Americas The big May 17 Announcement / Pricing / Discussion thread.

[Krabby]

that may be a benefit to Americans but for Canadians where Ineos documentation indicates that at launch they plan only two dealers that are 3000 miles apart, not so much.

Certainly the case - but I would rather spend $1500 bucks to fly and drive home than put that $1500 "market adjustment" into some greedy dealer's hands.

 

[BroncoBilly]

Certainly the case - but I would rather spend $1500 bucks to fly and drive home than put that $1500 "market adjustment" into some greedy dealers hands.

heck of a drive to get that first oil change done though seriously though that is one of my biggest concerns. I have a drive event on june 7 and then will consider placing an order without the benefit of being able to vet the dealer in Vancouver.

 

[Krabby]

heck of a drive to get that first oil change done though

'tis true. But the adventure itself would be worth the money. At least I'd actually be getting something for my money.

Is it possible for you guys up north to buy a truck in US and import it? Or buy one is Europe and ship it over?

 

[BroncoBilly]

I'm going to be asking about european delivery at the drive event because I'd like nothing better than spending two or three months driving around Europe before having it shipped home. Given the hiccups and management turnover before launch I have to think that the Ineos promise of european delivery just after launch is in jeopardy. The parallel issue to dealer location is alternative approved warranty service locations. As is I'm 4-5 hours, including a ferry ride, away from a Vancouver so servicing on Vancouver Island which has about a million people would be a bonus. Lots of questions and answers before placing an order.

 

[40man]

heck of a drive to get that first oil change done though seriously though that is one of my biggest concerns. I have a drive event on june 7 and then will consider placing an order without the benefit of being able to vet the dealer in Vancouver.

worst case is back out AFTER switching to the other dealer so the marking up dealer loses the sale.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Here is something I was thinking about this morning. There is a incentive for the dealer not to hit us with market adjusted price for the first wave. There is still a large percentage of potential buyers who have not heard or seen the Grenadier. To sell the truck to the masses, they need it out in the street not on the lot. My thoughts are the dealer needs to convert our orders to generate mass buzz. Then they can start slapping on higher prices. Also, I was thinking the higher prices in American could be the spread between what Ineos will charge for wave one and what dealer gets to pocket. Ineos could be making a razor thin margin with the US model to incentive dealerships to take a risk with a new brand.

 

[STACHES]

Here is something I was thinking about this morning. There is a incentive for the dealer not to hit us with market adjusted price for the first wave. There is still a large percentage of potential buyers who have not heard or seen the Grenadier. To sell the truck to the masses, they need it out in the street not on the lot. My thoughts are the dealer needs to convert our orders to generate mass buzz. Then they can start slapping on higher prices. Also, I was thinking the higher prices in American could be the spread between what Ineos will charge for wave one and what dealer gets to pocket. Ineos could be making a razor thin margin with the US model to incentive dealerships to take a risk with a new brand.

Ineos previously said they will be teaming up with existing dealers that are able to absorb a loss for the first couple years.

 

[painter]

'tis true. But the adventure itself would be worth the money. At least I'd actually be getting something for my money.

Is it possible for you guys up north to buy a truck in US and import it? Or buy one is Europe and ship it over?

IIRC it may be possible to import NEW if it is a vehicle sold (and therefore road approved) in both CAN and USA. Used is out until 15 years old so I think an American flipping into Canada is out.

Questions would be:
- when would the Gren make it onto the Canadian Gov list of vehicle approved for importation
- does my reservation work in USA (doubt it)
- would the US dealer sell to a foreigner (dealer territory agreement with IA)
- would paying US sales taxes and then CDN import and sales taxes make it worthwhile (for eg in BC out of Province auto purchases are taxed when first registered in BC)
- how would the local dealer relationship be affected if you didn't buy from them (not a biggie but it could bite)

 

[ADVAW8S]

Ineos previously said they will be teaming up with existing dealers that are able to absorb a loss for the first couple years.

Yes but they are also asking the dealers to build a separate site and not comingle with existing brand. That's upfront capital that is being asked from dealers.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

'tis true. But the adventure itself would be worth the money. At least I'd actually be getting something for my money.

Is it possible for you guys up north to buy a truck in US and import it? Or buy one is Europe and ship it over?

