Robert Pepper review coming

Really respect Robert Pepper. Very much interested in what he has to say.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02pdDbS2b8Ya2Ua2yN3UZH3DvTvJ1gd8o7Su6KJuehKqU1uZHZuXauCjfoqPqqxrTrl&id=100064327704379

View: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02pdDbS2b8Ya2Ua2yN3UZH3DvTvJ1gd8o7Su6KJuehKqU1uZHZuXauCjfoqPqqxrTrl&id=100064327704379&mibextid=qC1gEa

 

[bigleonski]

I

Next review by Robert will be interesting. I think the rear axle load is very good but what about the front axle when you have a diesel, winch, roo bar and few extras via roof or meat pies...

isn’t the spring / shock set up adjusted by IA at the factory with increased spring rates etc based on those options? Wouldn’t that counter that?

 

[DaveB]

Right.

No. There’s the LC300, which may be discussed in the same context as an IG, with obvious pluses and minuses, and then there’s some Chinese toy car with a dinky engine and a future broken down on the side of the road somewhere.

I must admitted I was surprised.

 

[DCPU]

I

isn’t the spring / shock set up adjusted by IA at the factory with increased spring rates etc based on those options? Wouldn’t that counter that?

We still need more input from actual owners to build a definitive picture:

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/coil-springs.12412069/

 

[MrMike]

Next review by Robert will be interesting. I think the rear axle load is very good but what about the front axle when you have a diesel, winch, roo bar and few extras via roof or meat pies...

I think if you have all the gear, you'll go close to GVM. But...its about how people load their vehicles and vans/campers/trailers. I have a feeling he'll say pulling 3.5T is fraught with danger with an IG, and I know stupidity some will.

 

[bakepl]

I think if you have all the gear, you'll go close to GVM. But...its about how people load their vehicles and vans/campers/trailers. I have a feeling he'll say pulling 3.5T is fraught with danger with an IG, and I know stupidity some will.

yes . similarly how any any dual cab ute rated as towing 3.5t can easily do this....

 

[MrMike]

yes . similarly how any any dual cab ute rated as towing 3.5t can easily do this....

Probably clarify, small to medium DC ute. Ram et al can tow 4.2T.

 

[stickshifter]

For the Jeep hater in the room - you know who you are - Pepper's conclusion:

 

[AnD3rew]

For the Jeep hater in the room - you know who you are - Pepper's conclusion:

View attachment 7822780

He hasn’t released his touring review yet. Where did you get that from?

 

[Wilaspira]

He hasn’t released his touring review yet. Where did you get that from?

The screen grab can be misinterpreted - it was only relating to off-road capabilities. Pepper was not saying the Wrangler Rubicon was a better touring 4x4 he was saying the Rubicon was a more focused off-road vehicle but that the Grenadier was more than capable as an off roader and better than most of its peers. With regard to its touring capability this would be discussed in the next review

 

[YellowLab]

For the Jeep hater in the room - you know who you are - Pepper's conclusion:

View attachment 7822780

I hope it is not at the Wrangler levels - jeep is ranked #38 in quality/reliability in the US - with LR ranked #37 they are thankful everyday for jeep.

 

[AnD3rew]

The screen grab can be misinterpreted - it was only relating to off-road capabilities. Pepper was not saying the Wrangler Rubicon was a better touring 4x4 he was saying the Rubicon was a more focused off-road vehicle but that the Grenadier was more than capable as an off roader and better than most of its peers. With regard to its touring capability this would be discussed in the next review

I think this grab was an on paper review from a while back before he got a chance to see and drive a production one. He has released a video on its offroad performance, he promised another on touring which is yet to come

 

[YellowLab]

I'm looking forward to the Richard Hammond review which should be out in a couple weeks

 

[stickshifter]

The screen grab can be misinterpreted - it was only relating to off-road capabilities. Pepper was not saying the Wrangler Rubicon was a better touring 4x4 he was saying the Rubicon was a more focused off-road vehicle but that the Grenadier was more than capable as an off roader and better than most of its peers. With regard to its touring capability this would be discussed in the next review

Exactly right. Few people would ever choose a Wrangler over the Grenadier for long-range touring / overlanding; the Wrangler lacks payload, and the interior space is smaller. On the other hand, the Wrangler will be the far superior rock-crawler. They are two different tools designed for two different jobs. People who dislike the Wrangler typically fail to understand how incredibly focused it is on its task - technical off-road driving, especially rock-crawling, though it is a hoot on the beach as well - and are upset that it doesn't carve corners like a BMW X5, or they are upset because it cannot carry the same payload as a Toyota 70 series. Catering to either of those end-uses would compromise the Wrangler's phenomenal performance on steep, rocky terrain.

The screenshot came from this video, at about 29:30

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTgupbbRfog

 

[stickshifter]

He hasn’t released his touring review yet. Where did you get that from?

See post immediately above this one.

 

[stickshifter]

I hope it is not at the Wrangler levels - jeep is ranked #38 in quality/reliability in the US - with LR ranked #37 they are thankful everyday for jeep.

What study or data are you referring to? A lot of these reports focus on initial ownership experience, measured by returns to the dealer during the first couple of months of ownership. Most of these returns are glitchy electronic issues - like those being experienced by many Grenadier owners right now. Most Grenadier owners love their vehicle despite these software problems. Is the Grenadier a "bad" vehicle because of its current glitchy software?

