Who is experiencing software or electrical gremlins?

[JohnHeagney]

Let’s hope the MPH reading doesn’t stop working that could get you into real trouble !

Ah! But I have Waze in Apple CarPlay that gives the speed!

 

[Deleted User Account.]

As soon as it hits zero again, park, tow home and sell it. Go to your priest for confession later.

 

[ryket]

Reading this thread, my concern is that IA just isn't capable of the level of software/systems engineering required to make a reliable modern car.

This is pure speculation, but their website has been noticeably buggy (I wasn't even able to make a reservation for a long time) and showed signs of not being properly tested. Maybe this points to a deeper culture problem? Was the desire to make an old-school car so great that no thought was given to the software, and they ended up hiring a sub-standard team?

If the production software is this bad, I have doubts that the people who wrote it are going to be able to fix it. Especially given that the vehicles were already delayed by months, presumably due to software problems.

Hopefully I get proven wrong.

Edit: worth noting that even Tesla has had a notoriously bad software development culture; but this isn't a good model to emulate.

 

[Norb-TX]

Should have ditched the BMW system and just gone analog, like their supposed ethos, that lead them to have a keyed ignition and push button remote. Proper instrument pod, a DIN or double DIN radio unit. A smallish digital display in the pod.

 

[DaveB]

That is true. Nevertheless, I think there is a larger proportion than I would have expected. But without statistics we will never know.

What we do know:

• Rear Seat Belt warnings - a few owners - possibly fix from Amazon or buckle up.
• Power Steering Pump message - clears after 5
• Tyre Pressure Warning messages - a few owners
• Power steering warning came on, and after a restart, the PDC warning also came on - quote @rovie
• It is suggested that battery condition maybe causing some of the above.
• Transmission Error messages
• Airbag fault messages, accompanied by wailer (cannot cancel).
• Reversing sensor malfunction.
• Beeps and Buzzes

As mentioned above, these messages are OK, until they do become a problem. Looks as though many of them could be coded out and should not have been eliminated during testing and development.

Any others to add to the list? Are there owners with NO problems?

The problem is when you write a list like this someone will copy it, post it, then add their own comments that are purely made up.
Most people who have taken delivery will have all of these issues.
Only 25% of people who have these issues are reporting them.
etc etc etc

 

[jamgolf]

For me personally, the must-haves for Ineos Grenadier have been:

1. reliability
2. off road capability to tackle 90% of the Colorado off-road trails in stock form
3. being a comfortable long-distance cruiser in terms of steering, NVH, and ride quality

I have been assuming reliability based on the stated goals of the project and have been more concerned about aspects like steering. But multiple owners experiencing electrical and software gremlins is not boding well for the the #1 must have.

Being in the US, I have felt a bit envious of our European friends taking deliveries of their Grenadiers, but at the same time US owners are better off being forced to wait. With time either these gremlins will get sorted or else we would know that Ineos did not achieve the #1 goal i.e. reliability.

After my recent test drive at the Colorado event I said I am 100% going to convert my reservation into an order. I will still do that but if a year from now there are still reports of gremlins then I will 100% back out. I will not compromise on my #1 must have.

 

[Jeremy996]

I do feel that people seem to be going into melt-down over the most minor of glitches.

I have now done 625 miles with no interruptions in terms of driving and arriving. Every so often, I get a yellow/orange messaage that says "Transmission fault" that lingers for 10 or so seconds and vanishes. Once I had a red message that said "PDC failure" that lingered for 25-30 seconds and vanished, not to be seen again. When I go into reverse, I have more noise than I expected and the reverse sensors show red when the nearest thing behind my Grenadier is 20+ metres away. Sometimes the seat belt warning sounds for longer than necessary and once it did not shut off for the journey, until I pressed the off-road button. and later cycled the ignition. I really cannot work up too much enthusiasm for whinging about minor problems.

Reliability for me is starting when I want, getting me to where I want to be and back again without pushing, lifting the bonnet, fiddling with stuff or summoning the road rescue cavalry. (Owning a LR110 for 15 years has possbily given me a tolerance others don't have!)

I have mentioned the transient messages to my dealer who is fairly confident that a software update will see the end of them, but neither he nor I see them as grounds for more than a minor insidence of "tutting".

 

[Spjnr]

I do feel that people seem to be going into melt-down over the most minor of glitches.

