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Winch or not ?

DCPU

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The hook which comes swaged on the wire rope in your photo is not a shackle.

Weights given above include the roll of wire rope, otherwise called cable.

The actual wire rope support/reel shown in your photo is pretty much useless in the field and only really good for initial shipping. Most users soon find a better way to transport, such as an old tyre.
Tirfor - Cpqi_z8WYAA1eh4.jpeg
Tirfor - D3ej2mHWAAAeYh8.jpeg
Tirfor - D5B8T0aX4AE5fai.jpeg
 
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DaveB

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The hook which comes swaged on the wire rope in your photo is not a shackle.

Weights given above include the roll of wire rope, otherwise called cable.

The actual wire rope support/reel shown in your photo is pretty much useless in the field and only really good for initial shipping. Most users soon find a better way to transport, such as an old tyre.
Not interested in discussing it further.
Have a good day
 

DCPU

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You too.

Oh and if that's your kit in the photo, I'd double check the gated/safety catch on the hook - it's not fully clear from the photo, but it looks like it has been forced outside the hook throat.

1663912917991.png
 
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I think you can let someone make you a holder mounted to towing eyes (of course two positions front and back. Eyes are different, I think) like below.
 

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bemax

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I've never weighed a shackle, especially a soft one ~ that might say all there needs to be said on that matter.

What do you mean by a roll - maybe something to have a lie down and rest on, halfway to the winch anchor point?
No. A roll to double the force
1663930684944.jpeg
 

DCPU

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Right ~ so not what DaveB thought...

A pulley/snatch block is something that would be required/desirable with either a Tirfor or a fixed vehicle winch so not unique to a Tirfor or part of a "base" kit.

Possibly more so required with a fixed vehicle winch when using just for a change of line direction.

Whilst I have one "similar" to that, I also have a couple of the cheaper, lighter swingaway snatch blocks. Again, these are relatively light.

When it comes to self recovery, it's easy to carry quite a few heavyweight supplementary items ~ ground anchors being a good example; and then there's the concern that you only get stuck because of the additional weight. Leave them at home and there's always a trip where they would have been ideal...
 

DaveB

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That is a picture from the Tirfor Catalogue I personally wouldn't own one. End of discussion please
You too.

Oh and if that's your kit in the photo, I'd double check the gated/safety catch on the hook - it's not fully clear from the photo, but it looks like it has been forced outside the hook throat.
 

emax

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It's now 56 days since I opened this thread and asked Ineos for the weight of the front winch.

The day before yesterday - almost eight weeks later, I got the answer: They say, it's "ca." 40 Kg.
 

emax

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My question was about the front winch, assume the above weight means front winch as well?
The answer is from Ineos. They said "ca.". For me, over 20% off seems a bit too much for a "ca.".

Question might be with or without rope, hook/shackle, mounting brackets and the like ... I don't know.

But that's the answer and as things stand, they have thought about it for two months. 🙃

EDIT: additional consideration
 
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ChasingOurTrunks

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Whether a winch is worth it or not depends on the type of driving a person does.

1) Highway/around town/never leaving marked, maintained roads (even dirt roads are marked and maintained in much of North America) - you'll never need it. Maybe, during recovery from emergency events like big storms, you'll use it to help others or tidy up a tree or something. Super rare and probably not worth it.

2) Weekends Off-Road/Technical Trail Running - These are known trails or routes that are run by 4x4s on a regular basis. They often have difficulty ratings, maps, and named obstacles. Some are even in pay-to-access parks, though many (like those in MOAB) are open to the public. In these environments, a winch is certainly handy, but you've got other options, like a hi-lift, a come-along, another truck in the convoy, or the device others have posted to get through the tricky bits, which are only as frequent as the difficulty of trail you chose. You also have the option of knowing if a trail is likely to require winching or not, and simply choosing a bypass or a different trail that does not require winching. Basically, you have a lot of agency in your final situation, if this is the kind of 4x4 driving you like to do, so a winch becomes much more of a "nice to have" feature if it opens you up to more trails and experiences, but isn't necessarily required and other types of recovery equipment will do.

