Vehicle rejected after 4 months off the road due to steering geometry being unroadworthy!!!

[Jean Mercier]

Hi Jean Mercier,
Sorry to DaveB. It is an Ineos style of intervention. Ineos are blocking the press from publishing or commenting on or about any of the known inherent steering geometry issues. They were identified on prototype vehicles and never engineered out. Magna, Austria engineered but have never issued any updated parts? So if a manufacturer has a problem, sort it or these days accept the customers media complaints of no resolution after 4 months. Never answering phone calls, emails since December 2023 to End of March 2024. That is not bad luck. That is ducking THEIR PROBLEMS. Treating customers like they do not even exist will be the death of the IG. I do not think they can save the ongoing failure to handle THEIR vehicle’s failings that needs urgent re-engineering - it will not disappear, and is definitely killing their sales.
I have not had bad luck. Just experienced a total lack of Ineos after sales engineering back up to the service agents.

I agree with you on this argument ...

I had hoped that Ineos would be "as a new automotive company" very different of the others, and they told us they would be different, for instance:

• maintenance and technical manuals
• easy to maintain yourself "if you wish" (most people won't, but for some this is very important) - OK, I agree and understand a BMW motor is not easy to maintain yourself.
• maintenance partners everywhere, not far away (Bosch or others)
• really specialized 4x4 dealers

OK, in my case: None of those , I repeat none.

My dealer is a Mercedes dealer, a multinational, not dedicated. Customer service is externalized! No maintenance or technical manuals available.

 

[anand]

Ineos are blocking the press from publishing or commenting on or about any of the known inherent steering geometry issues.

Do you have any proof of this?

 

[Trialmaster]

Do you have any proof of this?

Would like to see proof.

I recall, Jeremy Clarkson and Harry Metcalfe not holding back on their findings when they drove their early demos!

 

[MalcolmT]

I am sorry this happened but still don't understand what the problem was with your steering.
Sounds like it still persisted after they changed the steering box so I assume it must have been other components that were faulty.
My vehicle steers perfectly so possibly they have made changes after yours was delivered and before mine was.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw2CnkkcCb4

@MalcolmT I'd be interested in the engineers report as crabbing in a live axled vehicle suggests a bent axle case or bent suspension links or distorted mounts. Series or mass production is not easy, so some build errors are inevitable; the test of a good manufacturer is how quickly they fix it or replace the vehicle.

The underlying issue sounds like a poor/disinterested dealer. (My vehicle has 20k+ miles on it and a good dealer, same as @Trialmaster!).

Hi Jeremy,

Quite the reverse. The servicing agent is a top professional and true engineer. Ineos never supported or proposed any engineering solution. The servicing agent only had one visit from Ineos after sales 27/1/24 and then end of March. Vehicle VOR since 19/12/24 for more than 4 months, refund made 11/4/24, having rejected the vehicle in February. No response at all from Aftersales from February to nearly end of March when Steve Graham UK Director Aftersales kicked ass.

We have another Grenadier which has all the stupid unresolved issues which one can cope with to a point if there is a true engineered solution. Sadly Ineos are not engineering out their inherent engineering issues.

 

[MalcolmT]

Do you have any proof of this?

Ask your Australian friends to put it on an open media. Those who have been given vehicles to drive and report on have been gagged.

 

[DaveB]

Ask your Australian friends to put it on an open media. Those who have been given vehicles to drive and report on have been gagged.

Didn't see or hear any gagging from this self confessed Toyota fanboy.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Y7DNMUwAI&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=1

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMzqOgFDJ8&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=3

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JP6U7twA3Y&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=4

 

[Jeremy996]

Ineos Automotive in the UK was not geared up for retail sales from the start, so there have been a number of stupidities, one of which being they did not have a process for dealing with rejections, even though consumer protection laws make it compulsory. (I met one of the Ineos employes involved in the process in the Elvedon charity event). Steve is one of the good guys and had to explain the facts of retail motor trade life to IA. (BtoB is much easier! Just contract law and no Consumer Protection).

Getting my early build vehicle on the road was a struggle, as IA kept asking for minor changes to actioned by the dealer and getting it registered was more of a trial that it should have been.

You have my sympathy, but I'm not getting why you consider the geometry to be unroadworthy. All suspension and steering geometry is a series of compromises, usually moderated by elastic bushes and fixed arcs of operation. My truck is acceptable, but then I have spent 18 years driving classic Defenders!

 

[ADVAW8S]

@MalcolmT In this world that is about conspiracies from large corporations screwing over the little guy, your engineering report would be a large shot across the bow. Do you know the number of manufactures and press that would jump on it especially since the press has harped on the steering being not normal . Why are you not able to share?

I remember when the L663 came out and a youtube guy bought one. The electronics crapped the bed. it would not work as advertise and Land Rover wouldn't fix it. He spent months trying to get it fixed and made videos. JLR finally agreed to buy back the vehicle in return he need a gag. Well, he said no and went to town on JLR. He did finally sell it to a third party. The point is unless Ineos is keeping you from saying anything, why aren't you sharing?

 

[OzGrenny]

Should have read ……… had a full engineering report carried out………

Also heard that the BMW is stopping the production of the Grenadier engines. No wonder they launched the EV so children can die whilst mining metals such as Cobalt.