Its hard to get good data on the kind of issues that really matter to owners. Of course, what really matters to people will vary, but in general, people want to know the following: Does the vehicle always start? Does it leave you stranded? Does it go into limp-mode for no good reason? And other things like that. So that is why I'm curious about your source. Also, the Wrangler gets lumped in with all other Jeep models when Jeep is evaluated, and the Wrangler has always been a more reliable platform than other models (Liberty, Compass, Grand Cherokee, etc.).

Another problem with these reliability reports in the truck world is that fleet vehicles get abused, and those problems get lumped in with the brand. Here in the U.S., heavy-duty working fleets are made up of Ford, Ram, and Chevy pickup trucks. These vehicles may be run all day long, because workers want to keep the heat or air-con running, and they get run with heavy loads, and maybe pulling heavy trailers. There are no heavy duty Toyota trucks in the U.S., so they are not found in any fleets, suffering the same level of abuse. This is definitely a confounding variable in comparing Toyota reliability to the big three American brands.

I've been driving 4x4s since 1985, and I've owned a heavy-duty Ram diesel, a Jeep CJ and JK, Toyota Landcruisers, pickup trucks, and 4-Runners. The Toyotas were a little more reliable with fewer repair costs than the Jeeps, but not by much. None of them were "problem" vehicles. But that's just one guy's experience, and I keep on top of all required service, and I halve most of the service intervals because my vehicles are regularly driven off-road (hot & dusty, water crossings, lots of steep rocky terrain) and regular on-road driving is over high elevation passes that are hard on a vehicle.

According to the 2023 JD Power rankings in the U.S., Jeep was #18 in 2023, while LR was dead last.

 

[trobex]

What study or data are you referring to? A lot of these reports focus on initial ownership experience, measured by returns to the dealer during the first couple of months of ownership. Most of these returns are glitchy electronic issues - like those being experienced by many Grenadier owners right now. Most Grenadier owners love their vehicle despite these software problems. Is the Grenadier a "bad" vehicle because of its current glitchy software?

Its hard to get good data on the kind of issues that really matter to owners. Of course, what really matters to people will vary, but in general, people want to know the following: Does the vehicle always start? Does it leave you stranded? Does it go into limp-mode for no good reason? And other things like that. So that is why I'm curious about your source. Also, the Wrangler gets lumped in with all other Jeep models when Jeep is evaluated, and the Wrangler has always been a more reliable platform than other models (Liberty, Compass, Grand Cherokee, etc.).

Another problem with these reliability reports in the truck world is that fleet vehicles get abused, and those problems get lumped in with the brand. Here in the U.S., heavy-duty working fleets are made up of Ford, Ram, and Chevy pickup trucks. These vehicles may be run all day long, because workers want to keep the heat or air-con running, and they get run with heavy loads, and maybe pulling heavy trailers. There are no heavy duty Toyota trucks in the U.S., so they are not found in any fleets, suffering the same level of abuse. This is definitely a confounding variable in comparing Toyota reliability to the big three American brands.

I've been driving 4x4s since 1985, and I've owned a heavy-duty Ram diesel, a Jeep CJ and JK, Toyota Landcruisers, pickup trucks, and 4-Runners. The Toyotas were a little more reliable with fewer repair costs than the Jeeps, but not by much. None of them were "problem" vehicles. But that's just one guy's experience, and I keep on top of all required service, and I halve most of the service intervals because my vehicles are regularly driven off-road (hot & dusty, water crossings, lots of steep rocky terrain) and regular on-road driving is over high elevation passes that are hard on a vehicle.

According to the 2023 JD Power rankings in the U.S., Jeep was #18 in 2023, while LR was dead last.

View attachment 7822962

Jeep - the several owners I know who owned them in the last 5-years regretted ever entering the showroom... Wrangler/Chero and several of each. Terrible reliability.

 

[DaveB]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8mP1riKJws

 

[MarkH]

I can see a lot exceeding the front axle load, and maybe GVM when you see them like below with a rack, RTT, awning, drawers, fridge, jerries/fuel pods.
I'll be towing with a 240kg ball weight and will be sailing close, estimate ~25kgs under GVM. TM diesel with roobar, brush bars, side runners, roof bars, cargo barrier, 2 drawers, fridge, 180 awning, No winch.
A 3750 GVM upgrade should be pretty straight forward with the 3817kg combined axle weight so hopefully they become available sooner rather than later.

 

[DCPU]

Excellent video, once again doing the hard work many seem happy to ignore.

The front axle weight does seem to give pause for thought for Oz owners with full "outback" spec.

 

[Loc Nar]

"Plus 2 heavies" - Pepper slinging salt. My guess is Ineos is not providing payload weights for the Trialmaster and Fieldmaster variants because they are (hopefully!) in the process of making changes based upon all the excellent feedback on the initial releases courtesy of this forum and other owners for model year 2024 and beyond. In other words, the payload for those trims (and perhaps even the base Station Wagon) is a moving target right now.

After thinking about this further - I could be dreaming, but for some reason I remember an early Grenadier brochure (not sure which country) that had an asterisk or sword icon or some other footnote at the payload figure that gave adjusted payloads for the TM and FM editions. Does anyone else remember that?