Sir Jim pours more money into Ineos Automotive.

From the Independent,

Man United owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe pours nearly £600m into his car project
Ineos Automotive, which makes the Grenadier offroader, now owes the rest of Sir Jim’s chemical-making empire €2.43bn after it borrowed €710m more

Howard Mustoe
1 day ago

Business | The Independent

The latest breaking news, comment and features from The Independent.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Tx246]

When I read this article, I couldn’t help but wonder when this investment was made. It’s definitely written as though it just happened, but as you read through it, it definitely does not clarify that.

 

[Tx246]

Also, some thing that never really gets talked about, but always stuck in my mind from the original pre-production prototype presentation I went to was Ineos chemical having a need for utilitarian field vehicles for their oil and gas field operations.

It was estimated that they need at least 20,000 with replacements always ongoing and those were going to be grenadiers in the future, I think that’s an important key if true to the overall success

 

[Zimm]

Belstaff jackets for all!

fool me once.......

 

[TD5-90]

It isn't a Chinese car indeed, with parts from Mexico, Hungary, Germany, UK, Italy, Indonesia, Spain, etc. Even something made by a Belgian multinational, but I don't know in which country.

But indeed there are also Chinese parts in the car, like in any mobile phone or electronic equipment.
See this picture I posted a long time ago:

20230514_115007.jpg

www.theineosforum.com

For instance, even my seatbelts have a "made in China" label on it.

Yes, astonishingly many parts are made in China, e.g. the factory rock sliders.

 

[Tazzieman]

Yes, astonishingly many parts are made in China, e.g. the factory rock sliders.

Made from premium Australian iron ore

 

[Toot]

Of course...and the group suffers. And reading that there was a need to fund IA again is not a good sign, at least for me

For me it seems that Ineos chemicals is shifting to the US and Asia. Ratcliffe likes Trump and maybe he hopes on his election which presumably would make his business easier. Less regulations, etc. The site which makes profit in the EU today is one which imports cheap fracking gas from the US. His son will take over more responsibilities in the US business. In Asia is this renewed partnership with Sinopec and they build plants there. There were some press releases where JR has critizized and warned the EU council.

He can not drop IA or he looses his face. 15 years ago his face was unknown even to the majority of Ineos employees, he was just "a name". Nowadays his face is so much linked to projects of his private interest, especially the Grenadier. But the chemical sites always pay. That sums up to a pretty big number...

- Hotels around the worls
- Airline
- Soccer clubs incl. ManU and OCG Nizza
- Australian All Blacks
- many land purchases on Iceland
- National Parc in Tanzania
- Formula 1 Team
- Team Britannia (€50 Mio. starting fee per year)
- Cycling Team "The Grenadiers"
- London Business School

All that was possible because the chemical section earned good money. He should be careful not to dry out his source of wealth and cut their funds off to pay his "projects". Because all above only costs money, incl. IA. The press articled referred to here shows that. Again.

AWo

capital raising for new enterprises is normal. Compared to other fresh start auto companies IA seems to be doing just fine. I don’t think Jim needs any financial advice from us. If he did that would be cause for concern. And for arguments sake, he could put 90% of his net worth into IA, which, at the current rate would take many many many years- well over a decade, and he’d still be a multi billionaire in terms of GBP. All of this reads as good news and standard operating procedure to me as a finance person.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Yes, astonishingly many parts are made in China, e.g. the factory rock sliders.

And the infamous British Belstaff jackets are made in Albania

 

[NQ94]

Made from premium Australian iron ore

Plus the premium coking coal, bauxite and various other Australian sourced minerals sold to China to make Grenadier parts.

 

[Shopkeep]

Of course...and the group suffers. And reading that there was a need to fund IA again is not a good sign, at least for me

For me it seems that Ineos chemicals is shifting to the US and Asia. Ratcliffe likes Trump and maybe he hopes on his election which presumably would make his business easier. Less regulations, etc. The site which makes profit in the EU today is one which imports cheap fracking gas from the US. His son will take over more responsibilities in the US business. In Asia is this renewed partnership with Sinopec and they build plants there. There were some press releases where JR has critizized and warned the EU council.

He can not drop IA or he looses his face. 15 years ago his face was unknown even to the majority of Ineos employees, he was just "a name". Nowadays his face is so much linked to projects of his private interest, especially the Grenadier. But the chemical sites always pay. That sums up to a pretty big number...

- Hotels around the worls
- Airline
- Soccer clubs incl. ManU and OCG Nizza
- Australian All Blacks
- many land purchases on Iceland
- National Parc in Tanzania
- Formula 1 Team
- Team Britannia (€50 Mio. starting fee per year)
- Cycling Team "The Grenadiers"
- London Business School

All that was possible because the chemical section earned good money. He should be careful not to dry out his source of wealth and cut their funds off to pay his "projects". Because all above only costs money, incl. IA. The press articled referred to here shows that. Again.

AWo

Australian All Blacks? For the people of New Zealand them’s fighting words.

 

[DaveB]

Who knows, or dares to dream....

I refuse to waste my dreams on an electric vehicle.
A bit like dreaming about a woman who is good at cooking and housework.

