because they have 100% torque from zero speed effectively.
AC motors had zero torque and so could not move a load from standstill.
Then they invented a flux vector inverter or variable speed drive which gave AC motors torque from zero speed.
Electric vehicles have really revived DC Motors.

DC: Right, I think.
AC: Not in general, in my view. Rather: It depends on the design of the machine, especially on the squirrel cage design.

EDIT: (AC) Induction machines are also used in EVs: No magnets, short term overload capability and some other properties different from PMSM.
Again: It depends....

Source: https://energie.ch/asynchronmaschine/ Sorry for the German!

 

[DaveB]

Sorry - wasn’t virtue signalling - didn’t know what battery my Tesla had when I got it, but for normal cars and power packs LiFe PO4 batteries seem a lot better than Li Ion, also way less likely to catch fire. I’ve learned this after the fact. All EV’s seem rubbish for towing and for adventures. For me longevity is important as is efficiency. Hopefully the Grenadier will last a long time. I also have a petrol V8 Land Rover .

My concerns with any battery packs is

• Performance in high or low temperature
• Replacement cost after 8-10 years (USD$20K ?)
• Risk of fire if waterproof housing gets damaged in an accident

 

[Max]

As I enter my golden years, this is all I strive for.
My generation , and the previous generations , have failed to save the world - thus it's ever man (or woman) for themselves!
Run for the hills in a Grenadier!

What are the golden years? and don't worry about the world...Mother Earth has been around a very long time and isn't going anywhere soon...maybe in her golden years, she will run for the hills in a Grenadier.

 

[DaveB]

What are the golden years? and don't worry about the world...Mother Earth has been around a very long time and isn't going anywhere soon...maybe in her golden years, she will run for the hills in a Grenadier.

Yes we tend to forget that the earth has been around for about 4.5 Billion years, humans about 5 Million years and Homo Sapiens, our species, only about 200,000 years.
We are but a speck of dust in a pile of dirt

 

[Pipm4000]

My concerns with any battery packs is

• Performance in high or low temperature
• Replacement cost after 8-10 years (USD$20K ?)
• Risk of fire if waterproof housing gets damaged in an accident

My Tesla loses about 10% range in winter, heat pump is apparently a big help and are really necessary in temperate or cold climates.
LiFePO4 batteries are at 80% capacity at 8-10 years, they will never realistically be replaced but salvaged to become storage batteries when the car is scrapped. Again fire risk ever when punctured low.

 

[Tazzieman]

Sorry - wasn’t virtue signalling

It was just a general comment. People these days seem quick to take the moral/ethical high ground. They are often quite tense people, and tense is never happy or healthy.

 

[Tazzieman]

What are the golden years? and don't worry about the world...

No idea, it's another Western construct I think. Designed to sell retirement homes (OMFG)
I don't worry about anything I can't readily change if I want/need to. Worry is just wasted energy that can be used constructively and enjoyably elsewhere

 

[DaveB]

No idea, it's another Western construct I think. Designed to sell retirement homes (OMFG)
I don't worry about anything I can't readily change if I want/need to. Worry is just wasted energy that can be used constructively and enjoyably elsewhere

I heard a good one many years ago about worrying

1. Make a list of everything that worries you
2. Divide it into two lists, things you can do something about and things you can't do anything about
3. work through the list you can do something about instead of worrying
4. Take the list you can't do anything about, set aside 10 minutes a day and worry like f**k

 

[Skibum]

Having run a BMW X5 with the M57 diesel engine to 170K, and currently a 435XD with the N57, I am looking forward to running BMW's latest 3L Diesel in my IG - expected in May. Fabulous engines in my experience and no issue with either of mine here in the UK. Both gave better mpg than expected and the torque in everyday driving is a delight. I am hopeful that current diesel fuel prices will fall when Ukraine war ends. I'm not fussed about potential big city diesel bans one day because I wouldn't want to drive an IG in somewhere like London anyway. The commercial vehicle and marine need for diesel convinces me it will be easily available for decades. It also came as a nice surprise that the diesel engined variant is no more expensive, unlike when choosing the BMW vehicles. I expect re-sale value to be higher because of its future popularity as a family tow vehicle. Finally, fingers crossed re. IG reliability; I drove 5 LR/RR over the years and had expensive problems with all of them, in fact our RR Vogue was trailered away today after its power steering motor fell off - rotted aluminium bolts resulted in the steering suddenly locking up!

 

[rovie]

Having run a BMW X5 with the M57 diesel engine to 170K, and currently a 435XD with the N57, I am looking forward to running BMW's latest 3L Diesel in my IG - expected in May. Fabulous engines in my experience and no issue with either of mine here in the UK. Both gave better mpg than expected and the torque in everyday driving is a delight. I am hopeful that current diesel fuel prices will fall when Ukraine war ends. I'm not fussed about potential big city diesel bans one day because I wouldn't want to drive an IG in somewhere like London anyway. The commercial vehicle and marine need for diesel convinces me it will be easily available for decades. It also came as a nice surprise that the diesel engined variant is no more expensive, unlike when choosing the BMW vehicles. I expect re-sale value to be higher because of its future popularity as a family tow vehicle. Finally, fingers crossed re. IG reliability; I drove 5 LR/RR over the years and had expensive problems with all of them, in fact our RR Vogue was trailered away today after its power steering motor fell off - rotted aluminium bolts resulted in the steering suddenly locking up!

