Vehicle rejected after 4 months off the road due to steering geometry being unroadworthy!!!

[Zimm]

Well summed up.
I am getting the feeling that most of the complaining (except for the early owners) is coming from people who made the wrong decision to purchase a Grenadier.
This vehicle is not for everyone. Doesn't make you better or worse than others.
I see people saying Ineos should change to rack & pinion steering, this means they would need to change to an independent front end.
Not what we want.
I would love the HVAC to have better settings and more adjustability but..........

Some people want

• more ground clearance < That's every vehicle.
• Airbag suspension < New one on me.
• better sound system < 556 in small spaces ="s doesn't care. Personal opinion.
• larger fuel tank < Yea, that range is stupid low. Magna musta thought it was military convoy truck.
• better fuel economy < Decade plus old engine design will get you decade old efficiency
• more power < For what? Too much power breaks things and wastes fuel.
• more torque < For what? Read above.
• different engine < Most important reason they picked this? "powered by bmw" on the hood.
• different axles < I don't get the choice myself. This will be a 100k/decade delayed issue.
• different transfer case < Why?
• different lockers < No, people just want them to go in and out.
• off road modes < Well, if all the electronics already exist, whats the point in not?
• etc etc etc < Seats with proper basic adjustments. Spare parts. Manual. Self maintenance. Service network. What was baked into the dream. etc etc etc.

Clearly what they want is a different vehicle
Or one they can modify to their own needs. < Clearly they just want the baseline of every other 80kusd car.

As you said all owners can go ahead and spend thousands on aftermarket accessories.

It looked like a quiz.

 

[landmannnn]

Actually, I would use gamble. That's why my VIN is still sitting on the lot. Once a week I tell shezimm I'm tired of looking at my screen saver, I think I've got most of the issues worked out that can be, and before I call and throw the dice, I log on to see if Ineos decided to fix what only they can fix, and instead I read of more reasons to not live 5 hours from a dealer.

We're much in the same party here from what you wrote. I think you're observation of reality was right, just not complimentary to Ineos. You're just OK with your outcome of the gamble, whereas for the amount of driving I do I'd be onto oil change 2 and having to take it to the dealer would make me bananas. And that's just one of the issues no other car has that ought not be.

I may just end up being a MY25 or 26, assuming they actually listen to their customers. I'm the weird HS chick that got dumped, but still thinks he's gonna come back in time for the prom.

Actually, I would use gamble. That's why my VIN is still sitting on the lot. Once a week I tell shezimm I'm tired of looking at my screen saver, I think I've got most of the issues worked out that can be, and before I call and throw the dice, I log on to see if Ineos decided to fix what only they can fix, and instead I read of more reasons to not live 5 hours from a dealer.

We're much in the same party here from what you wrote. I think you're observation of reality was right, just not complimentary to Ineos. You're just OK with your outcome of the gamble, whereas for the amount of driving I do I'd be onto oil change 2 and having to take it to the dealer would make me bananas. And that's just one of the issues no other car has that ought not be.

I may just end up being a MY25 or 26, assuming they actually listen to their customers. I'm the weird HS chick that got dumped, but still thinks he's gonna come back in time for the prom.

A wise man (or woman) would of course hold back on pressing that trigger for another 12 months. It is fair to say that I don't fall into that category.

I hate main dealers with a passion. With the nearest being 17 minutes away, I will still avoid them unless I really have to go there.

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

I had my steering realigned by Chandlers, Belton, Grantham. UK. It wasn’t that bad before they adjusted it, now it’s perfect. Which proves it can be done.

Same with mine, and I have a very early vin number, so one of the first batches they made. Drives fantastic off road on road and even on the motorway. Offcours, its not an SUV feeling where you can sleep during your drive at 120km/h. The higher the speed, the more you need to keep your focus on it.

 

[Tom D]

Like I said when I got mine, to me the steering feels fine, better than an old defender, 70 series or wrangler. But, if you've only ever had rack and pinion IFS vehicles its going to feel very agricultural. Mine tracks true and doesn't wander, vague? Yes, imprecise? Yes when compared with other 'cars'. but what do you expect, it's on tractor axles!
I feel sad for the OP, as his new car hasn't worked out, but I think a bit more research would have steered him towards something else.

 

[Zimm]

A wise man (or woman) would of course hold back on pressing that trigger for another 12 months. It is fair to say that I don't fall into that category.

I hate main dealers with a passion. With the nearest being 17 minutes away, I will still avoid them unless I really have to go there.