Ineos should facilitate this for us — put a Canadian dealer in Dawson City, Yukon Territory. If you’re gonna have to drive thousands of kilometres to change the oil it might as well be a destination worth going to!! And we can all nip up the Dempster to Tuktoyuktuk as part of the experience - at this point it’s basically on the way”!

Kidding of course, but your second point is exactly what I’m looking at over the next few weeks. I have the benefit of a dual citizenship so I want to explore what it would take to get one delivered to Europe. Im pretty sure there are rules about vehicles needing to be 20+ years old or something to be imported, but that may apply only to vehicles that were not for sale here in Canada like 70-series LCs, but I don’t know.

Beyond importing this poses lots of challenges - having to make sure the steering wheel is on the correct side is important. Egypt is one of our planned destinations and I understand they will not allow right hand driver vehicles enter the country. Again, this is years away for us so I may be wrong on the details or the details might change by then.

We’ve also talked about taking delivery in a totally different country and starting our tour from there — land in Ireland, and take delivery of a new Gren built with the wheel on the correct side. Or maybe getting one via Poland as that would mean the wheel is on the correct side. But then I’d be unsure of whether we can bring it home permanently at the end of the trip, and it’d be a shame if we could not.

Long story short - it would be complex, but it might be worth sorting those complexities out for us if certain other factors make the Gren an undeniably best choice by a large margin. It would be much more expensive and complex that finding a good spec old defender or Land Cruiser, but there’s a huge (potential) benefit to the Gren that we don’t talk about much — and that is, I’d be willing to bet that the Gren, with its CAD-supported design and engineering, will crash way better than those old vehicles. Some of what I’ve seen the New Defender go through — and the vehicles are to be clear totally destroyed — but the occupants walk away is truly impressive. I’m way more likely to experience this than basically any other risk, and this is one of the big reasons for me to still keep the ND on my list.

I am looking forward to seeing how the Gren crashes, even though each time it’ll hurt my heart to see it.

 

[Zimm]

The price should be $15k-$20k lower. Compared to a gwagen or bronco raptor it's a poor value, but compared to a rebuilt defender from one of the several companies producing those, it's a good value.
I'm still getting one because I want a defender copy that has good quality and modern engineering. When I get mine, the engine and transmission will be modded immediately, along with some good looking wheels and 33" or 35" tires.

Modded how?

 

[painter]

We’ve also talked about taking delivery in a totally different country and starting our tour from there — land in Ireland, and take delivery of a new Gren built with the wheel on the correct side. Or maybe getting one via Poland as that would mean the wheel is on the correct side. But then I’d be unsure of whether we can bring it home permanently at the end of the trip, and it’d be a shame if we could not.

Might work best to buy overseas, tour, sell. Come back buy used, tour NA/SA, keep. Fortunately the Gren is good right out of the box.

To minimise purchase taxes you're best bet is prob buy through your own company.

Buying new out of province (ON, YT) I think you'll double up on some taxes.

Reselling for us Canucks means needing/wanting to recoup more new purchase costs than say buyers in the USA.

I tend to agree with the poster who wrote this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Myself. if I don't buy new I'll buy something else and close the book.

Also agree with the poster who wrote like is short.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

Here is something I was thinking about this morning. There is a incentive for the dealer not to hit us with market adjusted price for the first wave. There is still a large percentage of potential buyers who have not heard or seen the Grenadier. To sell the truck to the masses, they need it out in the street not on the lot. My thoughts are the dealer needs to convert our orders to generate mass buzz. Then they can start slapping on higher prices. Also, I was thinking the higher prices in American could be the spread between what Ineos will charge for wave one and what dealer gets to pocket. Ineos could be making a razor thin margin with the US model to incentive dealerships to take a risk with a new brand.

Great point Sean.

Someone else here told me that they've heard of 1 USA dealer who says they won't be adding dealer markup to new IG pricing. Will see.

 

[Zimm]

Here is something I was thinking about this morning. There is a incentive for the dealer not to hit us with market adjusted price for the first wave. There is still a large percentage of potential buyers who have not heard or seen the Grenadier. To sell the truck to the masses, they need it out in the street not on the lot. My thoughts are the dealer needs to convert our orders to generate mass buzz. Then they can start slapping on higher prices. Also, I was thinking the higher prices in American could be the spread between what Ineos will charge for wave one and what dealer gets to pocket. Ineos could be making a razor thin margin with the US model to incentive dealerships to take a risk with a new brand.

