What is the exact procedure to train/learn/register new TPMS sensors to the Grenadier?

[Dieter]

@douggie Today, I was able to swap all the sensors of my winter tyres to AUTEL MX sensors and programmed them via the AUTEL TS508WF device. I've just cloned the IDs from the factory BFG ko2 tyres. What I can see clearly, the sensor IDs are at fixed locations and the Grenadier do not automatically detect if you swap tyres. I had swapped the front tyres about two months ago, and that was still visible on the screen.
So, as you are suggesting, the best procedure is to write down the original IDs of all five tyres (as these IDs are somewhat hard-coded in the Grenadiers ICU), and after rotating tyres just clone the IDs again - job done!
Not sure if INEOS works on an improvement of the TPMS software in the future, but currently the use of the AUTEL device and sensors is the best approach to get the most flexibility, and it's not expensive at all.

 

[Jeffrey]

Can I have the MX sensors installed when I swap out for new wheels/tires and do the programming later? My tire shop doesn't seem to have the programming ability.

 

[douggie]

Can I have the MX sensors installed when I swap out for new wheels/tires and do the programming later? My tire shop doesn't seem to have the programming ability.

Yes you can. I did mine later in the week cause carrying the old wheels in the car as duplicates can confuse things anyway.

Key is to have a tpms tool that can read your existing placements and display the codes before the old wheels come off. Or you’ll be up fir a visit to your Ineos Dealer to do an Ineos Rest Tool OBD relearn (if they have mastered that)

Bob Jane T-mart Kaperra had the same tool as me, but their software was not up to the version to have the Ineos Grenadier on it - and they can’t update on the premises. They made a note to get the TPMS unit updated to the versions I had (vehicle and sensor versions)

 

[Jeffrey]

Yes you can. I did mine later in the week cause carrying the old wheels in the car as duplicates can confuse things anyway.

Key is to have a tpms tool that can read your existing placements and display the codes before the old wheels come off. Or you’ll be up fir a visit to your Ineos Dealer to do an Ineos Rest Tool OBD relearn (if they have mastered that)

Bob Jane T-mart Kaperra had the same tool as me, but their software was not up to the version to have the Ineos Grenadier on it - and they can’t update on the premises. They made a note to get the TPMS unit updated to the versions I had (vehicle and sensor versions)

Thanks for that tip, Douggie. I'll have to read the stock units before going to the tire shop. Maybe I can program the new ones then before installation. I'll need to remember what position each one goes to, as well.

 

[Dieter]

Can I have the MX sensors installed when I swap out for new wheels/tires and do the programming later? My tire shop doesn't seem to have the programming ability.

YES, that's exactly what I did today. Was at my tyre dealer and they replaced the sensors to the new MX sensors. Then drove back home and cloned the summer tyres (originally delivered BFG ko2's) to the new MX sensors in the winter tyres. Works pretty easy with the AUTEL TS508 device, cloning was done in about 10 minutes only. There is one important setting "TPMS Prog Limit" in the TS508 you have turn off, it's the TPMS pressure warning so you can program a sensor which is installed in an inflated tyre.

 

[IG_in_AZ]

So the tyre TPMS data on the Grenadier via offroad->temperature view and the TPMS warning high or low temp screen place the wheels in differing positions.

I have a picture showing both when my rear tyres are set much higher than the fronts and one view has the rears on right side of the vehicle as front and rear and the other shows left rear and right front. Neither is correct.

I was having problems running the Grenadier settings menu -> vehicle info -> tyre pressure cold reset (works sometimes) and after inflating for towing to max pressures and it’s a warm Aussie summer day, the cold 340 kpa while towing on the rates gets to 400. The fronts 300 went to 330 and my moniitor was still thinking cold pressure 250) And I got this interesting photo en route: (sorry for the glare)

View attachment 7839256

And this is the delivered tyre positions post PDI procedures.

Most people have the tyres at the same pressures so you don’t spot it.

I’m at software update v1946 so I realize there is a new update coming and I can see if that fixes the orientation difference.

Note: The Autel MaxiTPMS TS508 cannot do OBD validation let alone update yet.

And it appears a difficult procedure for even the manufacturer to get right given my photo, especially when the software misplaces wheels on the two different views.

