(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

das mo · Jul 23, 2023

Hi all.

Car is dead.

Battery was at 50% 2 hours back.
We now packed all together and car does not start.

Is there an Ineos support hotline I can call on a Sunday?

Thanks

Jean Mercier · Aug 22, 2023

Yesterday my two ordered Chinese battery monitoring stuff arrived: each 18.50 euro.

Why I had to allow the "correct location" to be used by the app on my phone is still a mystery for me, only Mao knows.

I only tested the battery voltage, not the other possibilities (cranking test, charging test).

My car didn't move now for nearly two weeks for different non-technical reasons.
This is the picture of my battery status before installing the devices:

Of course, key in, ignition on.

Here some screenshots from my phone, after installing:

Screenshot_20230822_155425_Battery Monitor.jpg

Screenshot_20230822_155349_Battery Monitor.jpg

Screenshot_20230822_155617_Battery Monitor.jpg

I can input myself different names, but the devices are identified by different serial numbers.
The device also saves in it's internal memory the data of a longer period, 35 days according to the app manual.
When you move within the reach of your car this data is synchronized to your phone.
This is the overnight data of the main battery (similar for the auxiliary battery), I didn't open the doors of my car, not one time:

Screenshot_20230822_154913_Battery Monitor.jpg

There is also a nice slider to measure voltage peaks or drops at certain moments, first image of the main battery, second of the auxiliary battery, while installing, testing, etc. and opening and closing doors. First image is from the Main Battery, second from the auxiliary battery:

Screenshot_20230822_154935_Battery Monitor.jpg

Screenshot_20230822_155551_Battery Monitor.jpg

Pïty that on this chart the battery name isn't mentioned!

Evaluation:

Device works
China is watching me
battery voltage quite stable, no sensitive drop in about 24h.
state of charge seems to be (in %) the same as what the Grenadier makes of it!
Voltage measurement seems to correspond to the Grenadier (see the 12.1 Volt on the info screen, and the 12.13 lowest value of the main battery while installing)

Next steps:

crank test
charging test (with the device function)
drive test
some bastards on this forum made me spend more money. I bought a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery charger, arrived today: charge test with the CTEK.

I continue to play around without driving, but I am longing to finally do some travelling again early September, after delaying it three times now!

Miki · Aug 22, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Yesterday my two ordered Chinese battery monitoring stuff arrived: each 18.50 euro.
View attachment 7824405

Why I had to allow the "correct location" to be used by the app on my phone is still a mystery for me, only Mao knows.
View attachment 7824406
<snip>

Excellent stuff, keep up the good work...

DCPU · Aug 22, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
some bastards on this forum made me spend more money. I bought a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery charger, arrived today: charge test with the CTEK.

I think you may have just paid the favour back.

I love tech like this but probably wouldn't have bought into it without seeing it perform first. Let's see a few more of those tests and providing it doesn't start spewing magic smoke then I might be in...

Trialmaster · Aug 22, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Yesterday my two ordered Chinese battery monitoring stuff arrived: each 18.50 euro.
View attachment 7824405

Why I had to allow the "correct location" to be used by the app on my phone is still a mystery for me, only Mao knows.
View attachment 7824406

I only tested the battery voltage, not the other possibilities (cranking test, charging test).

My car didn't move now for nearly two weeks for different non-technical reasons.
This is the picture of my battery status before installing the devices:
View attachment 7824411
Of course, key in, ignition on.

Here some screenshots from my phone, after installing:
View attachment 7824408 View attachment 7824407 View attachment 7824409

I can input myself different names, but the devices are identified by different serial numbers.
The device also saves in it's internal memory the data of a longer period, 35 days according to the app manual.
When you move within the reach of your car this data is synchronized to your phone.
This is the overnight data of the main battery (similar for the auxiliary battery), I didn't open the doors of my car, not one time:
View attachment 7824410

There is also a nice slider to measure voltage peaks or drops at certain moments, first image of the main battery, second of the auxiliary battery, while installing, testing, etc. and opening and closing doors. First image is from the Main Battery, second from the auxiliary battery:
View attachment 7824412
View attachment 7824413
Pïty that on this chart the battery name isn't mentioned!

Evaluation:

Device works

China is watching me

battery voltage quite stable, no sensitive drop in about 24h.

state of charge seems to be (in %) the same as what the Grenadier makes of it!

Voltage measurement seems to correspond to the Grenadier (see the 12.1 Volt on the info screen, and the 12.13 lowest value of the main battery while installing)

Next steps:

crank test

charging test (with the device function)

drive test

some bastards on this forum made me spend more money. I bought a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery charger, arrived today: charge test with the CTEK.

I continue to play around without driving, but I am longing to finally do some travelling again early September, after delaying it three times now!

Thanks Jean - I desperately try to avoid buying Chinese, virtually impossible these days. But looks like I will be spending money on these gadgets. Thanks!

