CTEK SMARTPASS 120S and 250SE DC to DC charger basic features and install information

[DCPU]

Brilliant ~ it's like rolling a peanut up a mountain with your nose, but with appropriate Grenadier style vim and vigour, the truth will slowly be uncovered.

When they refer to "the battery charger that is installed in Grenadier" is it absolutely certain they are referring to the Smartpass installed in the Grenadier?

Hopefully, your supplementary question will tease out a bit more...

 

[Jean Mercier]

Do we continue with the Smartpass saga?

In the next picture, taken in a car recently delivered to Hedin Belgium, we will play a game, "please search for the 10 differences" with those who got a Smartpass box in the car:

Result:

1. No Smartpass box in the car
2. No Smartpass manual in the car
3. A red warning sticker!
4. The lower right connector isn't a connector
5. No CTEK brand mentioned
6. to 10. I didn't find myself, perhaps Ineos or CTEK can help

My guess, we early birds had luck!
Like those who didn't order a utility (L-track) rail got those for free because the delivery of the other strips was delayed, those who ordered Trialmasters or cars with the full electrical options (second battery) got a full functional CTEK Smartpass instead of a less functional and cheaper CTEK because there were delivery delays!

This is a guess, of course, but a reasonable guess.

I already see worried or disappointed faces from those people who didn't get their cars yet!
I understand this is probably bad news!

I don't understand that Ineos, and their lurkers, didn't warn us here on this forum!

I still am not 100% sure of course, should be confirmed by Ineos.

I did ask my dealer to ask the following question to Ineos:
"What is the technical difference between the CTEK Smartpass in the Grenadier and a Standard CTEK Smartpass?"

And I still hope and believe that those who got the box, got the standard Smartpass!

 

[Tomdoc]

That is fascinating - I am sure mine is a "normal 120" despite not having the brand name on the front. It does have the consumer outlet option complete with the red triangle warning tag. We actually really do need to know the various types installed. For dual battery systems it is important,

 

[DCPU]

Do we continue with the Smartpass saga?

In the next picture, taken in a car recently delivered to Hedin Belgium, we will play a game, "please search for the 10 differences" with those who got a Smartpass box in the car:
View attachment 7825092
Result:

1. No Smartpass box in the car
2. No Smartpass manual in the car
3. A red warning sticker!
4. The lower right connector isn't a connector
5. No CTEK brand mentioned
6. to 10. I didn't find myself, perhaps Ineos or CTEK can help

My guess, we early birds had luck!
Like those who didn't order a utility (L-track) rail got those for free because the delivery of the other strips was delayed, those who ordered Trialmasters or cars with the full electrical options (second battery) got a full functional CTEK Smartpass instead of a less functional and cheaper CTEK because there were delivery delays!

This is a guess, of course, but a reasonable guess.

I already see worried or disappointed faces from those people who didn't get their cars yet!
I understand this is probably bad news!

I don't understand that Ineos, and their lurkers, didn't warn us her on this forum!

I still am not 100% sure of course, should be confirmed by Ineos.

I did ask my dealer to ask the following question to Ineos:
"What is the technical difference between the CTEK Smartpass in the Grenadier and a Standard CTEK Smartpass?"

And I still hope and believe that those who got the box, got the standard Smartpass!

What a cracking find. Well done @Jean Mercier. That label is really something.

 

[AnD3rew]

Do we continue with the Smartpass saga?

In the next picture, taken in a car recently delivered to Hedin Belgium, we will play a game, "please search for the 10 differences" with those who got a Smartpass box in the car:
View attachment 7825092
Result:

1. No Smartpass box in the car
2. No Smartpass manual in the car
3. A red warning sticker!
4. The lower right connector isn't a connector
5. No CTEK brand mentioned
6. to 10. I didn't find myself, perhaps Ineos or CTEK can help

My guess, we early birds had luck!
Like those who didn't order a utility (L-track) rail got those for free because the delivery of the other strips was delayed, those who ordered Trialmasters or cars with the full electrical options (second battery) got a full functional CTEK Smartpass instead of a less functional and cheaper CTEK because there were delivery delays!

This is a guess, of course, but a reasonable guess.

I already see worried or disappointed faces from those people who didn't get their cars yet!
I understand this is probably bad news!

I don't understand that Ineos, and their lurkers, didn't warn us her on this forum!

I still am not 100% sure of course, should be confirmed by Ineos.

I did ask my dealer to ask the following question to Ineos:
"What is the technical difference between the CTEK Smartpass in the Grenadier and a Standard CTEK Smartpass?"

And I still hope and believe that those who got the box, got the standard Smartpass!

Yes I am 99.9% sure mine is a genuine 120s its says so on the device, and the box came with the car including the manual.
I am also very interested to know whether this unit is dumbed down to save cost, or whether there is genuine reason why the full functionality of the Smartpass isn’t compatible with the car. I think there is a strong likelihood if I was delivered this device I would just throw the whole thing out and replace with a proper DC/DC charger. But since INEOS has said to various people that the car’s electrical system was designed to only use this, I would like to know exactly why? Because as far as I am concerned the unit I have has a consumer output, it came with a manual that explains that that output should be used for a fridge, and I fully intend to attach my fridge to it. If that causes problems I suggest those problems are INEOS problems.