I think that sounds nice, but, the dealers didnt give a rats ass about the damage the Bronco debacle did to Ford's rep. Likely because a Ford dealer isn't Ford. It's its own entity. They bought the right to buy Fords and sell them for as much as they can. None of these guys are going to forsake profit for the sole reason of building Ineos a reputation. They don do loss leader pricing. They want an ROI ASAP.

 

[Dso715]

I think that sounds nice, but, the dealers didnt give a rats ass about the damage the Bronco debacle did to Ford's rep. Likely because a Ford dealer isn't Ford. It's its own entity. They bought the right to buy Fords and sell them for as much as they can. None of these guys are going to forsake profit for the sole reason of building Ineos a reputation. They don do loss leader pricing. They want an ROI ASAP.

Previous post. Sell to masses. They will sell them all as soon as they hit. Only 5 k per year. 50 states. 100 per state. A drop in bucket. Let’s see how this all pans out. Deep breaths. Wooo sigh.

 

[Regalz]

I think that sounds nice, but, the dealers didnt give a rats ass about the damage the Bronco debacle did to Ford's rep. Likely because a Ford dealer isn't Ford. It's its own entity. They bought the right to buy Fords and sell them for as much as they can. None of these guys are going to forsake profit for the sole reason of building Ineos a reputation. They don do loss leader pricing. They want an ROI ASAP.

That’s not actually true, there are Jeep dealers who specialize in selling close to 10% under invoice (that’s invoice, not MSRP) and Chevy dealers who sell corvette’s at MSRP. These dealers have a model based on volume and not based on fewer cars with ADM. They get allocations based on their volume so it’s a self fulfilling cycle and they don’t have an incentive to stray from that model.

 

[trobex]

Just me or the latest 'update' have absolutely no information whatsoever that helps anyone? Just confirms what everyone already knows: Late productions, teething issues, cars in dealer yards that cannot be delivered due to parts missing or QA outcomes. Production also seems very slow on actual numbers...

 

[jeremy_matrix]

That’s not actually true, there are Jeep dealers who specialize in selling close to 10% under invoice (that’s invoice, not MSRP) and Chevy dealers who sell corvette’s at MSRP. These dealers have a model based on volume and not based on fewer cars with ADM. They get allocations based on their volume so it’s a self fulfilling cycle and they don’t have an incentive to stray from that model.

Agreed, HOWEVER; those are domestic lines with HUUUUGE sweeping volumes.
We're talking about a bespoke European model, with only 5000 units/yr in the USA. Jeep and Chevy probably sell 5000 vehicles in 3 days.

Just me or the latest 'update' have absolutely no information whatsoever that helps anyone? Just confirms what everyone already knows: Late productions, teething issues, cars in dealer yards that cannot be delivered due to parts missing or QA outcomes. Production also seems very slow on actual numbers...

Us in the USA are still waiting for more details, such as the actual names/locations of sales&service, EPA fuel MPG ratings, etc.

 

[Dso715]

Agreed, HOWEVER; those are domestic lines with HUUUUGE sweeping volumes.
We're talking about a bespoke European model, with only 5000 units/yr in the USA. Jeep and Chevy probably sell 5000 vehicles in 3 days.




Us in the USA are still waiting for more details, such as the actual names/locations of sales&service, EPA fuel MPG ratings, etc.

Mpg rating. Really. Is the 3 mpg gonna make a difference. It has a bmw engine Probably can find a place to fix. Pretend like you built this 4x4 from scratch. You couldn’t do it better and you still wouldn’t have the safety net of warranty and service so many are looking for to make them buy. Enough with the War and Peace on this subject. Your either in or out.

 

[Ichabod]

Mpg rating. Really. Is the 3 mpg gonna make a difference. It has a bmw engine Probably can find a place to fix. Pretend like you built this 4x4 from scratch. You couldn’t do it better and you still wouldn’t have the safety net of warranty and service so many are looking for to make them buy. Enough with the War and Peace on this subject. Your either in or out.

I think that "thud" we heard was a mic drop.