17 min, I'd be all in too. My impulse buying would definitely overrun my logic and observation at that point.

 

[Zimm]

Like I said when I got mine, to me the steering feels fine, better than an old defender, 70 series or wrangler. But, if you've only ever had rack and pinion IFS vehicles its going to feel very agricultural. Mine tracks true and doesn't wander, vague? Yes, imprecise? Yes when compared with other 'cars'. but what do you expect, it's on tractor axles!
I feel sad for the OP, as his new car hasn't worked out, but I think a bit more research would have steered him towards something else.

We just phased out our last ford E series van. Those were the benchmark for bad steering that progressed to a 2" dead center at 50k miles. But new, they were better than this. These have weird steering even compared to my lifted 40yo fj60, so people, that keep saying the complsins are from lifelong bmw318i owners are being a bit disingenuous. It's one of the first comments out of every reviewers mouth.

I'm not saying it isn't livable, that one wont acclimate, and it's even slightly correctable, I'm just saying it's weird, and the excuses given, like eliminating kickback, are BS. It's kinda baked in now, though, like the footwell hump.

 

[[ Adam ]]

We just phased out our last ford E series van. Those were the benchmark for bad steering that progressed to a 2" dead center at 50k miles. But new, they were better than this. These have weird steering even compared to my lifted 40yo fj60, so people, that keep saying the complsins are from lifelong bmw318i owners are being a bit disingenuous. It's one of the first comments out of every reviewers mouth.

I'm not saying it isn't livable, that one wont acclimate, and it's even slightly correctable, I'm just saying it's weird, and the excuses given, like eliminating kickback, are BS. It's kinda baked in now, though, like the footwell hump.

I don't expect you checked and recorded the tire pressure on the Grenadiers you've driven, but I'll bet dollars to donuts the tires were overinflated. Get behind the wheel of one set to 36psi and things change for the better.

 

[landmannnn]

17 min, I'd be all in too. My impulse buying would definitely overrun my logic and observation at that point.

Yes, popped down to have a look on a wet Tuesday. Deposit paid that afternoon, no logic, just impulse.

 

[DaBull]

We rejected our Grenadier after the vehicle was deemed unroadworthy 19/12/23 and received refund less £0.76/mile 11/4/24 having been VOR for nearly 4 months.
Water ingress is one minor issue.
Steering geometry design is up the spout. And unable to resolve to be safe within Ineos stated tolerances.

No after sales interaction.

No solution after 4 months is a complete joke.

There is a gagging order on all members of the press internationally and people gifted with the use of one of Ineos’s vehicles.

Disappointing considering Magna design and
manufacture, So much for the bullshit of German or Austrian engineering and French manufacturing.

No parts back up, will not replace a radiator with a locally manufactured hose so they have to steel a part off a showroom car after two weeks off the road.

Oh and by the way if your battery fails you won’t see a replacement for many weeks. Even the batteries are failing.

Door window seals shrink so they might eventually replace them and you guessed it they shrink again. No engineering input as they do not have an engineer in the UK or any other country in the World inputting to re-engineer the parts failure in the first instance to resolve any other customer having no further issues from their incompetence.

Steer clear if your steering is safe to use on a tarmac road which it made for! Do not fall for the bullshit as our vehicle was not fit for purpose or safe to drive on the UK highways.

It took them over a month to collect it after having paid the refund. There is either a big scrap heap of these Grenadiers or some other sucker will think he’s got a bargain.

I had a full engineering investigation arrived out by a vehicle engineering specialist investigator.

Hi MalcolmT, I get it, you may have received a lemon and dealing with that can leave one sour. The vast majority of us received oranges. Some of us received lemons and simply made lemonade. I hope your next vehicle gives you joy. Best of luck with your next vehicle. DaBull

 

[Zimm]

I don't expect you checked and recorded the tire pressure on the Grenadiers you've driven, but I'll bet dollars to donuts the tires were overinflated. Get behind the wheel of one set to 36psi and things change for the better.

No I did not, I generally would expect the dealership to have them set correctly for the demo rig. Decreasing pressure though would elongate the contact patch a tad maybe making it steer a bit slower. The only differences between 30# and 45# I really notice on a 35" is the harshness first and foremost, and the steering maybe a little lighter at the higher pressure. I've written before, this isn't a track 911. It's a chunky girl on solids. if someone feels a huge change with 8 psi on load range E sidewalls, there may be a little motivated perception kicking in. The contact patch and sidewall tire roll just doesn't change all that much with a 10psi swing on meats like these.

