Potential Buyer Having trouble with Marketing vs. Reality

[irtmks]

So we are considering moving from a Ford Raptor to a Trialmaster.

Acknowledging that I don't "need" an Ineos vehicle and that my desire would be more of a "want," I strive to understand the Company, the Marketing, and the Vehicle as a total purchase. I simply want to "buy-in" to the whole package.

Where I am struggling is with the BMW portion of that overall package. Please understand, I do have bias based on a many year interaction (4 BMW's I believe) with the company. I also worked as an Engineer for 18 years for a company in Freudenstadt, Germany. Yes, I do hold some historic bias.

The struggle that bothers me is the Marketing notion that this Grenadier is a solid mule of a beast that, like years gone by vehicles can traverse the worst and most remote parts of the globe. When a "Service Center" is not convenient as you explore Chad Africa, or the Australian Western Plateau, you simply do as we old timers did, pull out the wrenches, the wire, the tape and fix whatever is needed. I have watched with great interest this Marketing ideal explained and viewed in so many videos and literature.

If this was really, really the intent, why must we, must we, must we find a BMW Service Center to get an oil change? The same greasy, dusty, dirty fellow that can fix anything on his Grenadier seemingly can't change the oil? Must I return from my remote expedition so I can have a BMW Service Center read or reset a fault code? Apparently the same fellow who is told you have the best "Old School" modern vehicles that can go anywhere on this planet is NOT capable of plugging a dongle into the OBD2 port and pushing a button named "clr." What? The hypocrisy seems either overlooked or insulting, I am not yet judging.

 

[anand]

If this was really, really the intent, why must we, must we, must we find a BMW Service Center to get an oil change? The same greasy, dusty, dirty fellow that can fix anything on his Grenadier seemingly can't change the oil? Must I return from my remote expedition so I can have a BMW Service Center read or reset a fault code? Apparently the same fellow who is told you have the best "Old School" modern vehicles that can go anywhere on this planet is NOT capable of plugging a dongle into the OBD2 port and pushing a button named "clr." What? The hypocrisy seems either overlooked or insulting, I am not yet judging.

Any one can do the oil change, resetting the service indicator, and this time, is only by an Ineos dealer (BMW cannot do this). BMW scan tools cannot natively read anything other than generic OBD2 codes from the vehicle like any one else can.

Generic OBD2 scan tools can read and clear engine DTCs just fine.

Have less tech than this in 2024 is, unfortunately, simply not feasible in a new vehicle

 

[Jeremy996]

The marketing is a little fanciful - rugged is one thing, but it is impossible to get a modern vehicle type approved without a load of electronics covering emissions, brakes, ADAS, eCall and that is before you consider the electronic junk now considered essential like infotainment and central locking.

Ineos Automotive was caught out by the various requirements for the logging of emissions based maintenance by the manufacturer, (one of the reasons for the delay on the manual release), but they did consider that the software had to allow the vehicle some resilience if a sensor went down. Components have been chosen for service life and ruggedness and are often massive compared to the alternatives, that's why the Grenadier is so heavy. The BMW engine is tuned specially for torque and durability, now owners want to tweak them up!

If you want a more 'mechanical' vehicle, you must buy an old one! (And deal with the old-school issues inherent in them - my LR110CSW 200Tdi needed heavy maintenance after 200,000 miles, so was fit to be changed).

 

[globalgregors]

So we are considering moving from a Ford Raptor to a Trialmaster.

Acknowledging that I don't "need" an Ineos vehicle and that my desire would be more of a "want," I strive to understand the Company, the Marketing, and the Vehicle as a total purchase. I simply want to "buy-in" to the whole package.

Where I am struggling is with the BMW portion of that overall package. Please understand, I do have bias based on a many year interaction (4 BMW's I believe) with the company. I also worked as an Engineer for 18 years for a company in Freudenstadt, Germany. Yes, I do hold some historic bias.

The struggle that bothers me is the Marketing notion that this Grenadier is a solid mule of a beast that, like years gone by vehicles can traverse the worst and most remote parts of the globe. When a "Service Center" is not convenient as you explore Chad Africa, or the Australian Western Plateau, you simply do as we old timers did, pull out the wrenches, the wire, the tape and fix whatever is needed. I have watched with great interest this Marketing ideal explained and viewed in so many videos and literature.

If this was really, really the intent, why must we, must we, must we find a BMW Service Center to get an oil change? The same greasy, dusty, dirty fellow that can fix anything on his Grenadier seemingly can't change the oil? Must I return from my remote expedition so I can have a BMW Service Center read or reset a fault code? Apparently the same fellow who is told you have the best "Old School" modern vehicles that can go anywhere on this planet is NOT capable of plugging a dongle into the OBD2 port and pushing a button named "clr." What? The hypocrisy seems either overlooked or insulting, I am not yet judging.

Having now driven ours across both the Australian Western Plateau and also North America we can confirm that the vehicle delivers on the promise.

Respondents above have already corrected the misconceptions in your post, but please feel free to DM with any questions regarding remote use, interacting with the Ineos mothership etc.

We’ve received excellent support from Ineos throughout, and have enjoyed the emerging international community that comes along with owning a marque like this.

 

[landmannnn]

There are many different expectations of the vehicle.

On one hand people are saying that there are too many computers, not enough underbody protection or big enough tyres to drive through dangerous zones in Africa or the Australian desert. You can definitely do this (if you dare) although you will be spending considerable amounts of money to prepare the vehicle for expeditions, as with most vehicles.