3) Overland travel - this means there is at least some degree of going to unknown routes, typically quite remote, where other travelers are not common. In this situation, your ability to make forward progress can be non-existent without a winch; storms can wash out a road and that washout goes undiscovered for months. An early start to a rainy season can mean miles of mud tracks in every direction that you can barely drive on. And, the nature of the routes mean turning back might not be a viable option due to limited services/fuel. I don't consider a come-along or hi-lift to be a reasonable alternative in this situation, but that's mainly because of the relative efficiency of them; I've been in situations where we've needed to get winch assistance over a distance of several kilometers of mud up a very steep mountain trail. This is possible to do with a manual winching option, but really unpleasant and a huge time sink, and comes with a high risk of injury; not only is it more sets/resets of your equipment, but it's also the need to do all that hard work that we may not be accustomed to -- we're all way more likely to give ourselves a heart attack with a manual winch than we are to dance with the devil via a wayward shackle or cable (and I say that because it is easy to mitigate against a wayward shackle. Heart Attacks will sneak up on us -- we're not as young as we used to be!).

So my thoughts for the OP -- if you are in category 1, forget it, not worth it. If you are in category 2, it's probably easier to get it from the factory and have those options than it is to add it later. If you are in Option 3, I think it would be an error not to spec the winch.

All that being said, whatever recovery equipment you go for, spend some time with experts to really know how it all works -- winches, hi lifts, exhaust jacks, and more all have risks if used improperly, and improper use is super common socially. A well known YouTube tow-truck driver regularly uses his ball for recovery; he has a reason why he thinks thats OK from what I've seen. Even on the Grand Tour's latest special, there's a scene with a dicey recovery on a tow ball rather than a rated recovery point. So -- recovery gear is like a gun. It's reasonable to say "better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it and not have it" and I agree with that. But without proper knowledge, care in it's use, and effective storage, this stuff becomes more dangerous for you and those around you than it is helpful.
 

DaveB

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Whether a winch is worth it or not depends on the type of driving a person does.

1) Highway/around town/never leaving marked, maintained roads (even dirt roads are marked and maintained in much of North America) - you'll never need it. Maybe, during recovery from emergency events like big storms, you'll use it to help others or tidy up a tree or something. Super rare and probably not worth it.

2) Weekends Off-Road/Technical Trail Running - These are known trails or routes that are run by 4x4s on a regular basis. They often have difficulty ratings, maps, and named obstacles. Some are even in pay-to-access parks, though many (like those in MOAB) are open to the public. In these environments, a winch is certainly handy, but you've got other options, like a hi-lift, a come-along, another truck in the convoy, or the device others have posted to get through the tricky bits, which are only as frequent as the difficulty of trail you chose. You also have the option of knowing if a trail is likely to require winching or not, and simply choosing a bypass or a different trail that does not require winching. Basically, you have a lot of agency in your final situation, if this is the kind of 4x4 driving you like to do, so a winch becomes much more of a "nice to have" feature if it opens you up to more trails and experiences, but isn't necessarily required and other types of recovery equipment will do.

3) Overland travel - this means there is at least some degree of going to unknown routes, typically quite remote, where other travelers are not common. In this situation, your ability to make forward progress can be non-existent without a winch; storms can wash out a road and that washout goes undiscovered for months. An early start to a rainy season can mean miles of mud tracks in every direction that you can barely drive on. And, the nature of the routes mean turning back might not be a viable option due to limited services/fuel. I don't consider a come-along or hi-lift to be a reasonable alternative in this situation, but that's mainly because of the relative efficiency of them; I've been in situations where we've needed to get winch assistance over a distance of several kilometers of mud up a very steep mountain trail. This is possible to do with a manual winching option, but really unpleasant and a huge time sink, and comes with a high risk of injury; not only is it more sets/resets of your equipment, but it's also the need to do all that hard work that we may not be accustomed to -- we're all way more likely to give ourselves a heart attack with a manual winch than we are to dance with the devil via a wayward shackle or cable (and I say that because it is easy to mitigate against a wayward shackle. Heart Attacks will sneak up on us -- we're not as young as we used to be!).

So my thoughts for the OP -- if you are in category 1, forget it, not worth it. If you are in category 2, it's probably easier to get it from the factory and have those options than it is to add it later. If you are in Option 3, I think it would be an error not to spec the winch.

All that being said, whatever recovery equipment you go for, spend some time with experts to really know how it all works -- winches, hi lifts, exhaust jacks, and more all have risks if used improperly, and improper use is super common socially. A well known YouTube tow-truck driver regularly uses his ball for recovery; he has a reason why he thinks thats OK from what I've seen. Even on the Grand Tour's latest special, there's a scene with a dicey recovery on a tow ball rather than a rated recovery point. So -- recovery gear is like a gun. It's reasonable to say "better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it and not have it" and I agree with that. But without proper knowledge, care in it's use, and effective storage, this stuff becomes more dangerous for you and those around you than it is helpful.
I have optioned the tow mounting kit for the front so I can add the removable winch if I want to.
It also allows me to attach a caravan, trailer or boat to the front when moving them around in tight spaces.
This also looks like it allows me to tow from the rear or the front.
3.5 tonne capacity is a bit of a limit but correct winching techniques can solve this.
Also allows me to leave it at home 90% of the time and only take it when going off road

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Can you get the front winch and the towing mounting plate? That would really be the best of both worlds. I want to have my front winch in the bumper so it doesnt stick out and then be able to add the tow mounting plate for carrying a cooler across the beach or fishing gear or whatever
 

DaveB

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Whether a winch is worth it or not depends on the type of driving a person does.

