NA Trailer Brake Controller Install

[LeeroyJ]

I ran into same thing which is why started digging in to the technical details. Hate to say it but it likely is not actually doing anything.

I will post details on TRM to see if better signal there although I suspect the input will be same as that wire under seat. Most likely have to use an output from TRM

I can understand how pressing the gain switch and feeling the trailer brake does not prove that the brake controller is working when apply the brake pedal. I get that.

What I don't get is I can set the gain to very low levels, brake medium hard, then do the same thing again with the gain set at progressively higher levels, and I can feel the trailer taking progressively more of the braking load. That seems to me to mean that the controller is in fact sending a signal to the trailer under braking alone.

I wonder if what we are missing out on is the "bonus" features of the Redarc controller. It is supposed to be smarter than a regular controller using its built-in accelerometer to measure vehicle motion and adjusting its brake signal accordingly. Maybe all we are getting is regular dumb controls? I don't know, I'm just guessing out loud. Either way though, I agree this is something that we should get to the bottom of.

 

[anand]

I wonder if what we are missing out on is the "bonus" features of the Redarc controller. It is supposed to be smarter than a regular controller using its built-in accelerometer to measure vehicle motion and adjusting its brake signal accordingly. Maybe all we are getting is regular dumb controls? I don't know, I'm just guessing out loud. Either way though, I agree this is something that we should get to the bottom of.

If anything I'd say you're only getting the "smart" accelerometer controls and not the basic control

 

[LeeroyJ]

If anything I'd say you're only getting the "smart" accelerometer controls and not the basic control

I guess this could be easily tested by seeing if the trailer brakes engage with the brake pedal depressed while the vehicle is not moving. I'm about to head out of town so cant check that today. But my thought is that if the vehicle is not moving, then the accelerometer will not be triggered, so any brake signal must be coming from the Redarc reading the brake signal from the Grenadier. This would require another person to stand by the trailer brakes to see if they are engaging (maybe not easy to do with drum brakes?).

 

[anand]

I guess this could be easily tested by seeing if the trailer brakes engage with the brake pedal depressed while the vehicle is not moving. I'm about to head out of town so cant check that today. But my thought is that if the vehicle is not moving, then the accelerometer will not be triggered, so any brake signal must be coming from the Redarc reading the brake signal from the Grenadier. This would require another person to stand by the trailer brakes to see if they are engaging (maybe not easy to do with drum brakes?).

You could also just check for voltage on the brake control wire coming out of the 7 pin connector when stepping on the brakes

 

[Clark Kent]

I guess this could be easily tested by seeing if the trailer brakes engage with the brake pedal depressed while the vehicle is not moving. I'm about to head out of town so cant check that today. But my thought is that if the vehicle is not moving, then the accelerometer will not be triggered, so any brake signal must be coming from the Redarc reading the brake signal from the Grenadier. This would require another person to stand by the trailer brakes to see if they are engaging (maybe not easy to do with drum brakes?).

A few affirmative actions you could try:

1. Test for +12v directly at the brake unit connector on the axle with brakes applied.
2. The brake drum should become mildly magnetised when the trailer brakes are applied. If you can access the drum through the wheel test if it is magnetic.
3. Jack a trailer wheel while hooked up to your tow vehicle and see if the wheel locks when you apply the brakes.

 

[Clark Kent]

You can't use pin6 because that is also right turn signal. There technically is no dedicated brake light on the NA 7pin connector. Would have to be an AND with pin1

Yep, any ROW posts you read on here and anything in the Redarc kit instructions will need to be adapted for the NA vehicle wiring and 7 pin trailer specs.
If only there was an ISO standard for this stuff...

 

[pernsdorff]

There is however, dedicated brake light input into the TRM in the passenger rear of the vehicle

Which is the TRM?

 

[anand]

Which is the TRM?

I can't pop my cover off easily because of my drawer system, but it should be easy to trace the 7 pin connector's wiring from the grommet in the rearward portion of the wheel well to the TRM

 

[pernsdorff]

Which is the TRM?

