Power steering noise

[Eric.S.]

Hello everyone I was finally able to pick up my grenadier yesterday Unfortunately, I noticed at home that my power steering makes a strange noise. I think it's not a normal noise, or? The filling level in the container was at maximum with the engine warm but switched off. The German instructions do not say exactly in which condition the oil should be checked. Does anyone have an idea? I tried to post a video but I always see the file is too big (7mb)
Thank you

 

[fredp45069]

I am struggling with this as mine certainly makes the same defining sound and yet so do many other Grenadiers I've seen at my dealer. The dealer did take the issue up with Ineos who declared it 'normal'. I can't think of another vehicle I have heard with such a loud squeal from the power steering pump. It may be 'normal' for Ineos but I am fairly sure that does not make it 'right'. I would replace the pump out of pocket if I believed it would eliminate or even decrease the squeal.

Dealer: “The power steering pump(GRA-4B23-038380) you're requesting is $2,275.64 + tax.
This would have to be ordered from the UK and may take 45-60 days transit time.”

 

[emax]

certainly makes the same defining sound and yet so do many other Grenadiers I've seen

If that is the case, then it is obviously a series defect in a poorly designed or built oil pump.

And you can't get rid of it by simply calling it "normal."

 

[emax]

Dealer: “The power steering pump(GRA-4B23-038380) you're requesting is $2,275.64 + tax.
This would have to be ordered from the UK and may take 45-60 days transit time.”

If it is a series defect, ordering a new oil pump that is also defective will not help.

 

[bradb622]

Wow. That’s an expensive pump. I withdraw my solution of simply buying another. I get that some people view this as ‘normal’ or that it doesn’t bother everyone. At the same time, others are reporting no noise or minimal noise - so there’s an inconsistency here. I think it’s fair as Grenadier owners to ask why.

 

[Skydance]

Has anyone had the steering fluid completely changed or had the system aired? Rather than the dealer keeps saying it’s normal. How do you let out the trapped air? My dealer hasn’t even attempted this.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Probably a silly question. For those that are suffering with this noise. Have you tried a general search on google? Hard to believe this would be unique to Ineos only. Possibly someone else has the answer ie, bleeding, oil change, belts, whatever! Google might at least point to some form of way forward.

 

[Skydance]

Probably a silly question. For those that are suffering with this noise. Have you tried a general search on google? Hard to believe this would be unique to Ineos only. Possibly someone else has the answer ie, bleeding, oil change, belts, whatever! Google might at least point to some form of way forward.

Currently searching and educating myself as we speak, I’m not a mechanic. I just find it weird that not everyone has it and yet dealers says it normal. I’ve driven a few courtesy vehicles and all have it.

Don’t you have the squeeling noise like in the video above particularly when it’s stationary?

 

[Cheshire cat]

Hi Skydance
Not that I have ever noticed. Where are you based? Are there any other members near you for a quick comparison?

 

[NQ94]

Listening to some of the videos the noise is very common with hydraulic systems running gear pumps both electrically driven pumps and engine driven. Reading the specifications from an earlier post, the pump is a brushless DC motor, likely with digital control, and a gear hydraulic pump. These pumps will be operating at near full relief pressure and can produce the most noise during steering cycle while the car is moving at its slowest and will go into bypass, over relief or electronically controlled pump derate at full lock. The pressure required to operate the power steer and noise will decrease controlled electronically as the car increases speed and require less steering assistance. Nearly every engine belt driven power steer system in cars use a vane type pump with a directly mounted reservoir which is generally quieter then a gear pump and a remote reservoir . There will be tolerances in the pump and the relief valving and the steer box valving so there is going to be some variance in pressures from vehicle to vehicle. A slight pressure variance in a hydraulic system from relief and bypass adjustments can be enough to increase pump or valve noise. Being a simple vehicle power steer system these valves will be non adjustable and likely to be very basic in design ie not temperature compensated or pilot controlled. Other areas the pump causing excessive pump noise is reservoir level too low, air being pulled in on the pump through the suction hose or reservoir joints due bad or lose connection, excessive turbulence in the reservoir from returning oil especially with low oil or and in some instances not enough reservoir pressure to maintain good pump fluid delivery under some operating conditions.
The noise seems to be an issue not limited to Ineos but other brands with electro-hydraulic power steering pumps. There videos on YT for electric power steer pumps in conversions and factory installs.