 

[Logsplitter]

Yes I am 99.9% sure mine is a genuine 120s its says so on the device, and the box came with the car including the manual.
I am also very interested to know whether this unit is dumbed down to save cost, or whether there is genuoa reason why the full functionality of the Smartpass isn’t compatible with the car. I think there is a strong likelihood if I was delivered this device I would just throw the whole thing out and replace with a proper DC/DC charger. But since INEOS has said to various people that the car’s electrical system was designed to only use this, I would like to know exactly why? Because as far as I am concerned the unit I have has a consumer output, it came with a manual that explains that that output should be used for a fridge, and I fully intend to attach ny fridge to it. If that causes problems I suggest those problems are INEOS problems.

Exactly. I’ve connected my fridge to the consumer output on the smartpass 120 in my Grenadier.

 

[bakepl]

Yes I am 99.9% sure mine is a genuine 120s its says so on the device, and the box came with the car including the manual.
I am also very interested to know whether this unit is dumbed down to save cost, or whether there is genuoa reason why the full functionality of the Smartpass isn’t compatible with the car. I think there is a strong likelihood if I was delivered this device I would just throw the whole thing out and replace with a proper DC/DC charger. But since INEOS has said to various people that the car’s electrical system was designed to only use this, I would like to know exactly why? Because as far as I am concerned the unit I have has a consumer output, it came with a manual that explains that that output should be used for a fridge, and I fully intend to attach ny fridge to it. If that causes problems I suggest those problems are INEOS problems.

Same here, picked up vehicle on Friday and it is fitted with the retail 'smartpass' (Vin under 1000) and not the modified one Jean found. Mine came with the box and small empty plastic bag. I guess that's why in Jeans reply from Ctek they say it's different - certainly is for the later vehicles it would seem. In due course I'll be looking at moving the accessories 80 amp cable from the busbar (if this is indeed confirmed to power the accessories) to the output of the Ctek so it drains the aux battery whilst utilising the low volt cutoff - and any other accessories I add.

 

[DaBull]

Do we continue with the Smartpass saga?

In the next picture, taken in a car recently delivered to Hedin Belgium, we will play a game, "please search for the 10 differences" with those who got a Smartpass box in the car:
View attachment 7825092
Result:

1. No Smartpass box in the car
2. No Smartpass manual in the car
3. A red warning sticker!
4. The lower right connector isn't a connector
5. No CTEK brand mentioned
6. to 10. I didn't find myself, perhaps Ineos or CTEK can help

My guess, we early birds had luck!
Like those who didn't order a utility (L-track) rail got those for free because the delivery of the other strips was delayed, those who ordered Trialmasters or cars with the full electrical options (second battery) got a full functional CTEK Smartpass instead of a less functional and cheaper CTEK because there were delivery delays!

This is a guess, of course, but a reasonable guess.

I already see worried or disappointed faces from those people who didn't get their cars yet!
I understand this is probably bad news!

I don't understand that Ineos, and their lurkers, didn't warn us here on this forum!

I still am not 100% sure of course, should be confirmed by Ineos.

I did ask my dealer to ask the following question to Ineos:
"What is the technical difference between the CTEK Smartpass in the Grenadier and a Standard CTEK Smartpass?"

And I still hope and believe that those who got the box, got the standard Smartpass!

Hi Jean, Is the red wire connected to anything or simply left unconnected like all the others? Of all the Forum threads this one is amazing for the lack of clarity that Ineos provides. It is like one step forward and two back. I feel like we are all detectives trying to figure this out. Thanks for all your great detective work. Please keep it up until there is absolute clarity on the 120S and 250SE. DaBull

 

[Jean Mercier]

Hi Jean, Is the red wire connected to anything or simply left unconnected like all the others?

Forgot to look

 

[DCPU]

Forgot to look

Good job you've got to go back for your outstanding jobs.

 

[Jean Mercier]

I got an answer from CTEK concerning my question:

What is the difference between the standard CTEK Smartpass and the model in the Grenadier? I am an electronic engineer, and are curious. Could you please ask your technical team?

Hello Jean,

I've received a reply from our technical department:
"Maintenance charging function of the starter battery has changed parameters so as not to interfere with the operation of the car.

Also, the temperature sensor is adapted to the vehicle."

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Tim

OK, while they don't go into details, I am quite satisfied that I did get an answer.

[EDITED] I did ask my dealer to ask the same question to Ineos. No answer yet.

 

[Wilaspira]

I got an answer from CTEK concerning my question:

What is the difference between the standard CTEK Smartpass and the model in the Grenadier? I am an electronic engineer, and are curious. Could you please ask your technical team?

Hello Jean,

I've received a reply from our technical department:
"Maintenance charging function of the starter battery has changed parameters so as not to interfere with the operation of the car.

Also, the temperature sensor is adapted to the vehicle."

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Tim

OK, while they don't go into details, I am quite satisfied that I did get an answer.

