CTEK Smartpass 120S smart alternator feed

[AnD3rew]

Sorry guys, mislead you.
my vehicle was offered to me after I cancelled my original order.
It has the auxiliary wiring loom and front winch but no auxiliary battery nor Smartpass 120S so I’m going to retrofit it to give me the extra power and peace of mind.
Moll batteries are hard to find in the Uk and and also inferior performance to AGM so my thoughts were to fit a Varta 95 aH gel battery as the second auxiliart battery with the Smartpass 120S ?
not sure if this is OK to do?

If you don’t have the second battery or Smartpass, I would be tempted to go with something like a redarc BC/DC charger and whatever battery you like.

 

[Greg]

If you don’t have the second battery or Smartpass, I would be tempted to go with something like a redarc BC/DC charger and whatever battery you like.

I didn't go for the second battery as at the time no one knew what the system would be, and so decided i would roll my own so to speak.
Will probably be a second battery completely seperate with dc/dc from alternator and solar.
But for now just waiting and watching to see what happens to the twin battery/smartpass.
Who knows, maybe it will get sorted and work great and be the way to go.

 

[DenisM]

I didn't go for the second battery as at the time no one knew what the system would be, and so decided i would roll my own so to speak.
Will probably be a second battery completely seperate with dc/dc from alternator and solar.
But for now just waiting and watching to see what happens to the twin battery/smartpass.
Who knows, maybe it will get sorted and work great and be the way to go.

I have the heavy duty wiring and battery as standard on the Trialmaster. I've left it alone. I have a 100AH LiFePO4 DIY battery box with multiple outlets, 500W inverter and a DC-DC charger /solar which I use for fridges, lighting and UHF. It's ample for my needs.

 

[MarkIGTM]

I have the heavy duty wiring and battery as standard on the Trialmaster. I've left it alone. I have a 100AH LiFePO4 DIY battery box with multiple outlets, 500W inverter and a DC-DC charger /solar which I use for fridges, lighting and UHF. It's ample for my needs.

I'm considering the same as I have the battery and 25A DC/DC in the old car. Any concerns with running both the standard CTEK 120 and the additional DC/DC simultaneously from the alternator?
I think the additional LiFePO4 will just be to run the fridge when camped up static for more than a few days. Got a bit nervous about the engine starting while watching the voltage on both batteries drop over the Xmas camp.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Can someone explain to me like I’m 5 what this smart pass thing is people are talking about? Right now I have a refrigerator cooler/freezer in the back that’s plugged into the 12v outlet. Last night I parked and left the overhead power switch on kind of doing a test run. This morning at 9am it was at 74%.

Now some questions.

1) Is that 74% the total of both batteries?
2) With that switch on it only drains the house battery correct?
3) if #2 is yes then does that mean when the indicator his 50% that my house battery is dead?
4) I was reading on CTEK website that the 120s can do acid/agm/ and lithium batteries. Can you mix and match? Can you just toss in a lithium house battery with no other changes?
5) I know it’s a 105ah EFB battery but what actual size is it? Wondering how large of a lithium battery you could put in its place for the max amp hours. I don’t run solar but being able to worker the fridge/freezer and exterior lights for camping or fishing all night would be great.

Thanks!

 

[AnD3rew]

Can someone explain to me like I’m 5 what this smart pass thing is people are talking about? Right now I have a refrigerator cooler/freezer in the back that’s plugged into the 12v outlet. Last night I parked and left the overhead power switch on kind of doing a test run. This morning at 9am it was at 74%.

Now some questions.

1) Is that 74% the total of both batteries?
2) With that switch on it only drains the house battery correct?
3) if #2 is yes then does that mean when the indicator his 50% that my house battery is dead?
4) I was reading on CTEK website that the 120s can do acid/agm/ and lithium batteries. Can you mix and match? Can you just toss in a lithium house battery with no other changes?
5) I know it’s a 105ah EFB battery but what actual size is it? Wondering how large of a lithium battery you could put in its place for the max amp hours. I don’t run solar but being able to worker the fridge/freezer and exterior lights for camping or fishing all night would be great.

