Steering and suspension geometry setting details

Nick Turley · Sep 19, 2023

Where may I find the setting for my new Grenadier steering geometry.
Mine was delivered with steering wheel offset. I would rather do it myself to make sure it is correct.

moosetown · Sep 27, 2023

You don't need full geometry specs to realign just the wheel. Look up how to adjust a drag link and then figure out how to adjust the Grenadier's.

ECrider · Sep 28, 2023

if it's as simple as the Wrangler would be nice. Will take a look later this wend.

View: https://youtu.be/Y2kQjbb3Qoc

ECrider · Sep 28, 2023

Different from the jeep's but reckon it's the same / same. I presume the two silver nuts are locking ones and you meed back them off to then move the black collar in the middle?

grenadierboy · Sep 28, 2023

It seems many owners have the same issue. My steering wheel is also a little off centre.

It's fairly easy to adjust & I will probably ask the agent to do this when I go back to get the software update.

Basically, on all solid axle cars (like the Grenadier), the steering is performed by a Drag link attached to the front wheels.
The drag link is moved side-to-side via a steering box (and of course the steering wheel in your hands!.

The steering box is connected to the drag link by a Pitman arm and a "Sleeve".

It's the Sleeve that can be adjusted which in turn adjusts the Pitman arm position of the steering wheel relative to the position of the drag link without impacting the alignment of the front wheels.

Probably a 30 minute job but much easier if your Grenadier is on a hoist.

ECrider · Sep 29, 2023

grenadierboy said:
It seems many owners have the same issue. My steering wheel is also a little off centre.

It's fairly easy to adjust & I will probably ask the agent to do this when I go back to get the software update.

Basically, on all solid axle cars (like the Grenadier), the steering is performed by a Drag link attached to the front wheels.
The drag link is moved side-to-side via a steering box (and of course the steering wheel in your hands!.

The steering box is connected to the drag link by a Pitman arm and a "Sleeve".

It's the Sleeve that can be adjusted which in turn adjusts the Pitman arm position of the steering wheel relative to the position of the drag link without impacting the alignment of the front wheels.

Probably a 30 minute job but much easier if your Grenadier is on a hoist.

Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!

hopefulkiwi · Sep 29, 2023

ECrider said:
Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!

you arent changing the angle of the wheels you are moving the sleeve to the left or right and that turns the steering wheel a degree ot three .Having said that i dont know where the steering angle sensors are and what/how they measure

ECrider · Sep 29, 2023

hopefulkiwi said:
you arent changing the angle of the wheels you are moving the sleeve to the left or right and that turns the steering wheel a degree ot three .Having said that i dont know where the steering angle sensors are and what/how they measure

yes that's my fear, not changing the wheel alignment but cocking up the steering sensor and therefore knock on effect to the ABS sensors and perhaps more.
Hopefully no dramas but just thinking aloud.

grenadierboy · Sep 29, 2023

ECrider said:
Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!

I agree that could be an issue - another reason to get a technician at the agent to do it

Jean Mercier · Sep 29, 2023

grenadierboy said:
I agree that could be an issue - another reason to get a technician at the agent to do it

If he reads the maintenance instructions before performing the task ...

hopefulkiwi · Sep 30, 2023

i dont think its that complex.I think many many vehicles have steering angle sensors/inputs. Its not unrealistic to have the steering wheel centred when the wheels are pointing straight ahead. Every tyre place i have ever been to does it!

moosetown · Sep 30, 2023

Adjusting the drag link length is the typical way to do this and should not cause issues with the sensors. Modern 4x4s usually consider the centered steering wheel as what is center. It doesn't have any idea what is going on with steering angle after the box, from the sector shaft to the pitman, to the drag link, to the knuckle.

To adjust the drag link, I assume you would need to loosen those two jam nuts and then twist the section between them, each direction will either shorten or lengthen it. Have someone watch the wheel and tell you once it's straight. Depending on the steering ratio it will probably need only a few turns.

joejet · Oct 18, 2023

I have the info!!

AWo · Oct 18, 2023

Very Interesting! The rear axle allows -25' (toe out). Toe in at the rears axle is normal for cars as it stabilizes the drive. It has normally a larger value than toe in at the front axle, same here. Beam axles do have zero or toe in.
But toe out at the rear axle is usually found in motor sports as you need to be an experienced driver. I will calculate the Millimeters -25' means at home.

With toe out at the front axle the car will understeer, but toe out at the rear axle will support the tail to break out as the outer wheel rules and it will point slightly outside the line you need to follow in a curve.

AWo

grenadierboy · Oct 18, 2023

joejet said:
I have the info!!
View attachment 7830023

Print out & give it to your wheel alignment shop when needed as they probably will not have the Grenadier in their "system"

AWo · Oct 18, 2023

grenadierboy said:
Print out & give it to your wheel alignment shop when needed as they probably will not have the Grenadier in their "system"

What should they align in that shop? The only thing you can alter is the toe in / toe out setting. Thatcan easily be set at home. All other values are fixed. These values might show the tolerances accepted (maybe for lifting the car) but you can't set them, as these are beam axles.

However, lifting the car via the suspension will alter these values The caster will get less what you will feel in the steering, the camber will change and the toe stting will change. You can see these changes after about 2000 km at your wheels (if you hav eexxagerated it or did it wrong).

Lifting the car very high will also increase stress. Just take a stick (= radius arms) and push it over uneven ground in front of you. The more you raise the stick the more problems you get. That will apply to the front axle and its radius arms). The rear axle ist like pulling the stick behind you over uneven ground, it just follows...

BTW. when the toe setting is wrong, you do not notice that at the steering wheel. The wheels will always align them self so that the forces are balanced out. If the steering wheel is not in the middle while driving straight, you need to check the setting of the steering rod. You do not want your sensors which are usually located behind the steering wheel to sense a permanent drive through a curve.

AWo

Clark Kent · Oct 18, 2023

AWo said:
What should they align in that shop? The only thing you can alter is the toe in / toe out setting....
AWo

That was my understanding also, but then I saw these eccentric bolts on the rear attachment for the lower control arms. This suggests there may be some scope for castor adjustment. Unclear without an alignment procedure.

AWo · Oct 18, 2023

Clark Kent said:
That was my understanding also, but then I saw these eccentric bolts on the rear attachment for the lower control arms. This suggests there may be some scope for castor adjustment. Unclear without an alignment procedure.

Yes, in deed...
....a modern car....is that necessary? New best practice?

AWo

joejet · Oct 18, 2023

well the workshop manual has a tiny bit more info

ECrider · Oct 18, 2023

joejet said:
well the workshop manual has a tiny bit more info
View attachment 7830047 View attachment 7830048 View attachment 7830049 View attachment 7830050
View attachment 7830051

where in the name of '....holy workshop hacking' are you getting this black magic from?

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Steering and suspension geometry setting details

Nick Turley

moosetown

ECrider

ECrider

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grenadierboy

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hopefulkiwi

ECrider

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Jean Mercier

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hopefulkiwi

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joejet

AWo

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AWo

Clark Kent

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