[EDITED] I did ask my dealer to ask the same question to Ineos. No answer yet.

Thanks. This sort of begs the question do the early adopters with possibly non-altered, off the shelf smartpass 120 units not have the changed parameters (ie prima facile they still have a set up which interferes with the operation [?] of the Car)?

 

[Jean Mercier]

Thanks. This sort of begs the question do the early adopters with possibly non-altered, off the shelf smartpass 120 units not have the changed parameters (ie prima facile they still have a set up which interferes with the operation [?] of the Car)?

Indeed, that is what I was also thinking. First I thought that this could be the reason of all the "false alerts" (transmission, PDI, eCall, etc.), but then I thought: even those with a single battery are complaining about error messages, therefore this couldn't be the reason. Otherwise it would have been easy to check: disconnect the Smartpass (and therefore the Auxiliary battery) and see if you still have errors.

 

[BAS-Remaps]

Sounds to me more like a valid reason for change reply than them admitting it’s a cost saving change really.

 

[CB]

I wonder why Ineos didn't go with a setup similar to this rather than the complicated somewhat useless dual battery system currently being installed. When I first saw the option for dual batteries, I thought it would arrive with an isolated service battery like in this video. They certainly know what they are doing in Australia.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbKa3T9gYAk

 

[K1LL3M]

Its bewildering why Ineos complicated this so much. It appears the 2nd battery is more an extension battery not an accessory battery.

I wonder if there is software related to the second battery ie if we pull the Ctek unit will we run into trouble with software.

Given the way they have set it up it does sound like a signle battery option and then DIY would have been better.

Does anyone with the single battery setup Have pictures of differences? Is it just missing the Ctek and connection.

 

[DaveB]

Its bewildering why Ineos complicated this so much. It appears the 2nd battery is more an extension battery not an accessory battery.

I wonder if there is software related to the second battery ie if we pull the Ctek unit will we run into trouble with software.

Given the way they have set it up it does sound like a signle battery option and then DIY would have been better.

Does anyone with the single battery setup Have pictures of differences? Is it just missing the Ctek and connection.

You didn't have to select the second battery
It is optional

 

[AnD3rew]

I got an answer from CTEK concerning my question:

What is the difference between the standard CTEK Smartpass and the model in the Grenadier? I am an electronic engineer, and are curious. Could you please ask your technical team?

Hello Jean,

I've received a reply from our technical department:
"Maintenance charging function of the starter battery has changed parameters so as not to interfere with the operation of the car.

Also, the temperature sensor is adapted to the vehicle."

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Tim

OK, while they don't go into details, I am quite satisfied that I did get an answer.

[EDITED] I did ask my dealer to ask the same question to Ineos. No answer yet.

The plot thickens.

So here is a straw man theory, no idea if true or even plausible, feel free to shoot down. I hope that just charging rates are not interfering with systems because that really would be a poor design ona vehicle designed for enthusiasts who will for sure modify and add stuff.

Maybe INEOS has emissions and fuel consumption targets they are struggling to meet with such a heavy beast. If people are using the consumer ports heavily and the smart alternator wires are connected it will be running the alternator much more in order to power consumers and charge batteries in parallel. More alternator run time = more fuel consumption.

If this is true it would be good to know, because it means that those prepared to make the trade off can happily connect everything up without worrying about upsetting the car systems.

 

[K1LL3M]

You didn't have to select the second battery
It is optional

Thanks @DaveB I'm pretty sure every one who has specced and bought a Grenadier knows this. I wanted a dual battery setup, as does everyone that did select the second battery option

It does not however appear to be what we have got. Nor is it what we thought we were getting, and this is the rub. As is evident in this thread. The information was either lacking to enable a proper decision, or the system has been poorly implemented. Or both.

Now, why when we question/comment on reasoning or dissatisfaction, is there always this response, "well you didnt have to chose it"? (Translation shut up, stop whinging) Who does that help and what does it contribute to the conversation

My point is relevant and my opinion as valid as yours.

 

[DaveB]

Thanks @DaveB I'm pretty sure every one who has specced and bought a Grenadier knows this. I wanted a dual battery setup, as does everyone that did select the second battery option

It does not however appear to be what we have got. Nor is it what we thought we were getting, and this is the rub. As is evident in this thread. The information was either lacking to enable a proper decision, or the system has been poorly implemented. Or both.

Now, why when we question/comment on reasoning or dissatisfaction, is there always this response, "well you didnt have to chose it"? (Translation shut up, stop whinging) Who does that help and what does it contribute to the conversation

My point is relevant and my opinion as valid as yours.

No, it doesn't mean shut up........
It means that a lot of people on here who wanted a second battery system made the decision not to order it and go with an aftermarket system that they have experience with or a good understanding of.
If there was uncertainty about how it worked and what you get then don't order it.
That was my point.
If you order the Trialmaster you get it as standard
If you order the Fieldmaster now you cant option it at all.
You could when I ordered mine and I did.
You still have the option of starting from scratch and building the vehicle to your own spec.
We were all made aware of this clause before ordering so absolutely nothing was 100% set in stone.