The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Steering and suspension geometry setting details

Nick Turley

Grenadier Owner
Local time
4:17 PM
Joined
Sep 19, 2023
Messages
5
Reaction score
19
Location
Halifax, UK
Where may I find the setting for my new Grenadier steering geometry.
Mine was delivered with steering wheel offset. I would rather do it myself to make sure it is correct.
 
Local time
11:17 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
78
Reaction score
119
Location
SF Bay Area, California
You don't need full geometry specs to realign just the wheel. Look up how to adjust a drag link and then figure out how to adjust the Grenadier's.
 

ECrider

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:17 PM
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
5,582
Location
UK
Different from the jeep's but reckon it's the same / same. I presume the two silver nuts are locking ones and you meed back them off to then move the black collar in the middle?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9814.jpeg
    IMG_9814.jpeg
    234.1 KB · Views: 167
  • IMG_9813.jpeg
    IMG_9813.jpeg
    342.2 KB · Views: 145
  • IMG_9811.jpeg
    IMG_9811.jpeg
    168.4 KB · Views: 234

grenadierboy

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:17 AM
Joined
Apr 6, 2022
Messages
1,812
Reaction score
3,305
Location
Armadale Australia
It seems many owners have the same issue. My steering wheel is also a little off centre.

It's fairly easy to adjust & I will probably ask the agent to do this when I go back to get the software update.

Basically, on all solid axle cars (like the Grenadier), the steering is performed by a Drag link attached to the front wheels.
The drag link is moved side-to-side via a steering box (and of course the steering wheel in your hands!.

The steering box is connected to the drag link by a Pitman arm and a "Sleeve".

It's the Sleeve that can be adjusted which in turn adjusts the Pitman arm position of the steering wheel relative to the position of the drag link without impacting the alignment of the front wheels.

Probably a 30 minute job but much easier if your Grenadier is on a hoist.
 

ECrider

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:17 PM
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
5,582
Location
UK
It seems many owners have the same issue. My steering wheel is also a little off centre.

It's fairly easy to adjust & I will probably ask the agent to do this when I go back to get the software update.

Basically, on all solid axle cars (like the Grenadier), the steering is performed by a Drag link attached to the front wheels.
The drag link is moved side-to-side via a steering box (and of course the steering wheel in your hands!.

The steering box is connected to the drag link by a Pitman arm and a "Sleeve".

It's the Sleeve that can be adjusted which in turn adjusts the Pitman arm position of the steering wheel relative to the position of the drag link without impacting the alignment of the front wheels.

Probably a 30 minute job but much easier if your Grenadier is on a hoist.
Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!
 
Local time
5:17 AM
Joined
May 25, 2023
Messages
64
Reaction score
87
Location
NZ
Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!
you arent changing the angle of the wheels you are moving the sleeve to the left or right and that turns the steering wheel a degree ot three .Having said that i dont know where the steering angle sensors are and what/how they measure
 

ECrider

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:17 PM
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
5,582
Location
UK
you arent changing the angle of the wheels you are moving the sleeve to the left or right and that turns the steering wheel a degree ot three .Having said that i dont know where the steering angle sensors are and what/how they measure
yes that's my fear, not changing the wheel alignment but cocking up the steering sensor and therefore knock on effect to the ABS sensors and perhaps more.
Hopefully no dramas but just thinking aloud.
 

grenadierboy

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:17 AM
Joined
Apr 6, 2022
Messages
1,812
Reaction score
3,305
Location
Armadale Australia
Just thinking aloud - considering the vehicle has a steering wheel angle sensor which is likely connected to the ABS system, i.e all four wheels registering 30mph and wheel sensor measure 0 degrees all fine and dandy. However do you think that by changing the 'sleeve' does it in anyway effect the steering wheel sensor. I just envisage turning wheel to go around a corner and one front wheel measures 29mph and the other 30mph and if the steering sensor does not measure a 2/3/5 degree off-centre then it's going to send the ABS sensors potty?

