Who is experiencing software or electrical gremlins?

[Tom D]

It moves slightly to the left in manual mode.

 

[MarkH]

I do not know of any other vehicle where a door not being properly closed impacts shifting into forward or reverse gear.

My Jeep Grand Cherokee with the ZF 8spd does this, it was a recall after the fatality mentioned above. It caught me out in the first week of having the car as the driver's door wasn't shut properly and I couldn't move out of someone's way, the cars are airtight and doors need slamming. Also highly frustrating when you're trying to hitch up a trailer solo and need to get out to sight the hitch multiple times when the reverse camera is in shadow and screen is black. Need to get back in close the door, select reverse, move back another inch, then back in park, get out check and repeat.

 

[MarkH]

You can drive with the door open have done it today.

Was the car running then you opened the door and selected a gear, or did you start the car with the door open then select a gear?

 

[Tazzieman]

Opening new pathways and building neural networks is recommended for seniors. I look fwd to learning this new technology.
"Get with it dad" is what your offspring say. And I'll bet you said it to your grumpy dad too

 

[Norb-TX]

I must admit, I too am flabbergasted by the choice of gear selector. Admittedly I’ve only ever had 1 automatic, with a slush box for gears, but as your correctly pointed out (2020 Mitsubishi L200) it has an “old school” style gear selector where you slide through P-R-N-D so that once you’re your selected gear, other than hitting it up/down from a drive gear into neutral, it’s in gear with a tactile “thunk”.
I feel the bmw selector for a rugged vehicle truly lacks the “I know I’m in manual and in 2nd gear without looking” feel.

Bro, manuals are immune either. I grew up driving stick where you can just turn on the car no matter what, in gear or neutral. Now modern cars require you to depress the clutch before it will start. On my older Porsche, I can turn the car on from the outside through the window when I work on it. Does days are gone.

 

[DaveB]

Its not about a physical connection to the gearbox - its about the physical connection to the driver: does the gear selector provide a physical confirmation of being moved from one gear to another, or from auto to manual mode?

Definitely physical from auto to manual as the gearshift moves left RHD, or right LHD, and stays there.

 

[pioneerofthenile]

Hi Jean,

Sorry to hear about the error codes, but more so, the failure of the vehicle to move. @Logsplitter described something similar back on page 12 of this thread.

The bones of the Grenadier are absolutely amazing, and are exactly what all the enthusiasts wanted. These issues with modern vehicles though, are so frustrating. Your scenario of "stuck on a railroad" is exactly what has made me uncomfortable about buying a new car. There is a gut feeling I have that just prevents me from pulling the trigger; when I tell a vehicle to go, I damn well want it to go. It is an obvious safety issue - for many more scenarios other than being stuck on a railroad track.

To make matters worse, the gear selector just doesn't provide the feedback necessary to know exactly what is going on in those moments of urgency. I drove the Grenadier twice off-road. The first drive went great, and the vehicle did exactly what I wanted, and felt fantastic off road.

On the second drive, I crested a hill, and was about to start descending down a fairly steep grade. I clicked the gear selector over to the left, into manual mode. Of course, there is no good indicator that you are in manual mode with this gear selector - and my eyes were on the trail (which was narrow, involved a turn, and then a steep descent) - not on the dash (where an indicator light comes on). In a Jeep Wrangler, or Gladiator (both using the ZF 8-speed), and in a Toyota 4-Runner, the gear selector physically moves over to the left, with a very positive and tactile engagement. You can see it in its new position, but more importantly, you can feel it move and lock into the new spot (so you do not actually have to look at anything to confirm). It turned out, when I shifted the Grenadier selector to the left, it did not engage manual mode - most likely my mistake in not pushing it far enough to the left. But I thought I was in manual mode. So I start going down the hill, and I click the gear selector forward. In manual mode, this would have dropped the vehicle down a gear (to give me better engine braking on the steep descent). Instead - because the vehicle was still in drive - clicking forward put the truck into neutral - and I took off down the hill like a bat out of hell. I quickly regained control of the car, using the brakes, and by putting the gear selector back into drive, but things could have gone quite badly. This is a very poor design. Yes - the mistake was certainly mine - but that is not a mistake you can make with a manual transmission, or with automatic transmissions that use a gear selector with a different design; in particular, a gear selector that moves, and provides positive engagement - not one that pivots, and then returns to it original location.

I really wanted a Grenadier, and would buy one despite the fact that I believe it is now overpriced here in the U.S. But I won't buy a vehicle that I believe to be overpriced, that also has what - to me - are significant shortcomings. Its been hard wrapping my head around not buying a Grenadier, but I believe I am now there.