I am thinking that I run a series of tests with all tyres set to different pressures to work out what the Grenadier actually thinks is where, using on the temperature screen view, and then reprogram the sensors to be in the right place. then vary all tyres by 8psi or 60kpa to trigger the low / high warning and see what the results look like on the temp screen with the TPMS warning side showing.

Results and screen shots back here in a week.

Cheers Doug.

Mine are unfortunately the same. I think the software in the receiver is locating the tires in the wrong positions. One view shows the right 2 higher than the left 2. The other shows them staggered like yours. This is after the tires were replaced with 295s and installed by my dealer. I know they trained the sensors because they had to drive it for around 20 minutes to get it to learn.

 

[Dieter]

ProTip when using any cloning tool:
Please note all five sensor IDs of your original tyres, including the spare. Those sensor IDs are stored (or paired) into your Grenadiers TPMS ICU. This way you know exactly which sensor ID (it's a 7 digit hex code) is expected at a specific location on the car and you can just clone or reprogram new sensors easily!

For my Grenadier: (note, I did swapped the front tyres a month ago, so had to correct the positions)
LF: A6F814E
RF: A6F8162
RR: A6F8A74
LR: A6F8663
Spare: A6F8C04

 

[douggie]

Mine are unfortunately the same. I think the software in the receiver is locating the tires in the wrong positions. One view shows the right 2 higher than the left 2. The other shows them staggered like yours. This is after the tires were replaced with 295s and installed by my dealer. I know they trained the sensors because they had to drive it for around 20 minutes to get it to learn.

You can’t drive it to train them. Might work for other vehicles, but that function is not available on the Grenadier as yet (works for others). And wth a TPMS Scan tool you can just trigger the sensor and don’t need to drive anywhere. The sensors only broadcast periodically when in motion. The grenadier will see that if the ignition is on.

For OEM Continentsl sensors you only have these options :

1. Dealers Ineos Test Tool running the OBD relearn procedure (and run properly starting with right front wheel),
2. manually move the tyres to the right places to match where you think they might be then everything matches. It’s nice to trigger the warning screen too by having at least one tyre too high or too low pressure.

The Grenadier forward (even late releases) doesn’t like the tyres out of the correct position and shows those weird cross overs you see.

For 3rd party programmable sensors you can recode them rather than moving like I did.

 

[DenisM]

The above comments had me thinking I might be driving in blissful ignorance in "believing" the TPMS tyre identities on the screen are correctly aligned!
However, I have noted that once I've been travelling for a couple of hours the two rear tyres increase their respective pressure consistently by 3-4 psi and 4-5 degC over the front tyres. Driving north on an "interstate" highway a while back, the mid afternoon sun (34 degC external air temp) caused the lhs f&r tyres to increase by 4 degrees over the rhs equivalents which were in shade!

 

[Dieter]

You can’t drive it to train them. Might work for other vehicles, but that function is not available on the Grenadier as yet (works for others). And wth a TPMS Scan tool you can just trigger the sensor and don’t need to drive anywhere. The sensors only broadcast periodically when in motion. The grenadier will see that if the ignition is on.

For OEM Continentsl sensors you only have these options :

1. Dealers Ineos Test Tool running the OBD relearn procedure (and run properly starting with right front wheel),
2. manually move the tyres to the right places to match where you think they might be then everything matches. It’s nice to trigger the warning screen too by having at least one tyre too high or too low pressure.

The Grenadier forward (even late releases) doesn’t like the tyres out of the correct position and shows those weird cross overs you see.

For 3rd party programmable sensors you can recode them rather than moving like I did.

I have a third option for the Continental TPMS sensors:
3. swap them out on all five wheels and replace them by your own preferred programmable sensors, like the AUTEL MX sensors.
This is the route I'll planning to go. It's just a little money and work, about 250 Euro in total.

 

[douggie]

Yeah - the Grenadier recognises the spare in tyre monitoring when you put it on!

My latest test shows some positive results. I (using Autel sensor magic)"swapped" the spare i to the Rear Left Tyre. It took 10m but the vehicle placed the spare and started updating dynamic tyre data again.