Xrford · Aug 22, 2023

These battery monitors seem to just measure voltage and thus are very limited in what info it can provide. Is anyone considering a smart shunt like the Victron Energy ip65 500A that can measure voltage,%charge, amp draw and amp charging and plot all the data? This would give a true idea of what is going on with your Aux battery.

ECrider · Aug 22, 2023

Trialmaster said:
Thanks Jean - I desperately try to avoid buying Chinese, virtually impossible these days. But looks like I will be spending money on these gadgets. Thanks!

If one in 6 people are Chinese and you have a wife and four children it would make one question whether the child eating cornflakes with chopsticks is kosher.

Lollo050968 · Aug 22, 2023

Xrford said:
These battery monitors seem to just measure voltage and thus are very limited in what info it can provide. Is anyone considering a smart shunt like the Victron Energy ip65 500A that can measure voltage,%charge, amp draw and amp charging and plot all the data? This would give a true idea of what is going on with your Aux battery.

View attachment 7824427

Nice toy, but 4 times more expensive than my monitors from Amazon (China?!).
Form my needed knowledge and use, the less than 40€ solution is OK. And if it’s 5-10% wrong, doesn‘t matter, only important that I know before the battery breakdown.

PS: My „Chinese“ is Emax, he got the August files of both batteries, to analyse and report

das mo · Aug 22, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Yesterday my two ordered Chinese battery monitoring stuff arrived: each 18.50 euro.
View attachment 7824405

Why I had to allow the "correct location" to be used by the app on my phone is still a mystery for me, only Mao knows.
View attachment 7824406

I only tested the battery voltage, not the other possibilities (cranking test, charging test).

My car didn't move now for nearly two weeks for different non-technical reasons.
This is the picture of my battery status before installing the devices:
View attachment 7824411
Of course, key in, ignition on.

Here some screenshots from my phone, after installing:
View attachment 7824408 View attachment 7824407 View attachment 7824409

I can input myself different names, but the devices are identified by different serial numbers.
The device also saves in it's internal memory the data of a longer period, 35 days according to the app manual.
When you move within the reach of your car this data is synchronized to your phone.
This is the overnight data of the main battery (similar for the auxiliary battery), I didn't open the doors of my car, not one time:
View attachment 7824410

There is also a nice slider to measure voltage peaks or drops at certain moments, first image of the main battery, second of the auxiliary battery, while installing, testing, etc. and opening and closing doors. First image is from the Main Battery, second from the auxiliary battery:
View attachment 7824412
View attachment 7824413
Pïty that on this chart the battery name isn't mentioned!

Evaluation:

Device works

China is watching me

battery voltage quite stable, no sensitive drop in about 24h.

state of charge seems to be (in %) the same as what the Grenadier makes of it!

Voltage measurement seems to correspond to the Grenadier (see the 12.1 Volt on the info screen, and the 12.13 lowest value of the main battery while installing)

Next steps:

crank test

charging test (with the device function)

drive test

some bastards on this forum made me spend more money. I bought a CTEK MXS 5.0 battery charger, arrived today: charge test with the CTEK.

I continue to play around without driving, but I am longing to finally do some travelling again early September, after delaying it three times now!

They are the same others and me are using.

Jean Mercier · Aug 22, 2023

Xrford said:
These battery monitors seem to just measure voltage and thus are very limited in what info it can provide. Is anyone considering a smart shunt like the Victron Energy ip65 500A that can measure voltage,%charge, amp draw and amp charging and plot all the data? This would give a true idea of what is going on with your Aux battery.

View attachment 7824427

OK, I agree, there are more professional solutions, and mine are toys. Doesn't measure amps indeed.
I am playing, I like that.

Your solution is worthfull, professional and costs more money.

Go ahead, once you have your car, post your findings

Tazzieman · Aug 22, 2023

das mo said:
They are the same others and me are using.

I bought one of that model 3 years ago when my old Disco alternator was playing up; played around with it a fair bit and it always seemed to give useful info (not just "voltage"), esp if the car had been sitting for a few weeks and in winter.
It's so transportable you could carry it as a basic diagnostic tool to help someone else out.

emax · Aug 22, 2023

Xrford said:
These battery monitors seem to just measure voltage and thus are very limited in what info it can provide. Is anyone considering a smart shunt like the Victron Energy ip65 500A that can measure voltage,%charge, amp draw and amp charging and plot all the data? This would give a true idea of what is going on with your Aux battery.

View attachment 7824427

That's what I have been telling since 1871.

But installing a high performance shunt properly is not trivial.

DCPU · Aug 23, 2023

Xrford said:
Is anyone considering a smart shunt like the Victron Energy ip65 500A that can measure voltage,%charge, amp draw and amp charging and plot all the data? This would give a true idea of what is going on with your Aux battery.

