Black Sheep Inovations

[Krabby]

Hi RavenVoice, I was having difficulty reaching Black Sheep Innovations too, however called them from the US early this morning and ended up speaking with Thomas.
I am looking at purchasing their stainless steel rock sliders along with their aluminum bolt-on / bolt-off steps instead of buying the Grenadier side steps or rock sliders.
They look very stout and with the sliders being made of stainless steel, will be less prone to rusting if scraped when off roading. They also have places in them where you can fit a high jack lift to lift the whole side of the vehicle up. The main thing I am trying to find out, (and Thomas said he will get me the information soon), is how high is it up from the ground with a Grenadier stock rims/tires to the top of their bolt-on / bolt-off step. My wife is only 4' 11" and as such, if the height to the top of the step is too high, then it may not work for me. I will say their design looks fantastic on the Grenadier with just the rock sliders and also with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps. Just concerned for my application that perhaps the step is too high and maybe a bit narrow too. They are going to take the measurements and forward them to me the next time they get a Grenadier in and fit it with rock sliders and steps. I will then post the measurements on the forum.
Here's their contact information. The phone number are exactly how you would dial them up from the USA.
BlackSheep Innovations / Located in Zurich.
Phone – Dial 011 41 76 376 70 60
Email: info@blacksheep-innovations.com
Website for their Grenadier Items: https://shop.blacksheep-innovations.com/Rockslider-Ineos-Grenadier.html

Urban Automotive in the UK also has designed some great side steps. I don't think they function as rock sliders, although would provide some protection. Trying to get clarification if they would function as rock sliders too or not. Appear to be made steel instead of stainless steel, however have questions out to them on this too.
Below I will post a YouTube Video showing some of there products including their initial design for their side steps. Fun to watch. They are still 1-3 weeks out from what I gather from posting everything on their website and providing final details and specs. Until then, they are not providing any details.
From what I saw in the YouTube Video it appears their design is superior to the side steps that Grenadier offers. The Grenadier side steps look like they are hanging out into midair space, just don't look right. I love the Grenadier rock sliders, however they can't be used as entry steps as they are too high up and close to the vehicle. The Urban Automotive side step design is a two tube design which looks much better than the Grenadier single tube design. Also Urban Automotive steps appear to be much more in line with the look of the new Defender side steps, (of which I own one and love). The thing with side steps is striking a balance between ease of entry and height for some off roading. On the New Defenders, most all have air shocks so you can lower the vehicle down to entry level, which puts the top of the step just 310mm or 12 1/4” up from the ground, which is a vey comfortable step.

Rovie from the Grenadier forum was kind enough to provide some measurements and photos to me in regard to the Grenadier Side Steps.
The Grenadier side steps appear to measure approximately 395mm or 15 ½” from the ground to the top of the step, which is 85mm or 3 1/4" higher then the New Defender Step. Although higher then the new Defender side steps, likely ok for my wife and a compromise from ease of entry and off road clearance since the Grenadier does not have air bags to lower for ease of entry.

Here's the contact info for Urban Automotive.
Note: If your in the USA, you will have to get all your information from their USA Distributor, Milltekcorp, who can then contact Urban Automotive and get your questions answered. / Details not available until they do their official launch in 1-3 weeks or so.
URBAN AUTOMOTIVE IN THE UK
YouTube Video Link to initial upcoming product ideas for the Grenadier / Fun to Watch

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8XUgpSJks

Urban Automotive Website / Where products will be posted once they go live on their website.
https://www.urban-automotive.co.uk
Phone number to dial if calling from USA to UK
011 44 1 908 978 978 and once online press option 1 and then when connected ask for Parts
Email for Luca at Urban Automotive in the UK: luca@urban-automotive.co.uk
Email for their USA Distributor Milltekcorp: info@urbanusa.com
Direct Email for Frankie Heilmeier at USA Distributor Milltekcorp: frankie@milltekcorp.com

In summary, (sorry for being so verbose, must be because I am in sales), I for one am not going to order the Grenadier Side Steps from Grenadier. I will however be purchasing either the Black Sheep rock sliders with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps or the side steps from Urban Automotive. My initial take is that for those who's main use will be on road around town, then Urban Automotive Side Steps may be best and for those who are more hard core off roaders, go with the Black Sheep rock sliders with bolt-on / bolt-off steps.