So what we know to date: (BTW I am an engineer by training and work as a software engineer/architect - and I have had some discussions with the Ineos Dealer technicians - and I have tested all of the techniques below)

TPMS Monitoring Ops for Grenadier (As at Software Update 1946) - and adding Artel TPMS tool as a support for those in the field or with new wheels

1. OBD Relearn - ONLY available at Dealers with the Ineos Test Tool. It must be run properly beginning with Front Right for all 5 wheels. Yes it makes not of the spare(Not available on the Autel TPMS equipment as yet).
2. OBD Relearn by driving - not supported, not required
3. Spare Swap in - support by Grenadier TPMS with at least 10m runtime to recognize (Speed was not confirmed but I did get up to 100kms in 10m - sit it could be distance or time and it ma require a few more minutes, but it does work)
4. Wheel Rotate/Swap - not supported - wheels will report out of position or slightly random, there is priority to some wheels so symptoms are a bot strange
5. Activation - wheel replacement by Copy (Supported by Artel TPMS Tools October September Update or higher (EU market - you must select EU to see the vehicle for the TS508 - v1.99 Vehicles (has incorrect OBD offer), v2.00 is working 100% but offers no OBD checks, nor OBD relearn. You scan your existing set of 4 wheels (no the spare) and it can clone four new MX Sensors for you to be those
6. Activation by manual copy (key the hex 7 characters in manually and code a wheel)
7. Moving wheels around by Autel copy magic - yes can overwrite a sensor, but if pumped up you have to override the tool defaults and allow this feature.

Tyre: Cold Pressure Reset (in Settings) - available and seems to work at ambient temperatures plus a little bit (so can alleviate low pressure and high pressure alerts for a lot of activities)

I have high hopes that Autel will have a version of OBD relearn out in time to allow you to program the wheels based on Autel reading the OEM sensors. Autel's own support page shows you what procedures they support for a vehicle: C means it's Copy (the tool can't help and the car does not Auto relearn either.

https://www.maxitpms.com/tpmscms/getCoverage.jspx

For a car that does - i put my Jeep in and the support said this (You can also copy/cloen if you want to) - I get O/A choices OBD setup from the Artel tool and Auto relearn - where you drive for 20m above 30kmh.

Autel versions differ for each tool and this doesn't tell from when it was supported only status in the current version.

Happy TPMSing all... will advise if anything changes.

My trails and tests are done to my own satisfaction and my new wheels are on and coded (For my 6th spare for those who would ask, I'll code it as the same as the 5th spare and if I have both on the car I will recode one in the field to the value of that real wheel).

Cheers Doug.

 

[Dieter]

Yeah - the Grenadier recognises the spare in tyre monitoring when you put it on!

My latest test shows some positive results. I (using Autel sensor magic)"swapped" the spare i to the Rear Left Tyre. It took 10m but the vehicle placed the spare and started updating dynamic tyre data again.

So what we know to date: (BTW I am an engineer by training and work as a software engineer/architect - and I have had some discussions with the Ineos Dealer technicians - and I have tested all of the techniques below)

TPMS Monitoring Ops for Grenadier (As at Software Update 1946) - and adding Artel TPMS tool as a support for those in the field or with new wheels

1. OBD Relearn - ONLY available at Dealers with the Ineos Test Tool. It must be run properly beginning with Front Right for all 5 wheels. Yes it makes not of the spare(Not available on the Autel TPMS equipment as yet).
2. OBD Relearn by driving - not supported, not required
3. Spare Swap in - support by Grenadier TPMS with at least 10m runtime to recognize (Speed was not confirmed but I did get up to 100kms in 10m - sit it could be distance or time and it ma require a few more minutes, but it does work)
4. Wheel Rotate/Swap - not supported - wheels will report out of position or slightly random, there is priority to some wheels so symptoms are a bot strange
5. Activation - wheel replacement by Copy (Supported by Artel TPMS Tools October September Update or higher (EU market - you must select EU to see the vehicle for the TS508 - v1.99 Vehicles (has incorrect OBD offer), v2.00 is working 100% but offers no OBD checks, nor OBD relearn. You scan your existing set of 4 wheels (no the spare) and it can clone four new MX Sensors for you to be those
6. Activation by manual copy (key the hex 7 characters in manually and code a wheel)
7. Moving wheels around by Autel copy magic - yes can overwrite a sensor, but if pumped up you have to override the tool defaults and allow this feature.

Tyre: Cold Pressure Reset (in Settings) - available and seems to work at ambient temperatures plus a little bit (so can alleviate low pressure and high pressure alerts for a lot of activities)

I have high hopes that Autel will have a version of OBD relearn out in time to allow you to program the wheels based on Autel reading the OEM sensors. Autel's own support page shows you what procedures they support for a vehicle: C means it's Copy (the tool can't help and the car does not Auto relearn either.

https://www.maxitpms.com/tpmscms/getCoverage.jspx

View attachment 7839761

For a car that does - i put my Jeep in and the support said this (You can also copy/cloen if you want to) - I get O/A choices OBD setup from the Artel tool and Auto relearn - where you drive for 20m above 30kmh.