View: https://youtu.be/e_qf0UJFYSk?si=yy3WSIjFveFGrS5w

 

[Skydance]

Listening to some of the videos the noise is very common with hydraulic systems running gear pumps both electrically driven pumps and engine driven. Reading the specifications from an earlier post, the pump is a brushless DC motor, likely with digital control, and a gear hydraulic pump. These pumps will be operating at near full relief pressure and can produce the most noise during steering cycle while the car is moving at its slowest and will go into bypass, over relief or electronically controlled pump derate at full lock. The pressure required to operate the power steer and noise will decrease controlled electronically as the car increases speed and require less steering assistance. Nearly every engine belt driven power steer system in cars use a vane type pump with a directly mounted reservoir which is generally quieter then a gear pump and a remote reservoir . There will be tolerances in the pump and the relief valving and the steer box valving so there is going to be some variance in pressures from vehicle to vehicle. A slight pressure variance in a hydraulic system from relief and bypass adjustments can be enough to increase pump or valve noise. Being a simple vehicle power steer system these valves will be non adjustable and likely to be very basic in design ie not temperature compensated or pilot controlled. Other areas the pump causing excessive pump noise is reservoir level too low, air being pulled in on the pump through the suction hose or reservoir joints due bad or lose connection, excessive turbulence in the reservoir from returning oil especially with low oil or and in some instances not enough reservoir pressure to maintain good pump fluid delivery under some operating conditions.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[oliverwood]

Hello everyone I was finally able to pick up my grenadier yesterday Unfortunately, I noticed at home that my power steering makes a strange noise. I think it's not a normal noise, or? The filling level in the container was at maximum with the engine warm but switched off. The German instructions do not say exactly in which condition the oil should be checked. Does anyone have an idea? I tried to post a video but I always see the file is too big (7mb)
Thank you

This is the noise mine has started to make. Normally after a while driving. It seems to come from the drives side (Uk) front wheel arch area.

 

[parb]

Is power steering hydraulic and not electrical?
I find that unusual in modern cars, usually oems use electric ps units to reduce emissions associated with a hydraulic system for epa emissions requirements.

 

[Jackattack13]

Mine makes the same high pitched noise at idle as seen in the video. Figured it was normal.

 

[dreamalaska]

Is power steering hydraulic and not electrical?
I find that unusual in modern cars, usually oems use electric ps units to reduce emissions associated with a hydraulic system for epa emissions requirements.

The system is hydraulic but the fluid is run through an electric DC pump powered by the alternator. There isn’t a traditional power steering pump run by a belt that’s powered by the crankshaft.

 

[Skydance]

This is the noise mine has started to make. Normally after a while driving. It seems to come from the drives side (Uk) front wheel arch area.

Sounds like it’s coming from the front brakes or bearings.

 

[Skydance]

Sounds like it’s coming from the front brakes or bearings.

Or I’m thinking it could be a aluminium pipe rubbing on the drive shaft.

 

[oliverwood]

Or I’m thinking it could be a aluminium pipe rubbing on the drive shaft.

Thanks for the pointers.
do some investigation this weekend. Does seem to be slowly getting more often. Doesn’t seem to relate to steering, speed, acceleration or braking. Does happened straight away and seems to be when driven for a while. I’ll let you know what I find.

 

[Skydance]

Thanks for the pointers.
do some investigation this weekend. Does seem to be slowly getting more often. Doesn’t seem to relate to steering, speed, acceleration or braking. Does happened straight away and seems to be when driven for a while. I’ll let you know what I find.

I came across this. Might be worth having a look.

Thread 'Scraping noise from Front driver's side wheel well'
https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/scraping-noise-from-front-drivers-side-wheel-well.12415072/

 

[Brendang]

If you learn anything I would be very grateful to hear it as Im sure others would too. This is really my biggest hang-up because I otherwise love the vehicle.

Every Grenadier in my dealer has that sound. I have one of the first 50 in SA and they all have that sound. Normal … they say

 

[GN4HIR]

Ok, I know people are going to call me 'crazy' but I'm going to throw this out and if the crazy fits, so be it. I think I'm a victim of mass hysteria.

Not always, but more often than not, I get a loud-ish sort of whiny sound that I associated with the PS pump. After all, everyone has a case of the loud PS pump, right? The sound kind of reminds me of the vacuum at the car wash. The sound emanates from directly behind the passenger side headlight (LHD) which is where the PS pump is located. So far, so good. Everyone has it, so what...

Ok, here is the crazy part, in my case I'm pretty sure it isn't the PS pump. However, because there is SO MUCH TALK about PS pump sounds, I just assumed my noise, given its location, was the PS pump. But, when I turn off the AC compressor, the sound goes away. Turn the AC back on and the sound returns. How could that be, the two systems are not related. I now believe what I thought was the PS pump, is actually the electric fan attached to the back of the small radiator below the PS pump.

I'm not saying that PS pumps don't make noise. I'm just saying, I assumed my sound was PS pump noise and it isn't. I may be a lone dolt but there may be others out there laboring under the same misconception.