I did recommend to Urban to perhaps design some bolt-on / bolt-off steps that could easily be fitted onto the Grenadier Rock Sliders that would provide around town ease of entry and still allow one to unbolt them for more serious off roading. That would be great for all those fitting rock sliders from Grenadier.

If anyone gets additional information before I do, please update us.

Once I hear back from Black Sheep and Urban I will update everyone. DaBull

As of today I think the black sheep combo is the best available - don’t know if that will be the case When trucks start being delivered in NA. I am not getting the IA sliders or steps and will buy an aftermarket solution. My hope is to have them delivered before my IG arrives so I can install right away.

 

[globalgregors]

As of today I think the black sheep combo is the best available - don’t know if that will be the case When trucks start being delivered in NA. I am not getting the IA sliders or steps and will buy an aftermarket solution. My hope is to have them delivered before my IG arrives so I can install right away.

Hi RavenVoice, I was having difficulty reaching Black Sheep Innovations too, however called them from the US early this morning and ended up speaking with Thomas.
I am looking at purchasing their stainless steel rock sliders along with their aluminum bolt-on / bolt-off steps instead of buying the Grenadier side steps or rock sliders.
They look very stout and with the sliders being made of stainless steel, will be less prone to rusting if scraped when off roading. They also have places in them where you can fit a high jack lift to lift the whole side of the vehicle up. The main thing I am trying to find out, (and Thomas said he will get me the information soon), is how high is it up from the ground with a Grenadier stock rims/tires to the top of their bolt-on / bolt-off step. My wife is only 4' 11" and as such, if the height to the top of the step is too high, then it may not work for me. I will say their design looks fantastic on the Grenadier with just the rock sliders and also with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps. Just concerned for my application that perhaps the step is too high and maybe a bit narrow too. They are going to take the measurements and forward them to me the next time they get a Grenadier in and fit it with rock sliders and steps. I will then post the measurements on the forum.
Here's their contact information. The phone number are exactly how you would dial them up from the USA.
BlackSheep Innovations / Located in Zurich.
Phone – Dial 011 41 76 376 70 60
Email: info@blacksheep-innovations.com
Website for their Grenadier Items: https://shop.blacksheep-innovations.com/Rockslider-Ineos-Grenadier.html

Urban Automotive in the UK also has designed some great side steps. I don't think they function as rock sliders, although would provide some protection. Trying to get clarification if they would function as rock sliders too or not. Appear to be made steel instead of stainless steel, however have questions out to them on this too.
Below I will post a YouTube Video showing some of there products including their initial design for their side steps. Fun to watch. They are still 1-3 weeks out from what I gather from posting everything on their website and providing final details and specs. Until then, they are not providing any details.
From what I saw in the YouTube Video it appears their design is superior to the side steps that Grenadier offers. The Grenadier side steps look like they are hanging out into midair space, just don't look right. I love the Grenadier rock sliders, however they can't be used as entry steps as they are too high up and close to the vehicle. The Urban Automotive side step design is a two tube design which looks much better than the Grenadier single tube design. Also Urban Automotive steps appear to be much more in line with the look of the new Defender side steps, (of which I own one and love). The thing with side steps is striking a balance between ease of entry and height for some off roading. On the New Defenders, most all have air shocks so you can lower the vehicle down to entry level, which puts the top of the step just 310mm or 12 1/4” up from the ground, which is a vey comfortable step.

Rovie from the Grenadier forum was kind enough to provide some measurements and photos to me in regard to the Grenadier Side Steps.
The Grenadier side steps appear to measure approximately 395mm or 15 ½” from the ground to the top of the step, which is 85mm or 3 1/4" higher then the New Defender Step. Although higher then the new Defender side steps, likely ok for my wife and a compromise from ease of entry and off road clearance since the Grenadier does not have air bags to lower for ease of entry.