1) Highway/around town/never leaving marked, maintained roads (even dirt roads are marked and maintained in much of North America) - you'll never need it. Maybe, during recovery from emergency events like big storms, you'll use it to help others or tidy up a tree or something. Super rare and probably not worth it.

2) Weekends Off-Road/Technical Trail Running - These are known trails or routes that are run by 4x4s on a regular basis. They often have difficulty ratings, maps, and named obstacles. Some are even in pay-to-access parks, though many (like those in MOAB) are open to the public. In these environments, a winch is certainly handy, but you've got other options, like a hi-lift, a come-along, another truck in the convoy, or the device others have posted to get through the tricky bits, which are only as frequent as the difficulty of trail you chose. You also have the option of knowing if a trail is likely to require winching or not, and simply choosing a bypass or a different trail that does not require winching. Basically, you have a lot of agency in your final situation, if this is the kind of 4x4 driving you like to do, so a winch becomes much more of a "nice to have" feature if it opens you up to more trails and experiences, but isn't necessarily required and other types of recovery equipment will do.

3) Overland travel - this means there is at least some degree of going to unknown routes, typically quite remote, where other travelers are not common. In this situation, your ability to make forward progress can be non-existent without a winch; storms can wash out a road and that washout goes undiscovered for months. An early start to a rainy season can mean miles of mud tracks in every direction that you can barely drive on. And, the nature of the routes mean turning back might not be a viable option due to limited services/fuel. I don't consider a come-along or hi-lift to be a reasonable alternative in this situation, but that's mainly because of the relative efficiency of them; I've been in situations where we've needed to get winch assistance over a distance of several kilometers of mud up a very steep mountain trail. This is possible to do with a manual winching option, but really unpleasant and a huge time sink, and comes with a high risk of injury; not only is it more sets/resets of your equipment, but it's also the need to do all that hard work that we may not be accustomed to -- we're all way more likely to give ourselves a heart attack with a manual winch than we are to dance with the devil via a wayward shackle or cable (and I say that because it is easy to mitigate against a wayward shackle. Heart Attacks will sneak up on us -- we're not as young as we used to be!).

So my thoughts for the OP -- if you are in category 1, forget it, not worth it. If you are in category 2, it's probably easier to get it from the factory and have those options than it is to add it later. If you are in Option 3, I think it would be an error not to spec the winch.

All that being said, whatever recovery equipment you go for, spend some time with experts to really know how it all works -- winches, hi lifts, exhaust jacks, and more all have risks if used improperly, and improper use is super common socially. A well known YouTube tow-truck driver regularly uses his ball for recovery; he has a reason why he thinks thats OK from what I've seen. Even on the Grand Tour's latest special, there's a scene with a dicey recovery on a tow ball rather than a rated recovery point. So -- recovery gear is like a gun. It's reasonable to say "better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it and not have it" and I agree with that. But without proper knowledge, care in it's use, and effective storage, this stuff becomes more dangerous for you and those around you than it is helpful.
There was a young guy killed not long ago when the tow hitch came off the vehicle towing/snatching him out and flew straight through his windscreen into him. Sad but the pictures showed that pretty much everything they were doing was wrong.
I saw one on Fraser Island recently where they were trying to drag the guy out of the sand and hadn't even dug the sand away from in front of the wheels let alone used max tracks to help.
With Max tracks he probably could have reversed out without help and had another go.
 

DaveB

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Can you get the front winch and the towing mounting plate? That would really be the best of both worlds. I want to have my front winch in the bumper so it doesnt stick out and then be able to add the tow mounting plate for carrying a cooler across the beach or fishing gear or whatever
I don't see how that would be possible.
 

Michael H.

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There was a young guy killed not long ago when the tow hitch came off the vehicle towing/snatching him out and flew straight through his windscreen into him. Sad but the pictures showed that pretty much everything they were doing was wrong.
I saw one on Fraser Island recently where they were trying to drag the guy out of the sand and hadn't even dug the sand away from in front of the wheels let alone used max tracks to help.
With Max tracks he probably could have reversed out without help and had another go.
Agree 100%.
 

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