Power steering noise

Eric.S. · Jun 10, 2023

Hello everyone

I was finally able to pick up my grenadier yesterday

Unfortunately, I noticed at home that my power steering makes a strange noise. I think it's not a normal noise, or? The filling level in the container was at maximum with the engine warm but switched off. The German instructions do not say exactly in which condition the oil should be checked. Does anyone have an idea? I tried to post a video but I always see the file is too big (7mb)
Thank you

Zimm · Jun 22, 2024

[ Adam ] said:
Normal

I think the word common and normal may not be interchangeable here. That’s likely why some people are upset. It was common for uzj100 transfer cases to make excessive noise and if a buyer complained enough before 70k they got a new one, as it was some sort of shim issue and could eventually fail. A TSB they so politely didn’t advertise. I just rolled with it. I should have bitched like these guys. I found out around 120… it never failed though. An excessively noisy mechanical part isn’t normal and NVH could indicate a longevity issue. I kinda doubt they heard these squealing away when testing parts chosen and and took no action to rectify it. I’m just gonna assume preproduction didn’t do this.

Maybe it’ll be TSB repair at some point if the chosen owners are lucky.

MileHigh · Jun 22, 2024

Mine is loud enough to claim that the engine is actually a turbine. I also have a 21JL and it has a similar noise, bit no where near as loud. As to some being silent, that is really crazy. Maybe it is a ‘24 model thing? While I think that the Grens bones are good, the ‘quirks’ I think will really limit its sales. Between the steering, door buttons not working, lack of garage door opener, the ‘steering’- which I think is overrated as an issue-, the long drives to dealers and lack of 3rd party garage support- and then add in that the damn steering pump thing sounds like a cat being run through a two-roll mill— for a $100k car? Quirky and capable only gets you so far. My wife has been really understanding about the IG, but the steering noise made her think that there was something wrong with the truck. The sound system isn’t good enough to forgive the pump noise, and I think the stop start is as much to silence the pump noise as to save gas.

I think it is a defect- as loud as mine is- but I’d be willing to split the cost of fixing it with a new unit- as long as I had some kind of standard that it would meet afterwards.

IdahoGrenadier · Jun 22, 2024

emax said:
But why do not all Grenadiers have this problem?

Mine is silent.

And whichever Grenadier I've seen and heard in Germany ( a few dozens): They were all silent - none had this problem.

This is it right here. Either there's something wrong with yours or something wrong with mine. It seems to be a worse problem in NA or maybe later builds. If we had the technical documents they promised us, we might be able to know what changed. Which presumably is why they went back on the promise to release the technical documents.

arakeghedzig · Jun 23, 2024

Anyone have any luck with addressing the concern with their dealer? It is so. fucking. annoying.

emax · Jun 23, 2024

Zimm said:
TSB repair

What is a "TSB repair" ?

DenisM · Jun 23, 2024

emax said:
What is a "TSB repair" ?

A repair done in response to a Technical Service Bulletin issued by Ineos Automotive...

Zimm · Jun 24, 2024

Something a manufacturer knows isn’t up to snuff, but they don’t want to spend time fixing if they don’t have to. So, they send a heads up to the dealers that If there’s an issue, they fix it. I’m not sure what goes into the decision making, but I cynically expect it’s a way of playing nice while trying to avoid a recall, or a stampede of people wanting something fixed once they find out it isn’t normal.

Jackattack13 · Jun 24, 2024

I didn't notice how loud mine was until summer weather hit us and I was cruising the coast with my windows down. If I am next to a building or another car, it is crazy loud. Whenever I am adjusting my steering it gets even louder. Crazy how much it is hidden with the windows rolled up. I am still unsure if this is normal or not. I need to see what other cars at the dealership sound like. I could see this alone being a deal breaker for some buyers, but stacked upon a list of quirks, yeah, might be enough to push the vehicle into the "Do not buy" category. I personally did not notice the sound when I was test driving initially.