I have now done 625 miles with no interruptions in terms of driving and arriving. Every so often, I get a yellow/orange messaage that says "Transmission fault" that lingers for 10 or so seconds and vanishes. Once I had a red message that said "PDC failure" that lingered for 25-30 seconds and vanished, not to be seen again. When I go into reverse, I have more noise than I expected and the reverse sensors show red when the nearest thing behind my Grenadier is 20+ metres away. Sometimes the seat belt warning sounds for longer than necessary and once it did not shut off for the journey, until I pressed the off-road button. and later cycled the ignition. I really cannot work up too much enthusiasm for whinging about minor problems.

Reliability for me is starting when I want, getting me to where I want to be and back again without pushing, lifting the bonnet, fiddling with stuff or summoning the road rescue cavalry. (Owning a LR110 for 15 years has possbily given me a tolerance others don't have!)

I have mentioned the transient messages to my dealer who is fairly confident that a software update will see the end of them, but neither he nor I see them as grounds for more than a minor insidence of "tutting".

Well said Jeremy.

As i said before, as long as it starts, runs and gets you where you need to go with no affect to performance, I can tolerate glitches as long as they are fixed with an update

 

[Wilaspira]

I have just driven c20 miles and absolutely no bongs or warnings (for the first time). I must admit to feeling slightly disappointed, I have a slightly irrational sense that the car has lost a little of its personality

 

[Spjnr]

I have just driven c20 miles and absolutely no bongs or warnings (for the first time). I must admit to feeling slightly disappointed, I have a slightly irrational sense that the car has lost a little of its personality

Now your sounding like a true Landy owner!

 

[DaveB]

I do feel that people seem to be going into melt-down over the most minor of glitches.

I have now done 625 miles with no interruptions in terms of driving and arriving. Every so often, I get a yellow/orange messaage that says "Transmission fault" that lingers for 10 or so seconds and vanishes. Once I had a red message that said "PDC failure" that lingered for 25-30 seconds and vanished, not to be seen again. When I go into reverse, I have more noise than I expected and the reverse sensors show red when the nearest thing behind my Grenadier is 20+ metres away. Sometimes the seat belt warning sounds for longer than necessary and once it did not shut off for the journey, until I pressed the off-road button. and later cycled the ignition. I really cannot work up too much enthusiasm for whinging about minor problems.

Reliability for me is starting when I want, getting me to where I want to be and back again without pushing, lifting the bonnet, fiddling with stuff or summoning the road rescue cavalry. (Owning a LR110 for 15 years has possbily given me a tolerance others don't have!)

I have mentioned the transient messages to my dealer who is fairly confident that a software update will see the end of them, but neither he nor I see them as grounds for more than a minor insidence of "tutting".

My Mercedes occasionally throws up warnings and it is 8 years old and MB have been building cars for 100++ years
Passenger airbag not working 2-3 times over last 5 years and MB can't find anything wrong.
Top up coolant level twice in 5 years and coolant level is good.
A year ago it started telling me the rear seat passengers don't have seat belts on, every time I start the car. Must be ghosts back there. I have to hit the OK button.
I manage to live with it.

 

[Arkaig]

Any others to add to the list? Are there owners with NO problems?

I have had NO problems.

 

[Deepblue]

I have had NO problems.

I have driven bit over 600 km and have no problem - ignoring some minor warning messages showing up and disappearing again.
I really enjoy the mechanics like low range and diffs; never had such options in earlier cars.
Yes I know some software updates will be required - yet can tell you the wait is much more fun with the grenadier at home than before .
Planning for an offroad weekend and am so excited!

PS: and yes, have the same issue with radio station favorites not selectable that someone else stated. Have to admit I didn‘t made it to the end on the manual yet…

 

[bigleonski]

I’m getting the district impression that Land Rover drivers are significantly more tolerant than others in terms of little things going wrong. No idea why.

 

[Boston Boy]

Reading this thread, my concern is that IA just isn't capable of the level of software/systems engineering required to make a reliable modern car.

This is pure speculation, but their website has been noticeably buggy (I wasn't even able to make a reservation for a long time) and showed signs of not being properly tested. Maybe this points to a deeper culture problem? Was the desire to make an old-school car so great that no thought was given to the software, and they ended up hiring a sub-standard team?

If the production software is this bad, I have doubts that the people who wrote it are going to be able to fix it. Especially given that the vehicles were already delayed by months, presumably due to software problems.

Hopefully I get proven wrong.

Edit: worth noting that even Tesla has had a notoriously bad software development culture; but this isn't a good model to emulate.