Nevermind, found it

Got a reply from Elliott Bay today:

I heard back from INEOS' lead tech, here's what he told me:

"There is no signal at the trailer brake wire. I wo uld recommend getting the signal from the center high-mounted brake light until there is a factory solution. There is not an ETA from the engineers for this solution as of yet."

I can't believe they released vehicles with wiring for a trailer brake controller but didn't think they should include a signal to the brakes.....

Looks like I'll follow @Clark Kent 's suggestion....Thanks Clark

Better Solution Found

Use the wires under the rear seat as others have indicated for power, ground, trailer brakes.
There is a brake trigger/signal wire that feeds input to the TRM (trailer module). Blue/orange wire fourth in from left - see pic.
Test drive successful and RedArc properly finished it's learning after a few miles of driving around.
Hopefully these pictures help.

 

[chtucker]

Nevermind, found it

Better Solution Found

Use the wires under the rear seat as others have indicated for power, ground, trailer brakes.
There is a brake trigger/signal wire that feeds input to the TRM (trailer module). Blue/orange wire fourth in from left - see pic.
Test drive successful and RedArc properly finished it's learning after a few miles of driving around.
Hopefully these pictures help.

I assume you just tapped that wire with a scotch lock or positap?

 

[pernsdorff]

I assume you just tapped that wire with a scotch lock or positap?

Yes, many options and opinions there to tap in. I should have stated the I tapped in to that line. I carefully stripped a bit of the insulation and soldered and retaped.

Be sure to do your own volt meter confirmation of the line to make sure only gets 12v when brake applied.

 

[ScottnAZ]

Oh geez, I’ve got some reading to do to catch up on this thread. My apologies for being away.

Our trailer has been sitting for a bit, but we do have a trip planned in a couple of weeks, so I’ll do some testing beforehand.

Today, however, not towing, we now have a “Trailer System Error” on the displays. Haven’t had time to investigate, so that’s on the list too. I’ll report back.

 

[Driver8]

That blink pattern is the hint that it hasn't been able to learn detection of brake signal.

This is one of the pieces that clued me in that something was amiss. The redarc is supposed to learn its orientation so the accelerometer can determine how hard the tow vehicle is slowing down and then proportionally give the same braking effort to the trailer. It kept blinking green and blue to say that it was calibrating. It only takes about 20 brake applications to learn its position, even without a trailer attached. Mine did not calibrate until I used the manual override about 20 times and now is a steady blue. It did not know the tow vehicle was braking and was not calibrating. Only when the manual override was applied did it realize that braking was going through the controller and then calibrated. So @LeeroyJ if it has not calibrated by now and showing a steady blue light when trailer and a hooked up, then I suspect you have the same issue. When I press the manual override, I can feel the trailer brakes engaging, big difference when I just brake the tow vehicle.

@pernsdorff I see in a later post you tapped another wire for the signal and are now calibrated- that is promising!!

 

[Driver8]

Use the wires under the rear seat as others have indicated for power, ground, trailer brakes.

The vilot/orange wire that is apparently useless, did you just tape that up? If that is not the brake trigger wire, I wonder what its purpose is in life? Am supposed to be going to the dealer on Thursday because I thought that wire was malfunctioning due to a mechanical issue or a software issue related to the big issue we had here in NA when vehicles were first delivered. However, if the Elliot Bay dealer is saying there is nothing baked in already for this, then that wire is not the problem, and I can save myself a 4 hour drive. All the other wires line up and work as expected, so I too thought this wire would work for that purpose.

Thanks for tracking down the wire from the TRM, that may be the solution I have to take.

 

[anand]

The vilot/orange wire that is apparently useless, did you just tape that up? If that is not the brake trigger wire, I wonder what its purpose is in life? Am supposed to be going to the dealer on Thursday because I thought that wire was malfunctioning due to a mechanical issue or a software issue related to the big issue we had here in NA when vehicles were first delivered. However, if the Elliot Bay dealer is saying there is nothing baked in already for this, then that wire is not the problem, and I can save myself a 4 hour drive. All the other wires line up and work as expected, so I too thought this wire would work for that purpose.

Thanks for tracking down the wire from the TRM, that may be the solution I have to take.