Thanks!

To question 1, we don’t really know, INEOS has provided no information. I think it’s just starter battery maybe someone who uas installed shunts can say more. With the switch on it takes power from the starter battery but I think up to a certain point the second battery will try to top up the starter battery, bit again no information available.
I think you need the D240SE as well and some minor wiring changes to add lithium.

 

[255/85]

I can answer a couple....I think.

2) With that switch on it only drains the house battery correct?

My understanding is that the house/service battery will continue to pulse charge the start battery (as it is being used with the engine off) until the service battery reaches (or is drained to) a set voltage point which will allow it to still be able start the vehicle if you've also drained the start battery. I think I have this correct.

4) I was reading on CTEK website that the 120s can do acid/agm/ and lithium batteries. Can you mix and match? Can you just toss in a lithium house battery with no other changes?

This is what CTEK told me two days ago:

"The starter battery must be 12V lead-acid (which includes AGM and EFB). The service battery can be any type of 12V battery/battery bank including WET, EFB, Ca/Ca, MF, AGM and GEL, Li-FePO4, Li-Fe, Li-iron, LFP) up to 800Ah in capacity."

Hth. Yes, there's a missing parenthesis, but that's exactly what I received.

 

[bakepl]

until the service battery reaches (or is drained to) a set voltage point which will allow it to still be able start the vehicle if you've also drained the start battery. I think I have this correct.

I'm thinking the '(or is drained to) a set voltage' would have been correct if the 'consumer out' could have been used as intended as this was a good feature to have. If the aux battery is now to be used directly by a draw that has no minimum voltage cut-off, then the aux will also be completely drained and unable to start the vehicle. Having known what I now know about the current systems limitations I'd most certainly have installed something other than the smartpass/D250SE combination. Now that the smartpass does not have the 'consumer out' feature there's plenty of dc/dc products out there, that include solar, and are likely superior for my application at least. I'll keep it as is for now and have added a victron 'smart battery protect' to connect fridge etc directly to the Aux.

 

[parb]

I think flying Texan asked some good questions.
How does the ctek device work?
It doesn't appear to be an battery isolator?
Does it take power from the service battery to keep the starter battery constant charged?
Or does it manage the charging process from the alternator to keep the starter battery charged first from the alternator before the service battery is?

I've read the ctek manual and watched their video but im none the smarter for it. The 250 solar module is easy to understand in the manual but the 120 isn't obvious to me, and especially how it was integrated into the ineos truck is not obvious.

 

[OzyGrenie]

CTEK 120s is about 10 years old design it doesn't offer any capability other than monitoring start battery voltage. You can't change with Solar or 240v. Am replacing it with a Victron DC to DC charger immediately to protect the auxiliary battery. Although not a Lithium one will only get 50% capacity of 15amp hrs once voltage drops below 11.8 volts. So the factory offering IS NOT fit for purpose. Requires a total revision and battery replacement with a battery management system. It won't even run the very average modern 47 ltr fridge (less than 5 amps) overnight let alone camp led lights.

 

[nuclearmonkey]

Did we ever find a solution as to why das mo batteries managed to run both empty? Was it the smart pass allowing the house to kill itself trickle charging the starter? And to this point, other than solar, what is the advantage for those who have installed the d250 into the system?… added charging amperage?

 

[das mo]

Did we ever find a solution as to why das mo batteries managed to run both empty? Was it the smart pass allowing the house to kill itself trickle charging the starter? And to this point, other than solar, what is the advantage for those who have installed the d250 into the system?… added charging amperage?

Nope.

I am prepping an email to Ineos around the electric setup these days after chatting to one of them lately.
This hopefully will connect me to an engineer here in Germany to discuss my observations (including being stuck), lack of understanding what component is meant to protect the startet when all power consumption of all devices is taken from tue starter and whether it might be smarter for the campers to separate the 2 batteries and run all custom stuff, charge solar, … from the second one instead.
Have my D250 still waiting for the install toll having these things sorted as not confident messing with a setup I do not fully umherstand.