On the other hand people are complaining about the sound system, seat comfort or cup holders. Again they are spending thousands on audio upgrades and fancy leather.

The vehicle is in fact a platform to do as much or as little as you want. Upgrades and modifications are not difficult, the platform has been made in such a way that most changes are straightforward.

The Grenadier is not for everybody, not at all. But for the vast majority of owners they are please with their choice.

 

[rur42]

Speaking to your marketing promise... the fix it yourself, anywhere, anytime, with great part availability, repair manual, etc. I feel the same, a little bit let down. But it's early days still and I think they'll get that sorted eventually. I wouldn't let that hold you back. In the meantime, there's lots of good information and support on these forums.

 

[Toot]

I echo the others. Overall for what it is I love it and think they nailed it. I have a number of cars including a gt3, 911 turbo s, g wagon and Yukon… Lately my shit eating grin/happiness factor has been highest in the Grenadier. It just checks a box for me in so many ways and many of the quirks/faults end up being part of what makes it great I think. So, negating the dealer network stuff, which is getting better every other week it seems, I give the car itself 10/10 - only you can decide if you’re close enough to a dealer to be ok though.

Massive caveats however*** I use mine to bop around the Hamptons and go upstate in New York, Connecticut, etc etc. I plan to ship it out west in the spring and do some trips/exploring out there. It sounds like this won’t be your primary vehicle. I do think if this is going to be a primary vehicle you may miss things other cars have/come standard with- think tech and comfort packages; there are no ventilated seats, Burmester sound systems, nor surround view cameras to be found in the Grenadier, yet I don’t care. I have yet to say to myself anything along the lines of “oh man this would really be great if only it had heated cup holders, autopilot, and massage seat!” All that kind of stuff would detract from the experience IMO. And, if I really wanted a “tech-forward,” massage capable, iPad with wheels, I’d just get a Tesla. Having owned pick-ups and Jeeps in the past, I feel like this is a different and better experience, for me. I do, however, only go on the interstate if I have to. If I need to drive into NYC, Boston, DC or something I’m taking the Yukon or something else that’s a better highway cruiser. So I think a huge part of my love/non-annoyance has to do with that I don’t need to use it as a primary vehicle and generally try to avoid long commutes/trips unless it’s necessary to end up get off-road and exploring somewhere.

Also, some fair warning; the after market parts market is getting very robust and one modification tends to lead to another! I’ve really enjoyed modifying mine so far. My better half loves it too but frequently laments, “I wish you would obsess over me or things that actually matter like you obsess over that car.” Needless to say, her priorities need adjustment!

In summary; if it’s an additional car for you and geared towards what it’s meant to do vs. commuting 45 mins on the interstate everyday, I say get one! You won’t regret it!

Hope this helps.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

I echo the others. Overall for what it is I love it and think they nailed it. I have a number of cars including a gt3, 911 turbo s, g wagon and Yukon… Lately my shit eating grin/happiness factor has been highest in the Grenadier. It just checks a box for me in so many ways and many of the quirks/faults end up being part of what makes it great I think. So negating the dealer network stuff which is getting better every other week it seems, I give the car itself 10/10 - only you can decide if you’re close enough to a dealer to be ok though.

Massive caveats however*** I use mine to bop around the Hamptons and go upstate in New York, Connecticut, etc etc. I plan to ship it out west in the spring and do some trips/exploring out there. It sounds like this won’t be your primary vehicle. I do think if this is going to be a primary vehicle you may miss things other cars have/come standard with- think tech and comfort packages; there are no ventilated seats, Burmester sound systems, nor surround view cameras to be found in the Grenadier, yet I don’t care. I have yet to say to myself anything along the lines of “oh man this would really be great if only it had heated cup holders, autopilot, and massage seat!” All that kind of stuff would detract from the experience IMO. And, if I really wanted a “tech-forward,” massage capable, iPad with wheels, I’d just get a Tesla. Having owned pick-ups and Jeeps in the past, I feel like this is a different and better experience, for me. I do, however, only go on the interstate if I have to. If I need to drive into NYC, Boston, DC or something I’m taking the Yukon or something else that’s a better highway cruiser. So I think a huge part of my love/non-annoyance has to do with that I don’t need to use it as a primary vehicle and generally try to avoid long commutes/trips unless it’s necessary to get off-road somewhere.

Also some fair warning; the after market parts market is getting very robust and one modification tends to lead to another! I’ve really enjoyed modifying mine so far.

In summary; if it’s an additional car for you and geared towards what it’s meant to do vs. commuting 45 mins on the interstate everyday, I say get one! You won’t regret it!

Hope this helps.

“ I have a number of cars including a gt3, 911 turbo s, g wagon and Yukon…”…..you had me at “ I have a number of cars” then lost me at “Yukon”……I joke I joke I kid I kid….i had one years ago myself……..

 

[Toot]

“ I have a number of cars including a gt3, 911 turbo s, g wagon and Yukon…”…..you had me at “ I have a number of cars” then lost me at “Yukon”……I joke I joke I kid I kid….i had one years ago myself……..

Ha! Well the Yukon is my number 2, I sprung for the Denali ultimate in ‘23 when it came out and absolutely love it. Wifey has the g wagon, personally I hate that car and have been begging her to sell it for a while now- horrible optics. When she complains about people wanting to talk to her about it everywhere/getting approached, I explain the optics and my distain for them and she goes “but it’s so high up, I love it.” Oh well. Very well built and rock solid feeling though.