Here's the contact info for Urban Automotive.
Note: If your in the USA, you will have to get all your information from their USA Distributor, Milltekcorp, who can then contact Urban Automotive and get your questions answered. / Details not available until they do their official launch in 1-3 weeks or so.
URBAN AUTOMOTIVE IN THE UK
YouTube Video Link to initial upcoming product ideas for the Grenadier / Fun to Watch

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8XUgpSJks

Urban Automotive Website / Where products will be posted once they go live on their website.
https://www.urban-automotive.co.uk
Phone number to dial if calling from USA to UK
011 44 1 908 978 978 and once online press option 1 and then when connected ask for Parts
Email for Luca at Urban Automotive in the UK: luca@urban-automotive.co.uk
Email for their USA Distributor Milltekcorp: info@urbanusa.com
Direct Email for Frankie Heilmeier at USA Distributor Milltekcorp: frankie@milltekcorp.com

In summary, (sorry for being so verbose, must be because I am in sales), I for one am not going to order the Grenadier Side Steps from Grenadier. I will however be purchasing either the Black Sheep rock sliders with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps or the side steps from Urban Automotive. My initial take is that for those who's main use will be on road around town, then Urban Automotive Side Steps may be best and for those who are more hard core off roaders, go with the Black Sheep rock sliders with bolt-on / bolt-off steps.

I did recommend to Urban to perhaps design some bolt-on / bolt-off steps that could easily be fitted onto the Grenadier Rock Sliders that would provide around town ease of entry and still allow one to unbolt them for more serious off roading. That would be great for all those fitting rock sliders from Grenadier.

If anyone gets additional information before I do, please update us.

Once I hear back from Black Sheep and Urban I will update everyone. DaBull

Gents the only other suggestion here is to make sure you have a chat with your local 4wd/fabrication shop.

This is not a complex component to design and fabricate, and they will offer you whatever attribute you require in terms of material, design and finish - likely for a cost competitive with the imported item.
Look after your local small businesses etc etc.

 

[RavenVoice]

Hi RavenVoice, I was having difficulty reaching Black Sheep Innovations too, however called them from the US early this morning and ended up speaking with Thomas.
I am looking at purchasing their stainless steel rock sliders along with their aluminum bolt-on / bolt-off steps instead of buying the Grenadier side steps or rock sliders.
They look very stout and with the sliders being made of stainless steel, will be less prone to rusting if scraped when off roading. They also have places in them where you can fit a high jack lift to lift the whole side of the vehicle up. The main thing I am trying to find out, (and Thomas said he will get me the information soon), is how high is it up from the ground with a Grenadier stock rims/tires to the top of their bolt-on / bolt-off step. My wife is only 4' 11" and as such, if the height to the top of the step is too high, then it may not work for me. I will say their design looks fantastic on the Grenadier with just the rock sliders and also with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps. Just concerned for my application that perhaps the step is too high and maybe a bit narrow too. They are going to take the measurements and forward them to me the next time they get a Grenadier in and fit it with rock sliders and steps. I will then post the measurements on the forum.
Here's their contact information. The phone number are exactly how you would dial them up from the USA.
BlackSheep Innovations / Located in Zurich.
Phone – Dial 011 41 76 376 70 60
Email: info@blacksheep-innovations.com
Website for their Grenadier Items: https://shop.blacksheep-innovations.com/Rockslider-Ineos-Grenadier.html

Urban Automotive in the UK also has designed some great side steps. I don't think they function as rock sliders, although would provide some protection. Trying to get clarification if they would function as rock sliders too or not. Appear to be made steel instead of stainless steel, however have questions out to them on this too.
Below I will post a YouTube Video showing some of there products including their initial design for their side steps. Fun to watch. They are still 1-3 weeks out from what I gather from posting everything on their website and providing final details and specs. Until then, they are not providing any details.
From what I saw in the YouTube Video it appears their design is superior to the side steps that Grenadier offers. The Grenadier side steps look like they are hanging out into midair space, just don't look right. I love the Grenadier rock sliders, however they can't be used as entry steps as they are too high up and close to the vehicle. The Urban Automotive side step design is a two tube design which looks much better than the Grenadier single tube design. Also Urban Automotive steps appear to be much more in line with the look of the new Defender side steps, (of which I own one and love). The thing with side steps is striking a balance between ease of entry and height for some off roading. On the New Defenders, most all have air shocks so you can lower the vehicle down to entry level, which puts the top of the step just 310mm or 12 1/4” up from the ground, which is a vey comfortable step.