Zimm · Jun 24, 2024

I think the definition of "quirk" gets a bit pushed.

I find it hard to believe this is the only car with this unit. I recall the HVAC blower motor on my 96 Gwagon shit the bed, and they wanted 700 bucks for it over 2 decades ago. It was only roll stamped with MB numbers in the MB scrip they use, but there was no way MB made their own motor. Going thru other German manufacturers parts, it looked just like a unit from VW syncro for 80 bucks or something. It turns out it was a bosch part, with a different set of resistors for fan speeds. It fit. This electric PS pump gotta be some sort of cheap part from a chinese Geely or something. Why on earth would there be a bespoke pump for a Grenadier.

outono · Jun 24, 2024

Zimm said:
I think the definition of "quirk" gets a bit pushed.

I find it hard to believe this is the only car with this unit. I recall the HVAC blower motor on my 96 Gwagon shit the bed, and they wanted 700 bucks for it over 2 decades ago. It was only roll stamped with MB numbers in the MB scrip they use, but there was no way MB made their own motor. Going thru other German manufacturers parts, it looked just like a unit from VW syncro for 80 bucks or something. It turns out it was a bosch part, with a different set of resistors for fan speeds. It fit. This electric PS pump gotta be some sort of cheap part from a chinese Geely or something. Why on earth would there be a bespoke pump for a Grenadier.

It's not bespoke, it's made by DARE Auto in China. I reached out to them, but they just pointed me back to Ineos. No idea if the exact SKU is being used in another vehicle, but hard to believe Ineos would spend the money for a low volume pump motor.

Visually, it looks quite a bit like the pumps used in Wranglers / Gladiators, but no idea if that's actually the case (they also have the same complaints about noise).

Electric Steering Pump,Electric Power Steering Pump,Electronic Power Steering System Manufacturer in China

China Electric Steering Pump,Electric Power Steering Pump manufacturer, choose the high quality Electronic Power Steering System,Electric Hydraulic Power Steering Pump, etc.

www.darepump.com

Zimm · Jun 24, 2024

outono said:
It's not bespoke, it's made by DARE Auto in China. I reached out to them, but they just pointed me back to Ineos. No idea if the exact SKU is being used in another vehicle, but hard to believe Ineos would spend the money for a low volume pump motor.

Visually, it looks quite a bit like the pumps used in Wranglers / Gladiators, but no idea if that's actually the case (they also have the same complaints about noise).

Electric Steering Pump,Electric Power Steering Pump,Electronic Power Steering System Manufacturer in China

China Electric Steering Pump,Electric Power Steering Pump manufacturer, choose the high quality Electronic Power Steering System,Electric Hydraulic Power Steering Pump, etc.

www.darepump.com

Thats only 250 friggin bucks, not 2500... If that's the same mounting bracket, or fits the same, wtf is someone with a horny cat wailing in their engine waiting for? Swap it.

I havent heard a wrangler with an issue. Or a Gren for that matter. I'm just taking people word for it.

IdahoGrenadier · Jun 24, 2024

Zimm said:
Thats only 250 friggin bucks, not 2500... If that's the same mounting bracket, or fits the same, wtf is someone with a horny cat wailing in their engine waiting for? Swap it.

I'm not swapping a part that's under warranty out without access to technical manuals. Hence, you know, the frustration people are having. Can't even get specs on the CHF.

Zimm · Jun 24, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
I'm not swapping a part that's under warranty out without access to technical manuals. Hence, you know, the frustration people are having.

I've never had a truck with an electric PS pump, but, the hardest part about PS pumps I've swapped can be the location.

Here's the thing... They are telling people they aren't swapping them as long as they aren't failing... So, they don't see it as a warranty issue. At that point, you have to decide if you want to live with a noisy 90g truck or not. I'm a not kinda person, and unless there's something I'm unaware of like a chip that need programmed, a PS pump doesn't sound much like tech manual kinda thing. In fact I'd guess it's easier than a traditional pump.

outono · Jun 24, 2024

Zimm said:
I've never had a truck with an electric PS pump, but, the hardest part about PS pumps I've swapped can be the location.

