Sir Jim pours more money into Ineos Automotive.

From the Independent,

Man United owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe pours nearly £600m into his car project
Ineos Automotive, which makes the Grenadier offroader, now owes the rest of Sir Jim’s chemical-making empire €2.43bn after it borrowed €710m more

Howard Mustoe
1 day ago

Business | The Independent

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[Toot]

If memory serves I seem to recall GM filing for Bankruptcy some years ago.
Jaguar would be gone if it wasn't for Landrover sales.
Mazda just took a $4.2 Billion loan in 2020 and is not looking good.
Chrysler & Stellantis are just about finished.
Cadillac will be bankrupt soon
McLaren is only just surviving
Mitsubishi cars will probably only last another year or so.
Volvo just cut off Polestar funding and neither will be around in a couple of years.
Buick ditto
Lucid is in hospital on the pump
Lotus.....
Fiskar
Infiniti
Rivian is looking doubtful
Even Ford is struggling

I’m not sure I got your point: are you saying “all car companies are going bankrupt and humanity is going back to the horse and carriage?”

I don’t cover the auto industry, but generally speaking, I think a lot of the Incumbents are victim of the same hangover that stemmed from covid lunacy/rosé colored glasses as other companies elsewhere in the market. Couple that with what *appeared* to be inelastic pricing power during the peak (aka bending their customers over and focusing on price over volume) and a rush into EVs, then yes lots of companies are struggling. Lucid did just beat their sales forecast but I digress.

The point is all these “where’s the confidence in the company” posts are silly and annoying. If you’re worried about the company, don’t buy the car. This is a brand new company, there are bound to be issues. That said, my MB G63 had electrical issues since day 1 and the interior molded so bad while we were gone for the summer that the insurance company totaled it. Our BMW x5 blew not one, but two engines (within the warranty period) and had door panels pop off when closed hard. Even “high quality” legacy cars have catastrophic issues.

This is Ineos’ version one product. It is much better than other upstart auto companies IMO, they’ve gone from 0 to global distribution effectively overnight, and they have a very well heeled founder and parent company backing them. I wouldn’t judge how the company is doing for 5-7 years. Building takes time and no company ever raises all the capital it needs upfront. Similarly, even wildly profitable companies occasionally raise capital or issue debt. I’m sure Jim and his team planned for this to be a decade long phase 1.

Rant over

 

[DaveB]

I’m not sure I got your point: are you saying “all car companies are going bankrupt and humanity is going back to the horse and carriage?”

I don’t cover the auto industry, but generally speaking, I think a lot of the Incumbents are victim of the same hangover that stemmed from covid lunacy/rosé colored glasses as other companies elsewhere in the market. Couple that with what *appeared* to be inelastic pricing power during the peak (aka bending their customers over and focusing on price over volume) and a rush into EVs, then yes lots of companies are struggling. Lucid did just beat their sales forecast but I digress.

The point is all these “where’s the confidence in the company” posts are silly and annoying. If you’re worried about the company, don’t buy the car. This is a brand new company, there are bound to be issues. That said my MB G63 had electrical issues since day 1 and the interior molded so bad while we were gone for the summer that the insurance company totaled it and our BMW x5 blew not one but two engines (within the warranty period) and had door panels pop off when closed hard. This is Ineos’ version one product. It is much better than other upstart auto companies IMO, they’ve gone from 0 to global distribution effectively overnight, and they have a very well heeled founder and parent company backing them. I wouldn’t judge how the company is doing for 5-7 years. Building takes time and no company ever raises all the capital it needs upfront. Similarly, even wildly profitable companies occasionally raise capital or issue debt. I’m sure Jim and his team planned for this to be a decade long phase 1.

Rant over

I agree with you.
My point I guess was that there are a lot of other car companies, new and old, in far worse condition than Ineos is, so everyone should stop carrying on about them closing their doors just because a supplier is having problems.
If you have one, as I do, then stop worrying about seats.
If you don't have one, then decide to buy one or not to buy one.
Easy.

 

[Toot]

I agree with you.
My point I guess was that there are a lot of other car companies, new and old, in far worse condition than Ineos is, so everyone should stop carrying on about them closing their doors just because a supplier is having problems.
If you have one, as I do, then stop worrying about seats.
If you don't have one, then decide to buy one or not to buy one.
Easy.

Exactly! I’ve been pretty quiet on the whining/ fear mongering stuff but it’s getting harder

 

[Tazzieman]

If you don't have one, then decide to buy one or not to buy one.
Easy.

Germany is pretty confident, but 2025 is not 2024
The Best

 

[Toot]

Anecdotally, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a new car roll out so quickly. I’ve now seen more grenadiers in the wild in the US than Rivian’s, even though Rivian has been in market for much longer here. Tesla took a while even after the initial roadster. I’ve only seen a few Lucid’s.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Anecdotally, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a new car roll out so quickly. I’ve now seen more grenadiers in the wild in the US than Rivian’s, even though Rivian has been in market for much longer here. Tesla took a while even after the initial roadster. I’ve only seen a few Lucid’s.

What would be interesting is seeing the concentration of models. Here in Kirkland Wa, we are surrounded by Rivians, Tesla and some lucids. Currently there are 3 Tesla cyber trucks in the neighborhood. 0 Grenadiers

 

[Braydo]

Exactly! I’ve been pretty quiet on the whining/ fear mongering stuff but it’s getting harder

I’m having the same struggle. There’s been a whole lot of hyperventilation for what amounts to a manufacturing disruption.

So now the business people are doing business things.

As for the rest of us - let’s go for a drive

 

[bigleonski]

I’m having the same struggle. There’s been a whole lot of hyperventilation for what amounts to a manufacturing disruption.

So now the business people are doing business things.

As for the rest of us - let’s go for a drive

I struggle with the fact that Ineos was so reliant on one supplier (if it was in fact Recaro - I’m not sure that has even been proven/confirmed by IA) that they needed to close shop for 3-5 months as a result of non delivery. That smells of poor business planning and risk management. That said, sometimes shit happens and you need to take evasive action and move on.
I take it that’s what IA has done, and hope a global business this large (the group, not IA) has the capacity and capability to hang on for the ride and keep on keeping on.

In the meantime - my IG is dirty from a weekend of camping and a few dirt roads and needs a wash - any volunteers to help me give him a scrub? He’s a bastard to clean.

 

[DaveB]

I’m having the same struggle. There’s been a whole lot of hyperventilation for what amounts to a manufacturing disruption.

So now the business people are doing business things.

As for the rest of us - let’s go for a drive

I just took mine for a drive to the bakery and butcher in Howard.
Then drove back.
It included 8 kms of gravel road each way.
Not really a challenge but a bit of fun.
An old video below but this is the road in question

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqi1XwUAi2w