Or do we think just my shifting the sleeve that this has no effect on the steering angle sensor?

Perhaps I'm over thinking this but these modern cars sensors are not my forte!
I agree that could be an issue - another reason to get a technician at the agent to do it
 
Local time
5:17 AM
Joined
May 25, 2023
Messages
64
Reaction score
87
Location
NZ
i dont think its that complex.I think many many vehicles have steering angle sensors/inputs. Its not unrealistic to have the steering wheel centred when the wheels are pointing straight ahead. Every tyre place i have ever been to does it!
 
Local time
11:17 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
78
Reaction score
119
Location
SF Bay Area, California
Adjusting the drag link length is the typical way to do this and should not cause issues with the sensors. Modern 4x4s usually consider the centered steering wheel as what is center. It doesn't have any idea what is going on with steering angle after the box, from the sector shaft to the pitman, to the drag link, to the knuckle.

To adjust the drag link, I assume you would need to loosen those two jam nuts and then twist the section between them, each direction will either shorten or lengthen it. Have someone watch the wheel and tell you once it's straight. Depending on the steering ratio it will probably need only a few turns.
 

AWo

Local time
5:17 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
1,977
Location
Germany
Very Interesting! The rear axle allows -25' (toe out). Toe in at the rears axle is normal for cars as it stabilizes the drive. It has normally a larger value than toe in at the front axle, same here. Beam axles do have zero or toe in.
But toe out at the rear axle is usually found in motor sports as you need to be an experienced driver. I will calculate the Millimeters -25' means at home.

With toe out at the front axle the car will understeer, but toe out at the rear axle will support the tail to break out as the outer wheel rules and it will point slightly outside the line you need to follow in a curve.

AWo
 

AWo

Local time
5:17 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
1,977
Location
Germany
Print out & give it to your wheel alignment shop when needed as they probably will not have the Grenadier in their "system"
What should they align in that shop? The only thing you can alter is the toe in / toe out setting. Thatcan easily be set at home. All other values are fixed. These values might show the tolerances accepted (maybe for lifting the car) but you can't set them, as these are beam axles.

However, lifting the car via the suspension will alter these values The caster will get less what you will feel in the steering, the camber will change and the toe stting will change. You can see these changes after about 2000 km at your wheels (if you hav eexxagerated it or did it wrong).

Lifting the car very high will also increase stress. Just take a stick (= radius arms) and push it over uneven ground in front of you. The more you raise the stick the more problems you get. That will apply to the front axle and its radius arms). The rear axle ist like pulling the stick behind you over uneven ground, it just follows...

BTW. when the toe setting is wrong, you do not notice that at the steering wheel. The wheels will always align them self so that the forces are balanced out. If the steering wheel is not in the middle while driving straight, you need to check the setting of the steering rod. You do not want your sensors which are usually located behind the steering wheel to sense a permanent drive through a curve.

AWo
 
Last edited:

Clark Kent

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
2:17 AM
Joined
Jul 26, 2022
Messages
645
Reaction score
1,658
Location
Toowoomba QLD, Australia
What should they align in that shop? The only thing you can alter is the toe in / toe out setting....
AWo
That was my understanding also, but then I saw these eccentric bolts on the rear attachment for the lower control arms. This suggests there may be some scope for castor adjustment. Unclear without an alignment procedure.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20231018_093446851.jpg
    PXL_20231018_093446851.jpg
    185.8 KB · Views: 208
  • PXL_20231018_093613649~2.jpg
    PXL_20231018_093613649~2.jpg
    249 KB · Views: 154

AWo

Local time
5:17 PM
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Messages
1,058
Reaction score
1,977
Location
Germany
That was my understanding also, but then I saw these eccentric bolts on the rear attachment for the lower control arms. This suggests there may be some scope for castor adjustment. Unclear without an alignment procedure.
Yes, in deed...
....a modern car....is that necessary? New best practice?

AWo
 
Back
Top Bottom