The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
FWIW, the TRM was installed at the factory, not the port
That would make sense it's just that it had one of those body clips to hold the connector wire bundle to the body if the module wasn't there yet. Given the hold for TRM module update in NA figured maybe it happened after factory.
 

anand

Photo Contest Winner
Forum Moderator
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:34 PM
Joined
Mar 12, 2023
Messages
3,131
Reaction score
5,086
Location
Maryland
That would make sense it's just that it had one of those body clips to hold the connector wire bundle to the body if the module wasn't there yet. Given the hold for TRM module update in NA figured maybe it happened after factory.
It was just a software update (well, the trucks that needed the software update had the hitch unbolted at the port as well), but nothing involving the TRM
 

Driver8

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
3:34 PM
Joined
Nov 23, 2022
Messages
29
Reaction score
42
Location
Michigan
Yes, certainly suggest don't rely on that manual braking for calibration. Once get a proper brake signal I suggest force RedArc to recalibrate - from a search it looks like if you just disconnect power from the controller it will reset/require calibration
Agreed. I used the manual braking to actually engage the trailer brakes, and in doing so, it started calibrating. Initially I thought my mounting of the controller was not adequately stable and therefore could not calibrate. I used beefier zip ties and thought that was good enough, but then still wasn’t calibrating, so I thought I would have to remount again. However, when I used the manual override and it calibrated, I ruled out the mounting as an issue and focused on the lack of a trigger.

I tried readings from the 7 pin at the rear of the vehicle using info I found on an F-150 site (below). Everything worked as expected (manual override increased in voltage as I increased gain) except no signal when brakes were pressed. I then moved upstream in front of the brake controller and
I used a multimeter and placed the red lead on the violet/orange wire and the black lead on the ground right next to the trailer wires under the rear right seat, engine on, brake pedal pressed and no voltage. I had the brakes depressed for more than 3 seconds (the Red Arc manual says if tow vehicle is stopped and brakes applied for more than 3 seconds, the trailer brakes will then engage- since it is a proportional EBC, this seemed to be the only way to test it since I couldn’t be in motion).


From F-150 site below:
I could put the black (ground) probe from my multi-meter on the ground pin on the 7-way, then put the positive probe on the pin that is for the trailer brakes.

set your multi-meter to DC. You should see no voltage when the controller isn't being manually activated, except for a periodic blip on the fancier models which is used to verify when the trailer is connected [I had this blip on the Gren]. If you have the voltage turn all the way up, then you should see 12+ volts at the pin when the manual override paddle is fully engaged [I had this on the Gren as well, more gain, more voltage]. If you test it by pressing the brake pedal, you'll see a much lower voltage. Usually 1.5-4 volts, since proportional units only send voltage in proportion to deceleration. [No voltage at all, so I went upstream from the 7 pin to troubleshoot]



Picture1_3.jpg
 

GrenADV

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:34 PM
Joined
Dec 24, 2021
Messages
196
Reaction score
417
Location
West Virginia
Next to stripping and soldering the wire tap as mentioned above, what is the next best method/means for tapping into the wire for the brake signal? I don't possess a soldering iron or the expertise on how to do this.

Also, what type of wire (gauge/size) would you run for the brake signal? Assuming I should just be able to pick-up some of this wiring at a Lowe's? I need the auto electrical for dummies edition here :cool:
 

anand

Photo Contest Winner
Forum Moderator
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
3:34 PM
Joined
Mar 12, 2023
Messages
3,131
Reaction score
5,086
Location
Maryland
Next to stripping and soldering the wire tap as mentioned above, what is the next best method/means for tapping into the wire for the brake signal? I don't possess a soldering iron or the expertise on how to do this.

Also, what type of wire (gauge/size) would you run for the brake signal? Assuming I should just be able to pick-up some of this wiring at a Lowe's? I need the auto electrical for dummies edition here :cool:
Since it isn't met with moisture/exterior use, even using a <gasp> T tap (vampire clamp, etc) right over the wire should be fine; just make sure it is the appropriate size.

The "load" the wire carries is simply signifying activation of the brake lights, so depending on the distance 18AWG should be plenty. If you are worried, or it is easier to find, 16AWG is more than enough
 

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
Next to stripping and soldering the wire tap as mentioned above, what is the next best method/means for tapping into the wire for the brake signal? I don't possess a soldering iron or the expertise on how to do this.

