The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Who is experiencing software or electrical gremlins?

Tom D

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
989
Reaction score
2,737
Location
Berwickshire
These issues are a little concerning.
The problem is its hard to know whether this thread is amplifying an issue that only affects a few vehicles or whether it’s something that’s happening across the board.
Hopefully its a software issue that can be fixed with an update and not a load of bad sensors.

I had the same issue as Jean today as I jumped in my soon to be mine Gren at the dealers. The drivers door wasn’t slammed shut and it kept putting itself in neutral as soon as I took my foot off the brake. I stupidly didn’t check the door and braked with my left foot whilst accelerating with my right, then it moved! Then I discovered the door thing and it was fine after that. I haven’t looked at the door sensors but they could possibly be adjusted?
 

jamgolf

Forum Supporter
Local time
6:58 PM
Joined
Jan 3, 2023
Messages
35
Reaction score
149
Location
Colorado
I do not know of any other vehicle where a door not being properly closed impacts shifting into forward or reverse gear. Almost all cars have a light in instrument cluster showing which door is open. Some cars have a chime that alerts you that a door is open. If this is supposed to be a "feature", I must say it's a really stupid one, and a potential hazard, as @Jean Mercier mentioend, and there should be a way to disable it in settings.

A completely unnecessary self inflicted wound .. this one.
 

Norb-TX

Grenadier Owner
Local time
7:58 PM
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
Messages
573
Reaction score
726
Location
Houston
Its the new way. People got run over when they didn't put their cars in Park, because the overly complex way of gear shifting. Like the BMW shifter in the Gren. So as a safety feature, if you car is in drive/reverse and you open your door, it'll go into park automatically.
 

jamgolf

Forum Supporter
Local time
6:58 PM
Joined
Jan 3, 2023
Messages
35
Reaction score
149
Location
Colorado
Hmmm ... I've had the ZF transmission in an Alfa Rome Giulia Quadrifoglio, in Land Rover and perhaps in an Audi S5 (I am not sure about the last one) - and none of them disallowed shifting gears if a door was not properly closed. Perhaps this is something very recent.

And if such a feature is to be implemented then it should display a message on the main screen .. something like :
"Door Ajar. Please close door(s) first"
 

Loc Nar

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
7:58 PM
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
498
Reaction score
969
Location
Alabama, USA
Try engaging the off-road mode to see if that disables this particular open door nanny feature.
 

Bruce

Global Grenadier #51
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
5:58 PM
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
893
Reaction score
1,284
Location
Washington, USA
My Ford explorer also shifts in the park if you try to open the door to cheat a peek at the curb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PBD
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Am now close to 4000 km driving. I love the car, drives very well. Am driving slowly back home through Austria, some mountain roads or tracks but nothing I couldn't have done with my Suzuki Grand Vitara.

But the error warnings are a real hassle, I am not worried, but stop several times to switch off the car, and switch on everything again, sometimes to no avail.

My Suzuki, 10 years ago wasn't my dream car, I would have liked a Toyota Land Cruiser. But, no problems at all, the car behaved well. Off course, there was less electronics in it.

Today, when leaving the camping no way to make my car move, neither forward, neither backwards, something blocked it! Motor was running!

I finally discovered my driver's door wasn't well closed! And what if this was an emergency situation for instance stuck on a railroad?

No, I don't agree with all these safety blocking software programming!

Hi Jean,

Sorry to hear about the error codes, but more so, the failure of the vehicle to move. @Logsplitter described something similar back on page 12 of this thread.

The bones of the Grenadier are absolutely amazing, and are exactly what all the enthusiasts wanted. These issues with modern vehicles though, are so frustrating. Your scenario of "stuck on a railroad" is exactly what has made me uncomfortable about buying a new car. There is a gut feeling I have that just prevents me from pulling the trigger; when I tell a vehicle to go, I damn well want it to go. It is an obvious safety issue - for many more scenarios other than being stuck on a railroad track.

To make matters worse, the gear selector just doesn't provide the feedback necessary to know exactly what is going on in those moments of urgency. I drove the Grenadier twice off-road. The first drive went great, and the vehicle did exactly what I wanted, and felt fantastic off road.