I wonder if Ineos being a large chemical company they do not have internal experience with hiring staffing setting goals and managing software systems that manage complex MOBILE systems that are relatively small (i.e. battery powered). Interface design is one of the most important difficult endevours

 

[ryket]

I do feel that people seem to be going into melt-down over the most minor of glitches.

I have now done 625 miles with no interruptions in terms of driving and arriving. Every so often, I get a yellow/orange messaage that says "Transmission fault" that lingers for 10 or so seconds and vanishes. Once I had a red message that said "PDC failure" that lingered for 25-30 seconds and vanished, not to be seen again. When I go into reverse, I have more noise than I expected and the reverse sensors show red when the nearest thing behind my Grenadier is 20+ metres away. Sometimes the seat belt warning sounds for longer than necessary and once it did not shut off for the journey, until I pressed the off-road button. and later cycled the ignition. I really cannot work up too much enthusiasm for whinging about minor problems.

Maybe these faults sound worse over the internet then they are in person - and obviously I'm not the lucky one actually driving the car!

I've learned to live with all kinds of weird Land Rover electrical problems that manifested in a similar way.

But... the random warnings suggest some kind of common cause related to the main data bus - the car's central nervous system. I am not a systems engineer but I know there are a few reasons why this might happen. Could be an easy fix or a nightmare.

The fact that some owners are reporting no problems is a good sign though.

 

[jamgolf]

The reason I am not buying another Land Rover is because I want something reliable. I hope Grenadier can fulfill that. If not, I am not going down that same rabbit hole of unreliability.

I’ve seen my share of warning lights in the instrument cluster and am not willing to put up with any more.

Grenadier does not have half the gizmos that modern cars have. The point of getting a stripped down simpler than most cars is to avoid gremlins and things that can go wrong.

Ineos better get a grip over these software and electronic issues. At least I hope they do because I was happy with its build quality during my test drive.

 

[OGrid]

Out of interest does anyone who is encountering the bing & bong sound and light show (alarms and warning lights) have an auxiliary battery setup?

 

[Sillius Soddus]

I do feel that people seem to be going into melt-down over the most minor of glitches.

I have now done 625 miles with no interruptions in terms of driving and arriving. Every so often, I get a yellow/orange messaage that says "Transmission fault" that lingers for 10 or so seconds and vanishes. Once I had a red message that said "PDC failure" that lingered for 25-30 seconds and vanished, not to be seen again. When I go into reverse, I have more noise than I expected and the reverse sensors show red when the nearest thing behind my Grenadier is 20+ metres away. Sometimes the seat belt warning sounds for longer than necessary and once it did not shut off for the journey, until I pressed the off-road button. and later cycled the ignition. I really cannot work up too much enthusiasm for whinging about minor problems.

Reliability for me is starting when I want, getting me to where I want to be and back again without pushing, lifting the bonnet, fiddling with stuff or summoning the road rescue cavalry. (Owning a LR110 for 15 years has possbily given me a tolerance others don't have!)

I have mentioned the transient messages to my dealer who is fairly confident that a software update will see the end of them, but neither he nor I see them as grounds for more than a minor insidence of "tutting".

Numerous warning lights going on and off seemingly at random is hardly a minor glitch. What happens when the vehicle breaks down and Ineos pulls the error logs? Will they honor the warranty? Shrug and tell folks they shouldn’t have ignored the warnings? Judging from the apparent lack of post sales support I could not confidently say that the former is more likely. This is a bit like Tesla owners ignoring or rationalizing build quality issues. Sure, the panel gaps don’t affect the basic operation of the vehicle, but if they couldn’t be bothered to do a good job on the exterior, who can say that they didn’t cut corners in other areas. I mention Tesla specifically, because Ineos also seems to think it is acceptable to expect people to pay considerable sums to be beta testers. I have owned cheap cars, I have owned expensive cars. Never have I driven off a lot and experienced these kinds of issues. Lastly, I see estimates of 25% of owners with issues. Sorry, but that is nothing short of atrocious.

 

[Tinki]

I am going to sound completely idiotic here but i think this needs to be said .
What if all the crazyness is simply because vehicles have been built and sat around for so long with brand new batteries that never got properly cycled ? Is this just a matter if taking the car for a long drive at highway speeds to get everything settled in ?
I remember when my bmw had a battery ready to die i would get all sorts of weird stuff going on .
Maybe i am naive or simply stupid who knows ….
Time will tell i guess …