Anyway - I am really glad to hear that you are otherwise loving the truck - I know that you have been looking forward to it as long as I was. I hope the little glitches, and this bigger one, get resolved for you!

the bmw gearbox seems like an awful choice for a 4wd engagement transmission. seems like many modern gearboxes are barely suitable for new street cars without them being annoying, and wondering what gear you're in. but trying to make on the fly adjustments with the grenadier in taxing situations when you need them shouldn't result in guesswork. with each passing day, more red flags appear with this car.

 

[Loc Nar]

the bmw gearbox seems like an awful choice for a 4wd engagement transmission. seems like many modern gearboxes are barely suitable for new street cars without them being annoying, and wondering what gear you're in. trying to make on the fly adjustments in taxing situations when you need them shouldn't result in guesswork. with each passing day, more red flags appear with this car.

I agree 100%, but recognize this is a compromise to receive the product on offer in a reasonably acceptable time frame. If the Gren finds its footing and becomes an established brand, then I expect the gearbox/shifter will be one of the first items upgraded. When that happens, I'll gladly trade in my current Gren for it. I'm willing to accept the compromise for this gen, because [shifts to Southern] I ain't gettin' any younger.

 

[DenisM]

I agree 100%, but recognize this is a compromise to receive the product on offer in a reasonably acceptable time frame. If the Gren finds its footing and becomes an established brand, then I expect the gearbox/shifter will be one of the first items upgraded. When that happens, I'll gladly trade in my current Gren for it. I'm willing to accept the compromise for this gen, because [shifts to Southern] I ain't gettin' any younger.

"For the life of me" I don't understand the fuss over the gear shifter... I've driven the IG and "played" with the shifter a lot during the extended drive: it's perfectly adequate for the task at hand. A little "mechanical empathy" goes a long way!

 

[AnD3rew]

the bmw gearbox seems like an awful choice for a 4wd engagement transmission. seems like many modern gearboxes are barely suitable for new street cars without them being annoying, and wondering what gear you're in. but trying to make on the fly adjustments with the grenadier in taxing situations when you need them shouldn't result in guesswork. with each passing day, more red flags appear with this car.

The ZF gearbox is awesome I have it in my Ftype Jag and it shifts instantly and appropriately every time, it was a great choice. Less thrilled with the actual shifter lever, something more tactile and positive would have been better, would also have been nice to have paddles, off road it isn’t just a gimmick it means you can manually shift gears without taking your hands off the wheel. But to say the actual transmission is a problem is just wrong, it’s a great choice.

 

[Tazzieman]

it’s a great choice.

It wasn't a 2 second decision to choose it, and there was that 1.8 million km of testing.

 

[DaveB]

the bmw gearbox seems like an awful choice for a 4wd engagement transmission. seems like many modern gearboxes are barely suitable for new street cars without them being annoying, and wondering what gear you're in. but trying to make on the fly adjustments with the grenadier in taxing situations when you need them shouldn't result in guesswork. with each passing day, more red flags appear with this car.

I am getting the impression that you aren't really interested in the vehicle, you are just on here to stir shit and constantly say negative things.
You never need to "wonder" what gear you are in.
The gear you are in is clearly shown on the screen in front of you.
You don't have to look down at the gearstick.
All automatic gearboxes that have a manual mode just use a momentary push forward or pull back to change gears.
Main difference in the Grenadier is that in manual mode it will hold whatever gear you select, unlike most vehicles that will change gear if you over or under rev it.
By the way it isn't a BMW gearbox it is a ZF gearbox
So even if you went for one of the old fashioned clunky gearchanges that some people seem to want, you still only get a + and - for up and down gear changes.
Or you could get the really outdated version with 3 gears plus drive, but surely the 16 manual gears you get in the Grenadier is much better

 

[AnD3rew]

I am getting the impression that you aren't really interested in the vehicle, you are just on here to stir shit and constantly say negative things.

Totally, don’t understand why he is wasting his time hanging around here. He doesn’t like it, he doesn’t want one so why waste your life here?

 

[Tazzieman]

Totally, don’t understand why he is wasting his time hanging around here. He doesn’t like it, he doesn’t want one so why waste your life here?

It's ironic his screen name is that of a dead horse from Kentucky

 

[DaBull]

the bmw gearbox seems like an awful choice for a 4wd engagement transmission. seems like many modern gearboxes are barely suitable for new street cars without them being annoying, and wondering what gear you're in. but trying to make on the fly adjustments with the grenadier in taxing situations when you need them shouldn't result in guesswork. with each passing day, more red flags appear with this car.