Here's the thing... They are telling people they aren't swapping them as long as they aren't failing... So, they don't see it as a warranty issue. At that point, you have to decide if you want to live with a noisy 90g truck or not. I'm a not kinda person, and unless there's something I'm unaware of like a chip that need programmed, a PS pump doesn't sound much like tech manual kinda thing. In fact I'd guess it's easier than a traditional pump.

I'm fairly certain Ineos' software validates most electronic components attached to the harness. That means you won't be able to just swap whatever you want into the vehicle and be on your way. A good example of this challenge is what @Tinki is going through with his inverter retrofit. He's got the whole thing wired up with Ineos parts, but the software won't let him make use of it because he's missing a module (or something else).

Skydance · Jun 24, 2024

I can confirm that the new 24 plate courtesy car I’ve got my driveway doesn’t have the squealing noise. So it’s definitely not normal. I’ve opened up the engine bay and the steering fluid still weeps out. The steering on this compared to mine is lot sharper, maybe a bit too sharp.

outono · Jun 24, 2024

Skydance said:
I can confirm that the new 24 plate courtesy car I’ve got my driveway doesn’t have the squealing noise. So it’s definitely not normal. I’ve opened up the engine bay and the steering fluid still weeps out. The steering on this compared to mine is lot sharper, maybe a bit too sharp.

Can you snap a photo of the pump motor? Im curious if the sticker on it has a diff part # that mine.

Clark Kent · Jun 25, 2024

outono said:
Can you snap a photo of the pump motor? Im curious if the sticker on it has a diff part # that mine.

For the discussion, here's a couple of partial PNs from my MY23. It's hard to get good pics in-situ.
VIN #1886. I think the build month was Feb 2023.

I do wonder when does an operating characteristic cross over to a fault? The electric motor and pump assembly appears to be a 1000 watt 83 amp 12v brushless DC motor driving a pump rated at 12MPa (1740psi) and 11 litres/min flow. One of these units. High pressure and low flow. That's not going to be quiet without some acoustic insulation.
If a significant sample of vehicles all make approximately the same noise then it's normal, even if normal is regarded by some as excessive because we all have a different tolerance for noise. If individual vehicles are outside the bounds of normal for a sample of vehicles then those individual vehicles have a fault. There may be some variation between PNs and batches due to product improvement or a change in specs.

Tom109 · Jun 25, 2024

Maybe we should all get the free NIOSH sound level app, then whenever N+1 Grenadiers get together, compare pump noise levels?

I would be interested to see comparison data from UK/EU/AU/NA…

Jackattack13 · Jun 25, 2024

Tom109 said:
Maybe we should all get the free NIOSH sound level app, then whenever N+1 Grenadiers get together, compare pump noise levels?

I would be interested to see comparison data from UK/EU/AU/NA…

That's a good idea. I will measure it when I get home from my business trip. I also want to compare dealer vehicles.

NQ94 · Jun 25, 2024

Pumps create flow the load and hose restrictions at the other end, the steering box, creates the pressure. The pump will be capable of delivering 11lpm at 12Mpa but the steering system only runs at 110Mpa as per stamped on the steer box ID plate and uses less flow. If the pump flow and pressure is exceeded the driver will feel it through the steering. The vehicles with noise need a set of gauges and a flow meter put in the system and tested. Does the return hose from the steering box go back to the reservior or return to pump through a cooler or pipes in the radiator air flow? Does the noise change with ambient temperatures or from when the car is cold to operating temperature? The issue could be as simple as hot low viscosity oil and a change of fluid to a higher viscosity comparable fluid may be all that is needed. There are anti squeal additives available for some hydraulic systems.

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