Potential Buyer Having trouble with Marketing vs. Reality

[Tazzieman]

I can almost smell the Doritos from here.

Survival tip

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2058448687607622

View: https://www.facebook.com/BCFAustralia/videos/2058448687607622/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

 

[AnD3rew]

I’d add that detuning in and of itself doesn’t signal anything other than it was an engineering choice. Take the Volvo D13 engine for example. I have 3 in my boat making 1000hp each. They are D13 IPS 1350s and are for “pleasure craft.” The same motor for “commercial use” in marine applications actually features beefier components and interchangers but is detuned to 600-800hp depending on the application. Then for non marine applications where it’s in a semi truck, for example, the HP ranges from 350-500hp. Just saying detuning means very little and certainly doesn’t imply cost savings. I would very much like to see data points and/or a statement from the company that shows a cost saving measure vs. an engineering decision.

Agree. I think in this case “detuning” would be better described as retuning more than anything else to better adapt torque curves etc to suit a large heavy vehicle that needs to be able to operate in heavy low speed situations and tow etc.

 

[AnD3rew]

Not really, just trying to be accurate, but the diesels are really good now that you mention it.

I commonly post engine type and model, I am not rubbing anything in, it was a fact. It helps people understand and pick up differences between models and countries.

The diesel is a bit agricultural sounding and feeling (I like this, this isn’t a downside for me) but its so sweet to drive on and off road.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Did INEOS over promise and under deliver on ability to get support and to be able to do a lot of work yourself? Yes absolutely...

But there are also unrealistic expectations here from owners on the ability for your average amateur mechanic to work on modern engines and transmissions, basic servicing sure, complex issues no and this is in no way unique to INEOS/BMW.

This pretty much sums it up. I don't think Ineos helped themselves much by setting a bunch of expectations they couldnt deliver on - but that was largely a product of their naivete and inexperience.

This all started with "If I could do it my way..." only to find out - even with gobs of money, you can't always just do it your way.

 

[Toot]

Really just echoing much of what has been said above but my 2c.

Did INEOS over promise and under deliver on ability to get support and to be able to do a lot of work yourself? Yes absolutely, here in Australia we were promised and extensive network of both full agents and also support from a wide network of Bosch services centres. The agents have been mostly delivered the fill in service centres not at all. They promised “flying spanners” and while I know they have gone out of their way to support many owners this was a bit hyperbolic. They promised detailed service manuals and still say that in some form they are on the way, they have yet to materialise and we don’t even have basic wiring diagrams. Having said all that I have had excellent support so far from my local dealer and the community here is excellent for information and support.

Hopefully someone will eventually jailbreak the diagnostics and provide an OBd2 reader that is fully compatible. But the basic codes can be read and cleared.

But there are also unrealistic expectations here from owners on the ability for your average amateur mechanic to work on modern engines and transmissions, basic servicing sure, complex issues no and this is in no way unique to INEOS/BMW.

In terms of BMW. The two engines chosen are about as good as things get from a
BMW perspective and up there across the whole market.

Well said.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Survival tip

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2058448687607622

View: https://www.facebook.com/BCFAustralia/videos/2058448687607622/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

Dude - no way. That is insane. I was going to say that it makes you wonder about the chemicals you ingest with that garbage, but then I recall that the single largest source of highly processed food additives, especially “cheese” themed, come from here in Madison at the University of Wisconsin. You are welcome, world. I’ll be sure to pack a bag of Doritos in my go-bag - ready for the Apocalypse. And since today is Election Day in the US - none too soon! Thanks for the tip. I guess we’re saying . . . “Wallabies???”

 

[bikesandguitars]

When I placed my order for my Grenadier here in the States, I don’t believe I was under the impression that there was going to be an organized network of support centers by any given date. If I recall correctly, we were still coming out of the pandemic. Supply chains were a mess. It would have been foolhardy for any company to promise something like that. My expectations were low - and they’ve been met!

 

[irtmks]

The Raptor is becoming somewhat de rigueur around the Old Town Scottsdale and Biltmore neighborhoods. It’s to the point that you might have trouble figuring out which Raptor is yours when you get to the parking lot. I would remind you that you have a new Ineos dealership in Glendale and Owl Manufacturing just down the street. You have relatively easy access to dealer maintenance and killer aftermarket upgrades, much moreso than the vast majority of owners. For instance, my dealer is 5 hours round trip.

As others have said, it’s the service reminders that can’t be accessed by mere mortals - yet. Supposedly, more service centers and a diagnostic / repair manual are in the works. But if having a dealer in your backyard and some of the best aftermarket upgrades a stones throw away still isn’t good enough, play it safe and get the Raptor.

You can always kick yourself later.

I don't need to "Get" the Raptor, I "have" the Raptor for the last few 4 years. It has been amazing. Back when I purchased, Ford sent you to a 2 day play on their Baja course in Utah. We pushed them hard. Very reliable. I wish it towed a bit more (One reason looking at the Grenadier). I appreciate all the input. I will wait until after the election here in the USA to see what might be my future vehicle. Thanks again

 

[Toot]

I don't need to "Get" the Raptor, I "have" the Raptor for the last few 4 years. It has been amazing. Back when I purchased, Ford sent you to a 2 day play on their Baja course in Utah. We pushed them hard. Very reliable. I wish it towed a bit more (One reason looking at the Grenadier). I appreciate all the input. I will wait until after the election here in the USA to see what might be my future vehicle. Thanks again

Does this mean the thread is over now

 

[Zimm]

Dude - no way. That is insane. I was going to say that it makes you wonder about the chemicals you ingest with that garbage, but then I recall that the single largest source of highly processed food additives, especially “cheese” themed, come from here in Madison at the University of Wisconsin. You are welcome, world. I’ll be sure to pack a bag of Doritos in my go-bag - ready for the Apocalypse. And since today is Election Day in the US - none too soon! Thanks for the tip. I guess we’re saying . . . “Wallabies???”

A calorie is a calorie. Potato chips do the same thing.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

 

[bikesandguitars]

I don't need to "Get" the Raptor, I "have" the Raptor for the last few 4 years. It has been amazing. Back when I purchased, Ford sent you to a 2 day play on their Baja course in Utah. We pushed them hard. Very reliable. I wish it towed a bit more (One reason looking at the Grenadier). I appreciate all the input. I will wait until after the election here in the USA to see what might be my future vehicle. Thanks again

It seems like a really good time to get rid of things we’ve had for the last few 4 years… just sayin’ .
I think you’ll enjoy the Grenadier. I had a Bronco Wildtrak previously. Had it in Moab several times. I liked it just fine. I’m a lot more smitten with the Grenadier.