I currently own the new 2020 defender, which has the same or similar 8 speed ZF Transmission. The only extra feature mine has on the shifter is the ability to put it in sports mode which provides a lower sportier driving experience and automatically shifts, just like if in regular mode. It also offers a manual tiptronic type manual mode where you can bump the gear up or down and it will hold it. I have driven a Grenadier prototype and except for the fact it does not have the automatic sports mode, I believe the Grenadier ZF transmission is the same or similar. I have also owned a 2019 Range Rover Sport with the six speed ZF Automatic. I have been upset at myself for not following through and writing ZF about their transmission. Driving them has been such an exceptional experience and provided so much joy and exhilaration that I cannot praise that company enough. It is truly an amazing feat of engineering. Well, maybe this is my letter to ZF. Consider me a ZF Fan for life. Note to Grenadier, see about getting the sports mode activated or added to the Grenadier. DaBull

 

[bemax]

I never had a car with the bmw lever. I do not like automatic gear boxes at all. The feeling of driving/controlling a car for me is connected to the movement of clutch and throttle and the feeling of acceleration (positive and negative)
But the ZF model made it easy to adapt to itself. I drive two more cars with a double clutch and and a automatic gearbox and the ZF is definitely the best one. The only thing I really miss is the easy way to brake with the motor on long decents. It takes to long to find the right gear for that at the moment.

 

[DaveB]

I never had a car with the bmw lever. I do not like automatic gear boxes at all. The feeling of driving/controlling a car for me is connected to the movement of clutch and throttle and the feeling of acceleration (positive and negative)
But the ZF model made it easy to adapt to itself. I drive two more cars with a double clutch and and a automatic gearbox and the ZF is definitely the best one. The only thing I really miss is the easy way to brake with the motor on long decents. It takes to long to find the right gear for that at the moment.

I used 2nd gear low on a steep slippery downhill section of the offroad track and it was excellent at engine braking.
It was a diesel.

 

[DaBull]

I never had a car with the bmw lever. I do not like automatic gear boxes at all. The feeling of driving/controlling a car for me is connected to the movement of clutch and throttle and the feeling of acceleration (positive and negative)
But the ZF model made it easy to adapt to itself. I drive two more cars with a double clutch and and a automatic gearbox and the ZF is definitely the best one. The only thing I really miss is the easy way to brake with the motor on long decents. It takes to long to find the right gear for that at the moment.

Hi Bemax, My favorite transmission of all time was my manual 3-speed in my first vehicle, my 36 hp 1957 dual cargo door splitty VW Van, primer grey at first. My parents bought if for me for $800 as my first car. For the last 50 years I have been trying to get back to that same feeling that the VW Van gave me, Pure freedom, surfing, camping, skiing, dating, (I can't imagine what my girl friends parents thought when I pulled up to take their daughter on a date). My van had an overhead airplane like control console, (although it only controlled air flow into the interior of the van), which I outfitted with light switches to light the interior of the van. I always imagined I was a flight or boat captain driving that Van. The Grenadier to me is a return for me to get as close as possible to replicating that feeling in that special Van. Once I take delivery of my Grenadier and step inside my new Grenadier airplane cockpit and head off on a surf Safari, I know I have come full circle back to my roots. Thank You Mom & Dad for buying that Magical Mystery Bus for Me. Thanks in Advance to my wife for letting me have my 4th mid-life crises in the last 3 years and giving me the thumbs up to buy the Grenadier and continue on our dream journey together. Surfs Up Again!

 

[Hannes01]

I did a test drive in an IG this week, petrol version. the automatic works perfectly in all situations. off-road on low/high, on the road, in automatic and manual.

I didn't have any error messages either, but I always waited until the screen had finished driving up when I started it.

 

[JohnHeagney]

I am getting the impression that you aren't really interested in the vehicle, you are just on here to stir shit and constantly say negative things.
You never need to "wonder" what gear you are in.
The gear you are in is clearly shown on the screen in front of you.
You don't have to look down at the gearstick.
All automatic gearboxes that have a manual mode just use a momentary push forward or pull back to change gears.
Main difference in the Grenadier is that in manual mode it will hold whatever gear you select, unlike most vehicles that will change gear if you over or under rev it.
By the way it isn't a BMW gearbox it is a ZF gearbox
So even if you went for one of the old fashioned clunky gearchanges that some people seem to want, you still only get a + and - for up and down gear changes.
Or you could get the really outdated version with 3 gears plus drive, but surely the 16 manual gears you get in the Grenadier is much better


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Well said!