Rovie from the Grenadier forum was kind enough to provide some measurements and photos to me in regard to the Grenadier Side Steps.
The Grenadier side steps appear to measure approximately 395mm or 15 ½” from the ground to the top of the step, which is 85mm or 3 1/4" higher then the New Defender Step. Although higher then the new Defender side steps, likely ok for my wife and a compromise from ease of entry and off road clearance since the Grenadier does not have air bags to lower for ease of entry.

Here's the contact info for Urban Automotive.
Note: If your in the USA, you will have to get all your information from their USA Distributor, Milltekcorp, who can then contact Urban Automotive and get your questions answered. / Details not available until they do their official launch in 1-3 weeks or so.
URBAN AUTOMOTIVE IN THE UK
YouTube Video Link to initial upcoming product ideas for the Grenadier / Fun to Watch

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8XUgpSJks

Urban Automotive Website / Where products will be posted once they go live on their website.
https://www.urban-automotive.co.uk
Phone number to dial if calling from USA to UK
011 44 1 908 978 978 and once online press option 1 and then when connected ask for Parts
Email for Luca at Urban Automotive in the UK: luca@urban-automotive.co.uk
Email for their USA Distributor Milltekcorp: info@urbanusa.com
Direct Email for Frankie Heilmeier at USA Distributor Milltekcorp: frankie@milltekcorp.com

In summary, (sorry for being so verbose, must be because I am in sales), I for one am not going to order the Grenadier Side Steps from Grenadier. I will however be purchasing either the Black Sheep rock sliders with their bolt-on / bolt-off steps or the side steps from Urban Automotive. My initial take is that for those who's main use will be on road around town, then Urban Automotive Side Steps may be best and for those who are more hard core off roaders, go with the Black Sheep rock sliders with bolt-on / bolt-off steps.

I did recommend to Urban to perhaps design some bolt-on / bolt-off steps that could easily be fitted onto the Grenadier Rock Sliders that would provide around town ease of entry and still allow one to unbolt them for more serious off roading. That would be great for all those fitting rock sliders from Grenadier.

If anyone gets additional information before I do, please update us.

Once I hear back from Black Sheep and Urban I will update everyone. DaBull

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually did order the Ineos side runners but they did not arrive with my vehicle (there’s loads of stuff missing that I’m still waiting for). At the time of order there was no other choice but the Ineos offerings &; while I would have preferred the rock sliders, the side runners were the only option because I have 3 small kids & a short wife.

The Black Sheep offfering would definitely be my first choice if I were able to cancel the Ineos steps but that isn’t an option unfortunately (just have to keep playing the Ineos waiting game & lifting my kids in & out in the meantime). If I really don’t like them when they come then I might try Black Sheep again & then replace them.

The immediate reason I wanted to speak to Black Sheep though was regarding the Road legality of their various side-mounted carrying systems etc. as I wanted to purchase something straight away for carrying water canisters etc. but need to make sure that whatever I get is definitely Road legal in the UK.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I haven't as yet got my steps. I did order and pay for them but so far none have arrived. As it happens I have had no real issues climbing in and out of the vehicle anyway. Wondering if I can cancel the original side steps and choose an aftermarket set instead.

 

[DCPU]

Wondering if I can cancel the original side steps and choose an aftermarket set instead.

I think you should, if only to navigate a route though Ineos' opaque systems.

 

[rovie]

I think you should, if only to navigate a route though Ineos' opaque systems.

Yes, the link with the plugs works for me too. I thought you had another one with the tool.

 

[Trialmaster]

A worthwhile video on Black Sheep.

I like the forthcoming light bar and all the other stuff he produces. Will order the light bar and roof rack if I can find a purpose for it.

View: https://youtu.be/mfrOQrnbCU8

 

[Tom109]

We've all seen Camel Trophy vehicles with roof racks "overloaded" according to the weight limits listed for such racks. However, there was a discussion on one of the Landrover forums that the limiting factor applied for the weight limit was actually the quoted tilt angle the vehicle would go to without falling over.

Keep in mind the Camel LR Discovery roof racks were bolted through the roof to internal roll cages. So the roof/gutter loads were effectively bypassed and it was simply a game of managing CG and preventing rollover (or not and just righting them afterward).