View attachment 7839762

Autel versions differ for each tool and this doesn't tell from when it was supported only status in the current version.

Happy TPMSing all... will advise if anything changes.

My trails and tests are done to my own satisfaction and my new wheels are on and coded (For my 6th spare for those who would ask, I'll code it as the same as the 5th spare and if I have both on the car I will recode one in the field to the value of that real wheel).

Cheers Doug.

@douggie absolutely brilliant summary!
These are exactly the same details I was able to figure out with the TPMS working in the Grenadier, 100% on point!

Another great feature when using the Autel device, you can easily check the pressure of the spare wheel(s).

Just a note, TPMS sensors are active as soon as the vehicle moves, then they are sending data (ID, pressure, temp) regularly every minute or every few seconds. If the wheel don't rotate they send data maybe once per hour or stay silent for longer (this is a feature to save battery), or you have to activate the sensor manually with the Autel device.

 

[Plas12tirion]

Has anyone tried one of these Atec tpms tool on the ineos? Seems simpler than the autel version?

 

[sydmachine]

Is there a way to disable the TPMS, a fuse maybe? This is insanity.

 

[anand]

Is there a way to disable the TPMS, a fuse maybe? This is insanity.

It *shouldn't* be that simple as it is a federal requirement

 

[douggie]

Has anyone tried one of these Atec tpms tool on the ineos? Seems simpler than the autel version?

Why? Autel produce a series of cost effective tool with lifetime updates and they do quarterly updates for cars, sensors and they produce quality affordable programmable aftermarket sensors (unless you own a Porsche apparently)

You buy the ecosystem not the tool. And you are stuck with their sensors fir programmability but Autel’s ones work for my vehicles

Schroeder also produce a TPMS and their own range of universal sensors.

For the Grenadier the issue is nobody’s tool except Ineos’ own does a relearn (info at present as far as I know) and so the magic with Autel is affordable replacement sensors (and you need sensors every 5-10 years as the non-replaceable batteries die)

I like Autel tool as common in Aus, my local BobJane T-Mart has the same model as me. And they were out with the limited Grenadier support in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[parb]

I know this is an older thread but i just want to confirm something.
The autel programmer has two versions:

Amazon.com

and

Amazon.com

The only difference appears to be that the top one above can be updated via wifi vs the second one needs to be connected to a computer.
other than that they are functionally equivalent?

just asking because i intend to have two sets of tires for my car and i'd like to clone the TPMS for the second set.

final Q. the mx-sensors appears to come in multiple frequency models including one that appears to do all frequencies. I assume this is the one i should get?

Amazon.com

the -r and -m seems to indicate the material of the stem which i assume is mostly cosmetic and doesn't make a functional difference?

 

[anand]

I have the WF programmer, and for its first update, it still required to be connected to a PC; the latest update worked over wifi though.

Also, the multi-frequency models should be fine, and yes the rubber/metal stem is up to you.

An oddity to note, I have had the MX sensors installed for 6 weeks and just lost all communication with the sensors, although sometimes they come and go. I think I got a bad batch of sensors because even the Autel tool can't communicate with them. Not trying to sway anyone away from using them, just putting that info into the atmosphere

 

[parb]

Just got the tool on Amazon's sale. Under $200 which made me happy.

I have the MX sensors, they are not yet installed into my new steelies.
I want to clone my sensor id's from my alloy rims so I can swap tires easily but keep the tpms function.

What is the exact procedure I should follow?

 

[anand]

What is the exact procedure I should follow?

After doing the updates, switching to Euro, and turning off TPS Prog limit...

Quick mode, Ineos, Grenadier, select the dates, scan all sensors. Go around and grab the sensor data. Store this (I just took a pic with my phone).

Then you can go to Program sensor; and if I'm not mistaken, Copy by Activation.

If there is a span of time in between scanning the factory sensors, and programming the MX sensors, just use Copy By Manual Input. This will allow you to go around one at a time and program each of the MX sensors by entering the hex ID of the factory sensor in that location (what you wrote down or took a picture of above)