On the second drive, I crested a hill, and was about to start descending down a fairly steep grade. I clicked the gear selector over to the left, into manual mode. Of course, there is no good indicator that you are in manual mode with this gear selector - and my eyes were on the trail (which was narrow, involved a turn, and then a steep descent) - not on the dash (where an indicator light comes on). In a Jeep Wrangler, or Gladiator (both using the ZF 8-speed), and in a Toyota 4-Runner, the gear selector physically moves over to the left, with a very positive and tactile engagement. You can see it in its new position, but more importantly, you can feel it move and lock into the new spot (so you do not actually have to look at anything to confirm). It turned out, when I shifted the Grenadier selector to the left, it did not engage manual mode - most likely my mistake in not pushing it far enough to the left. But I thought I was in manual mode. So I start going down the hill, and I click the gear selector forward. In manual mode, this would have dropped the vehicle down a gear (to give me better engine braking on the steep descent). Instead - because the vehicle was still in drive - clicking forward put the truck into neutral - and I took off down the hill like a bat out of hell. I quickly regained control of the car, using the brakes, and by putting the gear selector back into drive, but things could have gone quite badly. This is a very poor design. Yes - the mistake was certainly mine - but that is not a mistake you can make with a manual transmission, or with automatic transmissions that use a gear selector with a different design; in particular, a gear selector that moves, and provides positive engagement - not one that pivots, and then returns to it original location.

I really wanted a Grenadier, and would buy one despite the fact that I believe it is now overpriced here in the U.S. But I won't buy a vehicle that I believe to be overpriced, that also has what - to me - are significant shortcomings. Its been hard wrapping my head around not buying a Grenadier, but I believe I am now there.

Anyway - I am really glad to hear that you are otherwise loving the truck - I know that you have been looking forward to it as long as I was. I hope the little glitches, and this bigger one, get resolved for you!
 
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Its the new way. People got run over when they didn't put their cars in Park, because the overly complex way of gear shifting. Like the BMW shifter in the Gren. So as a safety feature, if you car is in drive/reverse and you open your door, it'll go into park automatically.
Yeah, a well-known Hollywood actor, Anton Yelchin, was killed in 2016 when he was run over by his own car (a Jeep Grand Cherokee). It is presumed that he thought that he had put the car in Park, but it was one of these gear selectors that do not move (like the Grenadier's). He was found dead, pinned against a gate by his car, which had rolled down his driveway. The car was found in Neutral.

It seems that the obvious solution is to go back to gear selectors that actually move. But instead, we get vehicles that won't move if a door is opened, or fails to close completely.

On the up-side, this is a whole new way to build tension in a horror movie. It used to be that you had to have the beautiful young woman fumbling with her car keys while the killer or monster closed in. Now you can have her get into the car, start it up, but find that it won't move unless she re-opens the door and gives it a good slam.
 

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:58 PM
Joined
Aug 24, 2022
Messages
2,436
Reaction score
6,046
The garage that service all of our commercial vehicles have 'not' plugged it in the their diagnostic equipment and 'not' tried to talk to it, but their reader couldn't even find it ??
But they they did find out there is a wiring issue with the back doors!!!
So they were using a generic code reader? They are not an official INEOS agent is that right? Has anyone had an INEOS agent try to read the codes?

But also an issue if none of the commercial multi vehicle code readers can read even basic codes. Hope that get resolved quickly. I have a Foxwell reader that I take into the bush with me, but in a country town I need the local mechanic to be able to read and clear codes.
 
Local time
8:58 PM
Joined
Jan 20, 2023
Messages
142
Reaction score
319
Location
Belmont, MA
I do not know of any other vehicle where a door not being properly closed impacts shifting into forward or reverse gear. Almost all cars have a light in instrument cluster showing which door is open. Some cars have a chime that alerts you that a door is open. If this is supposed to be a "feature", I must say it's a really stupid one, and a potential hazard, as @Jean Mercier mentioend, and there should be a way to disable it in settings.

A completely unnecessary self inflicted wound .. this one.
Not just unnecessary, but stupidly dangerous. Think of all the scenarios when sensor goes bad and you would be stuck unable to move, in a snow storm, a noon on a hot day in Australia, etc, etc. We are bing nannied to death. (cue the soundtrack from 2001 a Space Odyssey: "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that...
 

jamesfielding

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Jan 25, 2023
Messages
238
Reaction score
430
Location
Malvern, UK
Hi Jean,

Sorry to hear about the error codes, but more so, the failure of the vehicle to move. @Logsplitter described something similar back on page 12 of this thread.