Also, what type of wire (gauge/size) would you run for the brake signal? Assuming I should just be able to pick-up some of this wiring at a Lowe's? I need the auto electrical for dummies edition here :cool:
Next to stripping and soldering the wire tap as mentioned above, what is the next best method/means for tapping into the wire for the brake signal? I don't possess a soldering iron or the expertise on how to do this.

Also, what type of wire (gauge/size) would you run for the brake signal? Assuming I should just be able to pick-up some of this wiring at a Lowe's? I need the auto electrical for dummies edition here :cool:
Something like Posi-Tap would work fine - get from your local auto parts. Probably best to use same gauge wire as the brake signal wire from the controller.
 

Driver8

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
3:34 PM
Joined
Nov 23, 2022
Messages
29
Reaction score
42
Location
Michigan
I spoke with my dealer, who contacted the technical rep for Ineos. They are aware of the issue and think they will have a permanent fix late October/early November. He didn’t have much details, but it sounds like they will address the issue in the factory installed wiring for the towing package. The violet/orange wire should be sending a signal but does not always. He didn’t say if this affects everyone or just some. In the meantime, tapping into the wire @pernsdorff lined out sounds like the best alternative for now.
 

rur42

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Apr 23, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
36
Location
Eugene, OR, USA
Nevermind, found it 😁

Better Solution Found

Use the wires under the rear seat as others have indicated for power, ground, trailer brakes.
There is a brake trigger/signal wire that feeds input to the TRM (trailer module). Blue/orange wire fourth in from left - see pic.
Test drive successful and RedArc properly finished it's learning after a few miles of driving around.
Hopefully these pictures help.

Did you install a diode when you tapped into the TRM? It looks like the Redarc controller provides power to its trigger wire when you manually activate the trailer brakes, which means it would provide power to the TRM. I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but you would be indicating to the TRM that the vehicle is braking when it is not. Redarc provides a diode to stop feedback into the vehicle's brake light circuits, but it would have to be wired differently to stop feeding into the TRM. Anyway, curious to hear if you have a diode, or whether manual activation of the trailer brakes is not a problem for the TRM. (Though not sure how you would know.)
 

DezRoamer

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:34 PM
Joined
Feb 3, 2024
Messages
40
Reaction score
103
Location
Peyton, CO, USA
Fused under backseat (drivers side) as FI13, so I didn’t add any additional fusing.
View attachment 7854647

I know what you mean about the kiddos….. we had a wakeboard/surf boat for a number of years during their childhood. Older daughter went off to college, boat stopped getting used on a regular basis so we sold it. Fast forward a little and youngest went off to college a few years ago, so we didn’t waste any time and picked up the airstream.

We most definitely have 10-15 years of working ahead of us still, but some personal things helped us realize life is short, and it’s okay to take time and do some traveling. There is plenty to do and see within 2-8 hours of home (including Durango 😉), so a 4-day weekend every month, and an 8-10 day trip twice a year has been our cadence (it certainly helps we’re self-employed though).

Don’t over think it, take that airstream out, leave the kids home, be okay with the fact they’ll throw a party or two; enjoy life, the stress and work will always be there when you get back. Happy towing back at ya, my friend!
I'm about to add a brake controller as many of us have, Was the fuse installed or will it need to be purchased and installed after the control wiring is completed?
This was a great resource for fitting a controller. Thanks for giving the details and all who participated in the thread.
 

e_k_powell

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:34 PM
Joined
Jul 23, 2024
Messages
35
Reaction score
48
Location
Houston, Texas, USA
Easy solution for anyone that doesn't want to hardwire in a trailer brake controller. I used this bluetooth wireless controller the covid summers in 2020 and 2021 hauling a 28 ft travel trailer behind a Nissan Armada. It worked like a charm. Easy setup and nice phone app to adjust as needed. Still have it in case I need control of trailer with electric brakes. It's portable and can be used in different vehicles and can save profiles for different setups. Just a suggestion.
 