The problem with your Range Rover Vogue worries me. I am still in contact with JLR about the new Range Rover and am waiting for a test drive date. At the moment, they are unable to find a suitable vehicle in Germany for me. This cannot be true. I have therefore written to the Managing Director Germany personally. His assistant replied that he would contact me personally in the next few days. If JLR continues like this, they can keep the Range and I will look around for another star. Maybe a real one, although I no longer wanted a vehicle of this brand. But sometimes you have to jump over your shadow.

 

[klarie]

Having run a BMW X5 with the M57 diesel engine to 170K, and currently a 435XD with the N57, I am looking forward to running BMW's latest 3L Diesel in my IG - expected in May. Fabulous engines in my experience and no issue with either of mine here in the UK. Both gave better mpg than expected and the torque in everyday driving is a delight. I am hopeful that current diesel fuel prices will fall when Ukraine war ends. I'm not fussed about potential big city diesel bans one day because I wouldn't want to drive an IG in somewhere like London anyway. The commercial vehicle and marine need for diesel convinces me it will be easily available for decades. It also came as a nice surprise that the diesel engined variant is no more expensive, unlike when choosing the BMW vehicles. I expect re-sale value to be higher because of its future popularity as a family tow vehicle. Finally, fingers crossed re. IG reliability; I drove 5 LR/RR over the years and had expensive problems with all of them, in fact our RR Vogue was trailered away today after its power steering motor fell off - rotted aluminium bolts resulted in the steering suddenly locking up!

Hm.. the complaints on JLR vehicles are quite raising. Seriously I had a few most minor topics across all vehicles I possessed. The issues with my Disco.. apart from normal wear like brake discs and pads.. were indeed minor.
The radar sensor during warranty need to be replaced and one roof liner went loos and was required to be fixed.
Tech issues were at 150tkm a camshaft sensor and one of the heater plugs and at 168tkm drive chain to be replace.
Cost beyond normal service was some 400eur parts and mech works and drivechain 1550 Euros all together
means chain and any mech work.. totally around 2000euros beyond normal service maintenance investments
The most expensive vehicle I possessed was a Mercedes Benz Viano. Micro Van.. Injector, automatic gearbox, something here something there, power windows failing.. Every now and then a visit in the garage.
The most reliable vehicle was a Mercedes GLK 250 CDI 4Matic.. However seat covers worn out in 2 years.. replaced. Also extreme noisy..
I ve read from many LR owners .. some vehicles are like mine.. reliable while others tell me.. every month one visit in garage.. perhaps it’s like rolling dices .. it depends on the day of work or certain conditions in Solihull if vehicles are built properly or like scrap ? Perhaps I was just lucky..

 

[rovie]

Hm.. the complaints on JLR vehicles are quite raising. Seriously I had a few most minor topics across all vehicles I possessed. The issues with my Disco.. apart from normal wear like brake discs and pads.. were indeed minor.
The radar sensor during warranty need to be replaced and one roof liner went loos and was required to be fixed.
Tech issues were at 150tkm a camshaft sensor and one of the heater plugs and at 168km drive chain to be replace.
Cost beyond normal service was some 400eur parts and mech works and drivechain 1550 Euros all together
means chain and any mech work..
The most expensive vehicle I possessed was a Mercedes Benz Viano. Micro Van.. Injector, automatic gearbox, something here something there, power windows failing.. Every now and then a visit in the garage.
The most reliable vehicle was als a Mercedes GLK 250 CDI 4Matic.. However seat covers worn out in 2 years.. replaced. Also extreme noisy..
I ve read from many LR owners .. some vehicles are like mine.. reliable while others tell me.. every month one visit in garage.. perhaps it’s like rolling dices .. it depends on the day of work or certain conditions in Solihull if vehicles are built properly or like scrap ? Perhaps I was just lucky..

The quality varies from vehicle to vehicle. That is true. With our Disco 4, the issues are kept within limits. I've just come from the workshop. Replaced the rear left brake piston because it was corroded. The Defender's turbo blew at 100k, my faithful companion Disco 2 now has over 340k on the clock, nothing but maintenance! Nothing major on the Classics, they are still in original condition. Not restored.

 

[DaveB]

Hm.. the complaints on JLR vehicles are quite raising. Seriously I had a few most minor topics across all vehicles I possessed. The issues with my Disco.. apart from normal wear like brake discs and pads.. were indeed minor.
The radar sensor during warranty need to be replaced and one roof liner went loos and was required to be fixed.
Tech issues were at 150tkm a camshaft sensor and one of the heater plugs and at 168tkm drive chain to be replace.
Cost beyond normal service was some 400eur parts and mech works and drivechain 1550 Euros all together
means chain and any mech work.. totally around 2000euros beyond normal service maintenance investments
The most expensive vehicle I possessed was a Mercedes Benz Viano. Micro Van.. Injector, automatic gearbox, something here something there, power windows failing.. Every now and then a visit in the garage.
The most reliable vehicle was als a Mercedes GLK 250 CDI 4Matic.. However seat covers worn out in 2 years.. replaced. Also extreme noisy..
I ve read from many LR owners .. some vehicles are like mine.. reliable while others tell me.. every month one visit in garage.. perhaps it’s like rolling dices .. it depends on the day of work or certain conditions in Solihull if vehicles are built properly or like scrap ? Perhaps I was just lucky..

I recall one US YouTuber (sorry can't recall which one) about 2 years ago ordered a Defender 90? for themselves and when they picked it up at the dealer they couldn't drive away because the engine failed and had to be replaced.
Several months later a new engine and on the drive home it went into limp home mode.
Turns out the dealer had damaged a wiring loom when putting the new engine in.
They then had to wait for a new wiring loom to arrive from overseas.
Personally I would have requested a whole new vehicle.