Have a look here:
Thread 'Victron SmartShunt 1000A install' https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/victron-smartshunt-1000a-install.12411893/

Jean Mercier · Aug 23, 2023

Yesterday I continued to play around with the Chinese voltage monitoring devices.

First image: cranking test

Screenshot_20230822_172533_Battery Monitor.jpg

According to the manual the test show OK when it is 9.6 Volt or higher.

Second test: charging test, meaning switching everything off that can be switched off (what I didn't do, I left my wireless android auto device in the USB-C port), putting headlights on and playing around with the rotation speed of the motor:

Screenshot_20230822_172621_Battery Monitor.jpg

And then I got a phone call, "please can you come to the port of Antwerp?". I said yes. That's almost 90 km one way, one hour drive, mostly motorway, speed mostly between 90km/h and 127 km/h.
Battery at start was about 12.37 Volt "60%". (See the data higher up this thread).

Results (main battery):

Screenshot_20230823_182817_Battery Monitor.jpg

the first peak around 17h is the cranking test
the second peak around 18h: I took gasoline (yes, my tank was empty: I could fill 85.18l)
the third long peak is driving to Antwerp (18h15 to 19h15)
the fourth is driving back after my assignment (21h30 to 22h30)

In fact, I find everything back in the "trip" screen of my app on my phone:

Screenshot_20230823_182909_Battery Monitor.jpg

At midnight my battery voltage was 12.8 Volt:

Screenshot_20230823_182754_Battery Monitor.jpg

And today at 18h30 it was still 12.68 Volt:

Screenshot_20230823_182928_Battery Monitor.jpg

The Auxiliary battery showed

at midnight 12.86 Volt
at 18h30 (today, therefore after 18h30) 12.74 Volt
a peak while driving at 14.98 Volt
the rest of the pattern was quite similar to the main battery.

According to my car infoscreen

state of charge was about 60% before going to Antwerp
84% when back home at 22h30 and 12.7 volt with the key in the ignition (motor off)

Jean Mercier · Aug 23, 2023

DCPU said:
Have a look here:
Thread 'Victron SmartShunt 1000A install' https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/victron-smartshunt-1000a-install.12411893/

Or you have a very good memory or you use the search function in a very efficient manner.

Anyway, @Xrford and @Arkaig (and yourself and @emax ) are indeed right to say there are better solutions. But not everyone needs those, and not everyone understands voltage, current, resistance and the relation between them.

DCPU · Aug 23, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
Or you have a very good memory or you use the search function in a very efficient manner.

Actually neither, I had one in my hands the other day. It's a chunky monkey.

Jean Mercier said:
Anyway, @Xrford and @Arkaig (and yourself and @emax ) are indeed right to say there are better solutions.

I'm not sure I'm in that camp... the detail you're providing is fantastic & I wonder if anything more is actually required or indeed once initial norms are established and understood, whether there is actually a need to see the data again, until something suggests to you that there may be an issue.

Having said that maybe I need to get a Victron, so there's at least a forum side by side comparison we can run?

emax · Aug 23, 2023

@Jean Mercier I have to clarify that I don't think that such monitors are useless. They give you quite good information. But I want the users to know about the limitations. I'm for example not convinced of the percentage readings as they rely on what the developers have assumed about voltage vs. DoD. But once you've learned to interpret the readings yourself and to be aware of the changes, they can be a good thing.

My "problem" is, that I have some personal requirements for measuring whatever you can measure. But that's just me.

DCPU · Aug 24, 2023

emax said:
That's what I have been telling since 1871.

But installing a high performance shunt properly is not trivial.

Have you looked at the Victron ones?

DCPU · Aug 24, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
not everyone understands voltage, current, resistance and the relation between them.

emax · Aug 24, 2023

DCPU said:
Have you looked at the Victron ones?

No, it's the first time I heard of them. Victron are in general serious products, and I think they are worth a try.

I do however think that the BMW sensor delivers very good data and should in combination with the alreay in the INEOS existing (and hopefully well designed) software be a high end solution. The only missing is the the long-time recording. But over time, some enthusiasts DIY OBD recorder might be able to do that.

Arkaig · Aug 24, 2023

DCPU said:
Have you looked at the Victron ones?

From FB - Aryn Abramowitch:

Added a victron shunt to monitor the AUX battery current and state of charge (no idea why there isn’t a shunt from factory!). The shunt fits perfectly onto the threaded bolts under the seat! It’s like they were put there exactly for this

Search

Search

(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

das mo

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Miki

DCPU

Trialmaster

Xrford

ECrider

Lollo050968

das mo

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Tazzieman

emax

Photo Contest Winner

DCPU

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Jean Mercier

GG#920

DCPU

emax

Photo Contest Winner

DCPU

DCPU

emax

Photo Contest Winner

Arkaig

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