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
Did you install a diode when you tapped into the TRM? It looks like the Redarc controller provides power to its trigger wire when you manually activate the trailer brakes, which means it would provide power to the TRM. I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but you would be indicating to the TRM that the vehicle is braking when it is not. Redarc provides a diode to stop feedback into the vehicle's brake light circuits, but it would have to be wired differently to stop feeding into the TRM. Anyway, curious to hear if you have a diode, or whether manual activation of the trailer brakes is not a problem for the TRM. (Though not sure how you would know.)
I did not install a diode. RedArc wants to send 12v on manual brake - I figured no harm since these trigger inputs are how the TRM enables trailer lighting. It shouldn't care who sent the 12v trigger
 

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
I'm about to add a brake controller as many of us have, Was the fuse installed or will it need to be purchased and installed after the control wiring is completed?
This was a great resource for fitting a controller. Thanks for giving the details and all who participated in the thread.
If you have factory installed hitch option, all fuses should already be installed.
 

rur42

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Apr 23, 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
36
Location
Eugene, OR, USA
I did not install a diode. RedArc wants to send 12v on manual brake - I figured no harm since these trigger inputs are how the TRM enables trailer lighting. It shouldn't care who sent the 12v trigger
I was thinking the same thing after I posted, so it’s probable that the trailer brakes are being lit when you manually activate the brakes. Which is how the Redarc is designed to operate. Anway, sounds good. I’ll take this approach as well. Thanks for locating that wire :)
 

Clark Kent

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:34 AM
Joined
Jul 26, 2022
Messages
756
Reaction score
1,848
Location
Toowoomba QLD, Australia
I did not install a diode. RedArc wants to send 12v on manual brake - I figured no harm since these trigger inputs are how the TRM enables trailer lighting. It shouldn't care who sent the 12v trigger
I would be careful here. Redarc don't advise installing a diode just to sell diodes. Bendix and others who make EBCs also advise and/or supply a blocking diode in their kits.

It may be that the TRM has feedback protection built in and can block a 12v signal coming back from the trailer socket but does anyone actually know this? But, that only works if you have tapped the brake light wire after the TRM i.e. between the TRM and the trailer socket. If you have tapped the brake light wire before the TRM then you have the TRM on one side and the vehicle ECU/BCM on the other with an unexpected 12v signal being injected into the circuit during manual braking.
The diode is to protect the vehicle. For the cost of a blocking diode I am not sure I would be ignoring Redarc's advice.

Screenshot_20240820-075953.png
 

DezRoamer

Grenadier Owner
Local time
1:34 PM
Joined
Feb 3, 2024
Messages
40
Reaction score
103
Location
Peyton, CO, USA
If you have factory installed hitch option, all fuses should already be installed.
Factory installed hitch but I haven't verified the fuse being installed.
Thanks for your reply
6,000 miles and I'm enjoying the Gren very much. A few small niggles but overall very happy with the truck.
 

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
I would be careful here. Redarc don't advise installing a diode just to sell diodes. Bendix and others who make EBCs also advise and/or supply a blocking diode in their kits.

It may be that the TRM has feedback protection built in and can block a 12v signal coming back from the trailer socket but does anyone actually know this? But, that only works if you have tapped the brake light wire after the TRM i.e. between the TRM and the trailer socket. If you have tapped the brake light wire before the TRM then you have the TRM on one side and the vehicle ECU/BCM on the other with an unexpected 12v signal being injected into the circuit during manual braking.
The diode is to protect the vehicle. For the cost of a blocking diode I am not sure I would be ignoring Redarc's advice.

View attachment 7867229
Agree this is a valid use of the diode as long as placed on the correct side of the tap.
Btw, there technically is no brake light after the TRM in the trailer socket - at least in NAR.
 

pernsdorff

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
12:34 PM
Joined
Jul 28, 2024
Messages
26
Reaction score
13
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
I would be careful here. Redarc don't advise installing a diode just to sell diodes. Bendix and others who make EBCs also advise and/or supply a blocking diode in their kits.

It may be that the TRM has feedback protection built in and can block a 12v signal coming back from the trailer socket but does anyone actually know this? But, that only works if you have tapped the brake light wire after the TRM i.e. between the TRM and the trailer socket. If you have tapped the brake light wire before the TRM then you have the TRM on one side and the vehicle ECU/BCM on the other with an unexpected 12v signal being injected into the circuit during manual braking.
The diode is to protect the vehicle. For the cost of a blocking diode I am not sure I would be ignoring Redarc's advice.

View attachment 7867229
Of course this means you have to break the wire fully and not just tap in to it.
 
Back
Top Bottom