The bones of the Grenadier are absolutely amazing, and are exactly what all the enthusiasts wanted. These issues with modern vehicles though, are so frustrating. Your scenario of "stuck on a railroad" is exactly what has made me uncomfortable about buying a new car. There is a gut feeling I have that just prevents me from pulling the trigger; when I tell a vehicle to go, I damn well want it to go. It is an obvious safety issue - for many more scenarios other than being stuck on a railroad track.

To make matters worse, the gear selector just doesn't provide the feedback necessary to know exactly what is going on in those moments of urgency. I drove the Grenadier twice off-road. The first drive went great, and the vehicle did exactly what I wanted, and felt fantastic off road.

On the second drive, I crested a hill, and was about to start descending down a fairly steep grade. I clicked the gear selector over to the left, into manual mode. Of course, there is no good indicator that you are in manual mode with this gear selector - and my eyes were on the trail (which was narrow, involved a turn, and then a steep descent) - not on the dash (where an indicator light comes on). In a Jeep Wrangler, or Gladiator (both using the ZF 8-speed), and in a Toyota 4-Runner, the gear selector physically moves over to the left, with a very positive and tactile engagement. You can see it in its new position, but more importantly, you can feel it move and lock into the new spot (so you do not actually have to look at anything to confirm). It turned out, when I shifted the Grenadier selector to the left, it did not engage manual mode - most likely my mistake in not pushing it far enough to the left. But I thought I was in manual mode. So I start going down the hill, and I click the gear selector forward. In manual mode, this would have dropped the vehicle down a gear (to give me better engine braking on the steep descent). Instead - because the vehicle was still in drive - clicking forward put the truck into neutral - and I took off down the hill like a bat out of hell. I quickly regained control of the car, using the brakes, and by putting the gear selector back into drive, but things could have gone quite badly. This is a very poor design. Yes - the mistake was certainly mine - but that is not a mistake you can make with a manual transmission, or with automatic transmissions that use a gear selector with a different design; in particular, a gear selector that moves, and provides positive engagement - not one that pivots, and then returns to it original location.

I really wanted a Grenadier, and would buy one despite the fact that I believe it is now overpriced here in the U.S. But I won't buy a vehicle that I believe to be overpriced, that also has what - to me - are significant shortcomings. Its been hard wrapping my head around not buying a Grenadier, but I believe I am now there.

Anyway - I am really glad to hear that you are otherwise loving the truck - I know that you have been looking forward to it as long as I was. I hope the little glitches, and this bigger one, get resolved for you!
Hi Jean,

Sorry to hear about the error codes, but more so, the failure of the vehicle to move. @Logsplitter described something similar back on page 12 of this thread.

The bones of the Grenadier are absolutely amazing, and are exactly what all the enthusiasts wanted. These issues with modern vehicles though, are so frustrating. Your scenario of "stuck on a railroad" is exactly what has made me uncomfortable about buying a new car. There is a gut feeling I have that just prevents me from pulling the trigger; when I tell a vehicle to go, I damn well want it to go. It is an obvious safety issue - for many more scenarios other than being stuck on a railroad track.

To make matters worse, the gear selector just doesn't provide the feedback necessary to know exactly what is going on in those moments of urgency. I drove the Grenadier twice off-road. The first drive went great, and the vehicle did exactly what I wanted, and felt fantastic off road.

On the second drive, I crested a hill, and was about to start descending down a fairly steep grade. I clicked the gear selector over to the left, into manual mode. Of course, there is no good indicator that you are in manual mode with this gear selector - and my eyes were on the trail (which was narrow, involved a turn, and then a steep descent) - not on the dash (where an indicator light comes on). In a Jeep Wrangler, or Gladiator (both using the ZF 8-speed), and in a Toyota 4-Runner, the gear selector physically moves over to the left, with a very positive and tactile engagement. You can see it in its new position, but more importantly, you can feel it move and lock into the new spot (so you do not actually have to look at anything to confirm). It turned out, when I shifted the Grenadier selector to the left, it did not engage manual mode - most likely my mistake in not pushing it far enough to the left. But I thought I was in manual mode. So I start going down the hill, and I click the gear selector forward. In manual mode, this would have dropped the vehicle down a gear (to give me better engine braking on the steep descent). Instead - because the vehicle was still in drive - clicking forward put the truck into neutral - and I took off down the hill like a bat out of hell. I quickly regained control of the car, using the brakes, and by putting the gear selector back into drive, but things could have gone quite badly. This is a very poor design. Yes - the mistake was certainly mine - but that is not a mistake you can make with a manual transmission, or with automatic transmissions that use a gear selector with a different design; in particular, a gear selector that moves, and provides positive engagement - not one that pivots, and then returns to it original location.