That wire is supposed to be the brake trigger based on some documents... However, appears to not be working, or not to be wired correctly on the North American vehicles. You don't need to tape it up as it already is capped.

The reason for the initial vehicles delivered stateside to not have hitches (and the reflash/update) was not to rectify anything trailer brake related. It was trailer lights (specifically the brake/turn, because the RoW uses separate outputs in the trailer harness for brake and turn signals, not combined like we do).

My recommendation for North American folks who are wiring in trailer brake controllers is to do like @pernsdorff suggested, grab power, ground, and trailer brake output under the rear seat, and grab the brake trigger from the TRM. Grabbing the brake trigger from the TRM and running it forward to the rear seat is a quick and easy job

 

[MTNDOG]

That wire is supposed to be the brake trigger based on some documents... However, appears to not be working, or not to be wired correctly on the North American vehicles. You don't need to tape it up as it already is capped.

The reason for the initial vehicles delivered stateside to not have hitches (and the reflash/update) was not to rectify anything trailer brake related. It was trailer lights (specifically the brake/turn, because the RoW uses separate outputs in the trailer harness for brake and turn signals, not combined like we do).

My recommendation for North American folks who are wiring in trailer brake controllers is to do like @pernsdorff suggested, grab power, ground, and trailer brake output under the rear seat, and grab the brake trigger from the TRM. Grabbing the brake trigger from the TRM and running it forward to the rear seat is a quick and easy job

I think we all need to contact our dealers. The more voices heard that the trailer wiring needs to be addressed will hopefully get some response from Ineos.

 

[pernsdorff]

The vilot/orange wire that is apparently useless, did you just tape that up? If that is not the brake trigger wire, I wonder what its purpose is in life? Am supposed to be going to the dealer on Thursday because I thought that wire was malfunctioning due to a mechanical issue or a software issue related to the big issue we had here in NA when vehicles were first delivered. However, if the Elliot Bay dealer is saying there is nothing baked in already for this, then that wire is not the problem, and I can save myself a 4 hour drive. All the other wires line up and work as expected, so I too thought this wire would work for that purpose.

Thanks for tracking down the wire from the TRM, that may be the solution I have to take.

If you exposed this wire (like we all did) just tape and protect from short.
That wire is communicating something, we just don't yet know what it is. The extra run to TRM is pretty easy.

There is a black cap to slide off the TRM connector. There are small clips and the cap slides off out of the way.

On mine I had to unclip a useless zip tie that was probably there before the TRM was installed at port

I am making the 4hr drive across the state in the morning but for work, not dealer

 

[pernsdorff]

I think we all need to contact our dealers. The more voices heard that the trailer wiring needs to be addressed will hopefully get some response from Ineos.

It seems in another thread I noticed comments that said RedArc was working with New Zealand or Australia dealers on brake controller, maybe something even more official come out of that, but NA is different.

 

[pernsdorff]

This is one of the pieces that clued me in that something was amiss. The redarc is supposed to learn its orientation so the accelerometer can determine how hard the tow vehicle is slowing down and then proportionally give the same braking effort to the trailer. It kept blinking green and blue to say that it was calibrating. It only takes about 20 brake applications to learn its position, even without a trailer attached. Mine did not calibrate until I used the manual override about 20 times and now is a steady blue. It did not know the tow vehicle was braking and was not calibrating. Only when the manual override was applied did it realize that braking was going through the controller and then calibrated. So @LeeroyJ if it has not calibrated by now and showing a steady blue light when trailer and a hooked up, then I suspect you have the same issue. When I press the manual override, I can feel the trailer brakes engaging, big difference when I just brake the tow vehicle.

@pernsdorff I see in a later post you tapped another wire for the signal and are now calibrated- that is promising!!

Yes, certainly suggest don't rely on that manual braking for calibration. Once get a proper brake signal I suggest force RedArc to recalibrate - from a search it looks like if you just disconnect power from the controller it will reset/require calibration

 

[anand]

On mine I had to unclip a useless zip tie that was probably there before the TRM was installed at port

FWIW, the TRM was installed at the factory, not the port