 

[DaveB]

I seriously doubt he used any personal funds to set up IAL, he owns a significant portion of the Ineos group - it will all be group money.

Exactly. Also the money will be a loan not a gift.
It also helps the chemical business with their tax
They lend the money and then only have to pay tax on the interest from the loan not the net profit on their bottom line.
Ineos automotive claim the loan repayments on tax.
Large companies do it all the time, often they will have a parent company division which just does the financing for the rest of the group.

 

[DaveB]

Me personally, I can’t wait for 2025 when the production starts back up and then waiting another 5 plus years later reading about the same detractors saying the brand is still going under. We will see who prevails, and in MY heart and mind I honestly feel it will be the Ineos Grenadier! I believe it will be a vehicle to last many years/decades. I have never seen a product have such a large number of people wanting it to fail. The negative people, I won’t name you but we all know who they are, will say they don’t feel that way. However, you all must not be reading your own posts. I will end with this, regardless of who turns out to be right, I will own at least 2 of the coolest vehicles on the planet and will have them until I’m gone. Now all you non-owning negative posters come at me with ya best shot……

Edit: btw Grenadier owners aren’t you all pleased to read this article as it appears for now Sir. Jim is not gonna let this project go down? I personally don’t care where the money comes from (personal funds, other businesses under the same umbrella, new business partner, a loan shark ), as it shows his commitment to the Grenadier. Hell if he does open a plant in the USA I may even come out of retirement to go to work for Ineos, well that’s if they don’t do a psych eval on possible new hires…..

I think Ineos Automotive will be waying up the costs of getting a new seat supplier and retesting/certifying all over the world, compared to buying Recaro Germany in bankruptcy negotiations.

 

[DaveB]

It isn't a Chinese car indeed, with parts from Mexico, Hungary, Germany, UK, Italy, Indonesia, Spain, etc. Even something made by a Belgian multinational, but I don't know in which country.

But indeed there are also Chinese parts in the car, like in any mobile phone or electronic equipment.
See this picture I posted a long time ago:

20230514_115007.jpg

www.theineosforum.com

For instance, even my seatbelts have a "made in China" label on it.

The bars are also made in China.
By an Australian company but..........

 

[DaveB]

Australian All Blacks? For the people of New Zealand them’s fighting words.

Are there still people in New Zealand??
I thought they had all moved to Australia.

 

[DaveB]

capital raising for new enterprises is normal. Compared to other fresh start auto companies IA seems to be doing just fine. I don’t think Jim needs any financial advice from us. If he did that would be cause for concern. And for arguments sake, he could put 90% of his net worth into IA, which, at the current rate would take many many many years- well over a decade, and he’d still be a multi billionaire in terms of GBP. All of this reads as good news and standard operating procedure to me as a finance person.

If memory serves I seem to recall GM filing for Bankruptcy some years ago.
Jaguar would be gone if it wasn't for Landrover sales.
Mazda just took a $4.2 Billion loan in 2020 and is not looking good.
Chrysler & Stellantis are just about finished.
Cadillac will be bankrupt soon
McLaren is only just surviving
Mitsubishi cars will probably only last another year or so.
Volvo just cut off Polestar funding and neither will be around in a couple of years.
Buick ditto
Lucid is in hospital on the pump
Lotus.....
Fiskar
Infiniti
Rivian is looking doubtful
Even Ford is struggling

 

[Tazzieman]

Are there still people in New Zealand??
I thought they had all moved to Australia.

I've just driven from Ohope Beach to Gisborne for lunch, and there are people here. At least 2 Australians

 

[DaveB]

I've just driven from Ohope Beach to Gisborne for lunch, and there are people here. At least 2 Australians

In theory there are 5.2 million people there but 586,000 of them live in Australia.

 

[Tazzieman]

In theory there are 5.2 million people there but 586,000 of them live in Australia.

Pussies!

 

[HereinDaRockies]

The article refers to last year, not now. Yes, strange that with the Fusilier. I would not call it that enthusiastic "commitment" as this was money from the chemical part, not his private money. Ask the chemical people what they would have needed the money for...And it shows what I have said, IA lacks money. That was the third money transfer from the chemical business to IA.

AWo

what the hell man? "IA lacks money".

Yeah no crap. It's a new automotive venture with huge capital investments up front. Why are you trying to sensationalize a mundane fact?

Ask the chemical people what they would have needed the money for..

Now you are empathetic to the chemical wing!?

 

[ADVAW8S]

If memory serves I seem to recall GM filing for Bankruptcy some years ago.
Jaguar would be gone if it wasn't for Landrover sales.
Mazda just took a $4.2 Billion loan in 2020 and is not looking good.
Chrysler & Stellantis are just about finished.
Cadillac will be bankrupt soon
McLaren is only just surviving
Mitsubishi cars will probably only last another year or so.
Volvo just cut off Polestar funding and neither will be around in a couple of years.
Buick ditto
Lucid is in hospital on the pump
Lotus.....
Fiskar
Infiniti
Rivian is looking doubtful
Even Ford is struggling

All of these have multiple models. It would be simple, if they did one, two or three models and focus on being unique.