 

[[ Adam ]]

No I did not, I generally would expect the dealership to have them set correctly for the demo rig. Decreasing pressure though would elongate the contact patch a tad maybe making it steer a bit slower. The only differences between 30# and 45# I really notice on a 35" is the harshness first and foremost, and the steering maybe a little lighter at the higher pressure. I've written before, this isn't a track 911. It's a chunky girl on solids. if someone feels a huge change with 8 psi on load range E sidewalls, there may be a little motivated perception kicking in. The contact patch and sidewall tire roll just doesn't change all that much with a 10psi swing on meats like these.

I'll respectfully disagree and encourage you to take a drive at some point in one that has been configured correctly.

 

[parb]

Share the report. Or at least make the key finding in the report your core argument. It should be some key observation about safety supported by measurable data. This way other owners can confirm it refute your finding and that benefits us all.

Short of this you come across as mostly whining without much substance behind your argument.

 

[Max]

Totally agree parb.​

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Vehicle rejected after 4 months off the road due to steering geometry being unroadworthy!!!​

I have been on the forum for some time now and if I stated the above without any detailed references, I would expect to be sin-binned and a post scratched...It is a fairly serious accusation without backup, in my view.

 

[Trialmaster]

Share the report. Or at least make the key finding in the report your core argument. It should be some key observation about safety supported by measurable data. This way other owners can confirm it refute your finding and that benefits us all.

Short of this you come across as mostly whining without much substance behind your argument.

Parb & Max - you have hit the nail on the head. OP was looking for sympathy with his outlandish statements and then cannot back them up with the information he mentions.

Reveal the aforementioned info, to substantiate your argument and then we have something to work on. Unfortunately, I think we have scared him away though and that's the end of it!

 

[parb]

I think it's important to make a distinction between what is subjective and what is objective.

Here the poster made a claim about an independent objective subject matter expert review finding the vehicle being "unroadworthy". I take this to to mean unsafe, and that matters to me. it should be easy to share the actual finding so others can confirm it with their vehicles.

In there truly is expert analysis determining a safety defect then regulators should be notified so a defect investigation can be started. fI the OP doesn't know how to do that, contact me privately as I can assist with getting a report to NHTSA to report a safety defect.

But... please share if it's a real issue with all vehicles. If this is a lemon and an issue with only your vehicle and no one else's share that too, we all benefit from your information. Lemons happen, they generally are more due to a service process going sideways than a core problem in the vehicle design. I get the impression this is what has happened here.

In terms of Ineos ability to implement a gag on the media I think you are completely being silly. There is no mechanism for ineos to block media except not providing access to vehicles but given the amount of cars available. journalist can use consumers cars to verify your claim without Ineos being able to do anything about it. You can call any journalist and let them have access to yours and what is Ineos going to do to block that? There is no legal mechanism that prohibit you from doing whatever you want with your car including letting journalists use it to write an article. Most of the recent reviews have been based on consumer vehicles and without Ineos awareness or support.

If there is truth to your safety claim the press will be all over that story as it's a scoop.

But until you provide some data or at least a hint on what is actually wrong it is hard to even have a discussion.

 

[bbq4133]

Scrolled through 4 pages, still don't see the engineering report. Is it real?

 

[ADVAW8S]

Fugazi

 

[Shaky]

Scrolled through 4 pages, still don't see the engineering report. Is it real?

Whether it is or it isn’t, I don’t think we will be seeing it anyway buddy.

Who is to say what is going on, but it certainly gives the impression that the OP is/was looking to vent their spleen, and not a lot more. Some simple bullet points on the defects would be simple to disclose, but even that seems a bridge to far

 

[bbq4133]

Whether it is or it isn’t, I don’t think we will be seeing it anyway buddy.

Who is to say what is going on, but it certainly gives the impression that the OP is/was looking to vent their spleen, and not a lot more. Some simple bullet points on the defects would be simple to disclose, but even that seems a bridge to far

Yep. Don't think it's particularly cool to post a thread fearmongering about safety and claiming it's backed up by an independent, objective, expert analysis and then making a bunch of excuses as to why it cannot be shared.

 

[Zak Smith]

Gag order on the entire press? LOL.

Post the engineering report for all to see, have a youtube personality who wants clicks to repost it and interview you about it.

Maybe it stands up, maybe it doesn’t.