I really wanted a Grenadier, and would buy one despite the fact that I believe it is now overpriced here in the U.S. But I won't buy a vehicle that I believe to be overpriced, that also has what - to me - are significant shortcomings. Its been hard wrapping my head around not buying a Grenadier, but I believe I am now there.

Anyway - I am really glad to hear that you are otherwise loving the truck - I know that you have been looking forward to it as long as I was. I hope the little glitches, and this bigger one, get resolved for you!
I must admit, I too am flabbergasted by the choice of gear selector. Admittedly I’ve only ever had 1 automatic, with a slush box for gears, but as your correctly pointed out (2020 Mitsubishi L200) it has an “old school” style gear selector where you slide through P-R-N-D so that once you’re your selected gear, other than hitting it up/down from a drive gear into neutral, it’s in gear with a tactile “thunk”.
I feel the bmw selector for a rugged vehicle truly lacks the “I know I’m in manual and in 2nd gear without looking” feel.
 

@nd

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
8:58 PM
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
353
Reaction score
888
I was lead to believe not allowing a vehicle to move with the door open was possibly an EU requirement???
 
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
I must admit, I too am flabbergasted by the choice of gear selector. Admittedly I’ve only ever had 1 automatic, with a slush box for gears, but as your correctly pointed out (2020 Mitsubishi L200) it has an “old school” style gear selector where you slide through P-R-N-D so that once you’re your selected gear, other than hitting it up/down from a drive gear into neutral, it’s in gear with a tactile “thunk”.
I feel the bmw selector for a rugged vehicle truly lacks the “I know I’m in manual and in 2nd gear without looking” feel.
Exactly - and probably much better said than my long-winded post 😁
 

DaveB

Grenadier Owner
Local time
11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
7,442
Reaction score
15,158
Location
Toogoom, Fraser Coast Queensland
I must admit, I too am flabbergasted by the choice of gear selector. Admittedly I’ve only ever had 1 automatic, with a slush box for gears, but as your correctly pointed out (2020 Mitsubishi L200) it has an “old school” style gear selector where you slide through P-R-N-D so that once you’re your selected gear, other than hitting it up/down from a drive gear into neutral, it’s in gear with a tactile “thunk”.
I feel the bmw selector for a rugged vehicle truly lacks the “I know I’m in manual and in 2nd gear without looking” feel.
Just because it has that setup doesn't mean it has a physical connection to the gearbox.
Many of the inline gear selectors are only operating a series of electrical contacts underneath that then change gears using a solenoid.
 

bakepl

Grenadier Owner
Local time
11:58 AM
Joined
Feb 11, 2022
Messages
542
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Brisbane, Australia
So they were using a generic code reader? They are not an official INEOS agent is that right? Has anyone had an INEOS agent try to read the codes?

But also an issue if none of the commercial multi vehicle code readers can read even basic codes. Hope that get resolved quickly. I have a Foxwell reader that I take into the bush with me, but in a country town I need the local mechanic to be able to read and clear codes.
100%. I have a Launch 431pro that I take bush... be great if someone finds a reader that works and posts here... I did contact Launch re the Ineos but no response, will try again once I have the vehicle and tried the 431.
 
Local time
1:58 AM
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
2,423
Just because it has that setup doesn't mean it has a physical connection to the gearbox.
Many of the inline gear selectors are only operating a series of electrical contacts underneath that then change gears using a solenoid.
Its not about a physical connection to the gearbox - its about the physical connection to the driver: does the gear selector provide a physical confirmation of being moved from one gear to another, or from auto to manual mode?
 

Hannes01

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
2:58 AM
Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Messages
667
Reaction score
1,145
Location
Germany
We have 3 BMW with that transmission / shifter.
non of then get in D or R when the drivers door is not closed!
 
Back
Top Bottom