 

[Logsplitter]

CTEK 120s is about 10 years old design it doesn't offer any capability other than monitoring start battery voltage. You can't change with Solar or 240v. Am replacing it with a Victron DC to DC charger immediately to protect the auxiliary battery. Although not a Lithium one will only get 50% capacity of 15amp hrs once voltage drops below 11.8 volts. So the factory offering IS NOT fit for purpose. Requires a total revision and battery replacement with a battery management system. It won't even run the very average modern 47 ltr fridge (less than 5 amps) overnight let alone camp led lights.

I don’t have a problem with my dual battery setup. In Namibia with around 40c heat most days and last night didn’t go bellow 30c. I run an ARB47L fridge and no problems as yet.
The last few days in lodges with no option to use the mains maintenance charger or solar panels.
The 200w of solar I have with inbuilt mppt controllers work fine connected to the jump start point under the bonnet if I’m camped up for more than two nights.

 

[FlyingTexan]

CTEK 120s is about 10 years old design it doesn't offer any capability other than monitoring start battery voltage. You can't change with Solar or 240v. Am replacing it with a Victron DC to DC charger immediately to protect the auxiliary battery. Although not a Lithium one will only get 50% capacity of 15amp hrs once voltage drops below 11.8 volts. So the factory offering IS NOT fit for purpose. Requires a total revision and battery replacement with a battery management system. It won't even run the very average modern 47 ltr fridge (less than 5 amps) overnight let alone camp led lights.

I have a large fridge/freezer cooler and I ran it for two days without issue.

 

[FlyingTexan]

So what’s the smart alternator thing that isn’t connected? What does it do if connected?

 

[Logsplitter]

So what’s the smart alternator thing that isn’t connected? What does it do if connected?

I checked with I Ineos early on and this is how they have configured and all seems to work fine without smart alternator wire connected.

 

[nuclearmonkey]

I checked with I Ineos early on and this is how they have configured and all seems to work fine without smart alternator wire connected.

If you were to “accidentally” allow the fridge to deplete the starter battery to the point where it was unable to start the vehicle, do you know what the house battery is doing? (Is it trickle charging the starter and thereby depleting itself, or is it isolated completely and would therefore have enough amperage to jump start the starter battery)?

My concern is if the house battery is allowed to trickle charge the starter, and the starter has a constant draw on it, the house will compromise itself to the point of being unable to jump the starter. If the house is truly isolated however, then I don’t see a massive problem with the wiring solution from IG. Sure, not how I set my Defender’s system, but not terrible either.

 

[Logsplitter]

I’m not sure if the auxiliary battery cuts off at a certain point. I’ve not seen my battery go below 80% according to screen apart from on one occasion when it was supposedly 0% but started and went straight to 80% I carry a Noco boost just in case.

 

[das mo]

My screen showed me a battery status of 80-100% for 2 weeks in Sweden. Until one rainy morning after 3 days in the woods it was all empty.
Not even sure if the trunk powered frodge was the issue as outside temp was just few degrees C above fridge temp.
One thought is still that the continuous 24/7 doors opening / closing fact of camping with kids is sucking the batteries empty. Car getting ready to start every single time is the type of power consumption considered prio 1, right?
I did not have those 2 battery monitors installed back then, but know now that opening the car has quite an impact on the current.
To all you lucky ones out there running fridge with no issues: you plugged it into the 12V socket in the boot?

 

[Logsplitter]

My screen showed me a battery status of 80-100% for 2 weeks in Sweden. Until one rainy morning after 3 days in the woods it was all empty.
Not even sure if the trunk powered frodge was the issue as outside temp was just few degrees C above fridge temp.
One thought is still that the continuous 24/7 doors opening / closing fact of camping with kids is sucking the batteries empty. Car getting ready to start every single time is the type of power consumption considered prio 1, right?
I did not have those 2 battery monitors installed back then, but know now that opening the car has quite an impact on the current.
To all you lucky ones out there running fridge with no issues: you plugged it into the 12V socket in the boot?

My fridge is connected directly to main battery and when camping we only close doors to first click so never fully shut and doesn’t initiate interior lights or ecu We only fully shut and lock as little as possible to save battery