I need a full rack so I ordered the IG Rhino rack. I think this design could be perform very well at maximum load due to the one-piece side-rail/feet.

 

[Regalz]

A worthwhile video on Black Sheep.

I like the forthcoming light bar and all the other stuff he produces. Will order the light bar and roof rack if I can find a purpose for it.

View: https://youtu.be/mfrOQrnbCU8

That light bar will be mine the day they are available

 

[Pat-Ard]

That light bar will be mine the day they are available

+1

 

[DCPU]

Keep in mind the Camel LR Discovery roof racks were bolted through the roof to internal roll cages. So the roof/gutter loads were effectively bypassed and it was simply a game of managing CG and preventing rollover (or not and just righting them afterward).

Yes, I'm thinking more of the 80's vehicles, both land rovers and range rovers were the racks were only ever bolted to the gutters.

 

[Jmccmick]

After seeing the rhinorack in person at the Vancouver demo I am now leaning towards getting it with the truck instead of later. Its relatively low profile, certainly better than ARB and Frontrunner racks ive had on other vehicles, is solid, and has pretty good options for loading accessories and adjusting. Also, it really does seems to have a bearing on the rest of the truck. The guys there said springs are selected based on the weight of the vehicle with ordered accessories, and that the winch just uprated the front springs, while additional accessories uprated the rear as well. I want rock sliders but am less keen on these as offer no protection from the sides or utility as a step. If someone had a bolt solution that served as tree/car door protection/step i would just go with thee ineos offering but i havent seen anything quite along those lines yet.

 

[Christian W]

The Grenadier has a dynamic roof load rating of 150kg, that means any structure above the top of the door (ie the roof structure)is rated to handle max 150kg Cargo with the weight born by the roof.

Sorry for digging out this old post.
Are you sure the 150kg limit for dynamic roof load is structurally? The Grenadier is designed to protect the passengers also in case of rolling over. In such a case the roof load is significantly higher (ok, dents to be expected). I would assume is basically for driving stability, to keep the center of mass low.

 

[Xrford]

Sorry for digging out this old post.
Are you sure the 150kg limit for dynamic roof load is structurally? The Grenadier is designed to protect the passengers also in case of rolling over. In such a case the roof load is significantly higher (ok, dents to be expected). I would assume is basically for driving stability, to keep the center of mass low.

That statement was in regard to the maximum dynamic roof cargo carrying capacity and is not the same as the weight it can support in a roll over scenario. The new cargo capacity of the roof has since been down graded in the most recent brochure. Take a look at this thread Here for further clarification.

 

[bmore_burnsy]

Has anyone installed the BS sheep roof carrier (with or without the third/extension piece) and if so, can you comment on the amount of wind noise from the rack (if any)?

 

[minidok]

Voilà, new version of roof rack @7:20 from blacksheep innovations

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40ffkv-_v0w&t=23s&pp=ygUKQmxhY2tzaGVlcA%3D%3D

 

[AnD3rew]

Voilà, new version of roof rack @7:20 from blacksheep innovations

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40ffkv-_v0w&t=23s&pp=ygUKQmxhY2tzaGVlcA%3D%3D

Really good explanation of why he chose the rails and why it is secure. Once he has an Australian distribution and can hopefully lower shipping prices I will likely get his roof platform. O slightly disagree on the gutter. I had a good look at the gutter and a chat with my agent at the Sydney 4x4 show. The gutter is actually extremely solid, however just because of its sheer width the leverage on the outside will allow you to flex it. It will be critical if you use gutter mounts that the legs sit close to the body and the clamps underneath also extend right under to close to the body. The Rhino bespoke system does that and it’s critical that any aftermarket system also does that.

But I do like that black sheep is putting 70% of the load on the roof, and the rest on multiple points on the grab handles, which in turn have multiple points of connection to one of the strongest parts of the body/roof structure.

 

[ED Mulrenin]

I've measured to IG with the rack, it comes to 2110mm

what size tires were used in both cases?

 

[Tom109]

In that video the gutter adjacent to the tie-down cutouts seem to flex while the rest of the gutter is solid. I think that is important when selecting rack attachment points along the gutter - align them outside of the tie-down cutouts.

 

[MrMike]

what size tires were used in both cases?

Standard 265 70 17s but 18 would make no real difference IMO