Please state your soures re: BMW dropping the B57 and B58? These engines are used across BMW's 30d & 40i range of vehicles, as well as the Toyota Supra, and is required to support the entire police fleet in Australia which utilises the B57 (530d, X530d, etc.).
The only thing BMW will change in the range is making it Euro 7 compliant which will add a mild-hybrid system.
Has nothing to do with INEOS or the Grenadier or the Fusilier adding an EV option to the range (NOT replacing the internal combustion option as CEO Lynn Calder has stated multiple times).
Tell me you know nothing about the automotive industry without telling me you know nothing.

 

[ADVAW8S]

The B58 is rolling into b58TU2 which is commonly known as TU2. TU2 adds the hybrid system but the guts still are B58

 

[Davman]

I don't think Ronny is being gagged.
He stipulated many times that he would only take the car on loan, if he could give his honest opinions on the car.

A Toyota fanboy youtuber would love nothing more than to highlight all the faults of the Ineos if he could find something to find fault about.

So far...... crickets.

 

[Max]

Ask your Australian friends to put it on an open media. Those who have been given vehicles to drive and report on have been gagged.

I am an Australian friend with a Trialmaster and 22,000klm under her belt. I knew that I was going to have Recirculating ball steering from the start and would have to get used to it, which I have, and now think it is spot-on...especially off road. You may not have expected the play and quirkiness, had you only driven Rack and Pinion or have forgotten what the old Landies were like on road. I am steering a ship and not waiting for it to return to centre and as far as the steering wheel centre line goes, it changes due to the camber of the road. I would liked to have driven your vehicle to feel what you were, I wouldn't mind guessing I had the same with my girl.

 

[Zimm]

If you spent more than five minutes here you would know that DaveB is a Grenadier owner and that the steering oddities are well known and there are solutions for most of them. The pre production vehicles steered like this and the demo vehicles steered like this, and surprise surprise your vehicle steers like this.

Gets my goat when the only contribution people make to this forum is taking a dump on their way out the door. Real story here is man buys car, finds he does not like it and gets his money back.

never pass up a toilet. that's one of my many motto's.

 

[Shopkeep]

This is the first of my many many vehicles that have had the little line at the top of the steering wheel.
I just checked and I think it is off to the left by about 1.2 degrees.
I shall continue to ignore it and just drive the same as I have with the previous 20-30 vehicles I have owned that didn't have one.
Not to mention the hundreds of vehicles I have rented in Australia and Europe/UK

You must have got a good one Dave, my steering wheel sits about 10 degrees to the right. But when required I turn the round leather covered thing in front of me so it stays between the white lines on the road.

 

[DaveB]

You must have got a good one Dave, my steering wheel sits about 10 degrees to the right. But when required I turn the round leather covered thing in front of me so it stays between the white lines on the road.

Yes, touch wood I was very lucky.
Although for the last 6 months I have put up with a faulty rear door latch that ended up only taking two hours to replace.
It is now heaven to have no bongs, flashes, warnings or issues.
As you can see in the video I posted mine tracks down the road with hands off the wheel.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw2CnkkcCb4&t=35s

 

[Eric]

Well here's my Youtube channel

Dave's Ineos Grenadier

Ineos Grenadier dedicated site I have ordered one with the following configuration Grenadier Fieldmaster Edition, BMW 3.0L Twin-Turbo Diesel, Donny Grey, BF Goodrich All-Terrain KO2 Tyre, Access Ladder, Safari Windows, Heat Reflective Privacy Glass, Spare Wheel Lockable Storage Box, Exterior...

www.youtube.com

Here's a video of me collecting my Grenadier ( I have lost a lot of weight since then.)

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bh5_1196QT8


Here's notification of my vehicle being in transit and expected delivery date
View attachment 7858353
I already posted a link to a video I made showing that mine steers perfectly for a solid front axle recirculating ball vehicle.

Ah but, we are all aware of your employment position/situation, but have you know started " moonlighting " for Ineos? You have never told us that before

 

[DaveB]

Ah but, we are all aware of your employment position/situation, but have you know started " moonlighting " for Ineos? You have never told us that before

Ok...time to be totally honest.
I am Sir Jim Ratcliffe's illegitimate son.
You can see by the pictures we are almost identical.
Sam height, weight, build, hair and teeth.
Some people can't tell us apart.
I realise he is only 9 years older than me but.............

 

[NQ94]

Didn't see or hear any gagging from this self confessed Toyota fanboy.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Y7DNMUwAI&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=1

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMzqOgFDJ8&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=3

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JP6U7twA3Y&list=PL9P0owh5Er8I9QDE52jPRp_CAaPyMwnxg&index=4

Loan vehicle reviews are marketing and should be taken with a grain of salt. It is not about the negative points the influencer makes, they need to do this to make reports appear more balanced and keep viewers interested. It's the points that are discreetly omitted and not passed to the reader or viewer that are of more relevance. There will be a contractual agreement with certain nondisclosure clauses for an extended test vehicle given to any influencer from the manufacturer or dealer, it is all about positive marketing and sales.

 

[Tazzieman]

never pass up a toilet. that's one of my many motto's.

Got a 13 hour flight ex Dubai about to board. I agree!

 

[Korg]

You must have got a good one Dave, my steering wheel sits about 10 degrees to the right. But when required I turn the round leather covered thing in front of me so it stays between the white lines on the road.

See your dealer and get it fixed. My steering was crap on delivery but after a wheel alignment adjusting camber and toe along with adjusting air pressure to 36PSI and tightening of loose "tie rod?" nuts the steering is great.