NA Trailer Brake Controller Install

[Idriss]

I installed the unit as per your instructions and it is not working. RED and White on the Redarc is supposed to give 12V, no voltage. NA Ineos with Trailer Package. Called Redarc and they said there is something wrong with the Ineos wiring...

 

[ScottnAZ]

Can you give an update on your towing experience pulling the Airstream.
It;s about the same size and weight of a trailer I'm contemplating buying.
If things work out I may even live in the set up for a couple years traveling around the US.

I'm looking at buying a Oliver Legacy II
Dry weight 4,900lbs
Tongue weight 490 Lbs
GVWR 7,000 lbs

I'm nervous about pulling a trailer that weighs so close to max tow rating.
Yes, I have many years of experience towing all kinds of trailers and RV's.


Thanks for the help.

Sure thing. Anything specific? I have full confidence in the Grenadier towing our Airstream.

We’re actually headed out on another trip with the AS tomorrow, but it’ll be a flat-land trip from PHX to southern CA, so not a lot of mountain passes (although we will hit a brief period of 8% grade).

While we won’t get in to the Rockies until later this summer, we have towed up and over 7000+’ (6.8% grade) elevations through Flagstaff when we traveled to lake Powell earlier this year. I had to exercise some patience, which is good any way, because you’re not going to run 70+mph up the 6% or greater grades towing something this heavy. There’s nothing wrong with sitting in the right lane going 50-55 up a big hill……. Safely getting there is priority #1, obviously.

I’ve still been working on dialing in the weight distribution. Not so much the Pro Pride because it’s simply a matter of taking some measurements to get the weight properly distributed, but I seem to be moving things around in the trailer each trip (folding chairs, grille, etc), and have tried to be more conscience about placing them over the axles. Each trip seems to be a bit different. Like last month we had a heavy load of perishables, so the Grenadier was loaded-up. Whereas, I just got done packing the G for tomorrows trip and felt like I was forgetting stuff because there will be very little in the Gren.

I’d be lying if I said the Grenadier were rock solid towing something so close to the max weight. I have had a couple moments, nothing crazy or scary, just some “this feels strange” moments. A couple times I’ve had to brake hard in traffic, and the trailer seems to push the Grenadier to the left. Again, nothing crazy, just a little bit different than with a heavier tow vehicle. Make sense? At this point, I think I have the brake controller dialed just about all the way up for max braking assistance.

Like many others have said, the Grenadier isn’t a vehicle you can simply sit there and let your mind wander while driving, you’ve got to drive it, and pay attention. That seems even more prevalent when towing a heavy trailer. Just a little bit different, a little more concentration, a little more driver fatigue, frankly.

Tire pressure is a whole other thing I haven’t had to monkey around with in previous tow vehicles. Unloaded, the pressure with the Grenadier seems best, for me, at 36 front/38 rear. Now, tomorrow morning, when cold pressure, I’ll inflate to 41 front/45 rear (and hit the tire pressure reset button). Then, 30 minutes in to the drive we’ll start getting the high-pressure light, even though we’ll still be within the pressure limits on the door sticker. Once un-hitched at the rv park, the next morning I’ll lower the tire pressures back down to the 36/38 for regular driving around town. And do the whole song and dance over again when it’s time to head home at the end of the trip. This was a big part of my motivation for adding the built-in air compressor; besides airing down for off-roading, obviously.

I just don’t remember worrying so much about weight distribution, tire pressure, and strategic packing with the Rivian R1T or new defender 110; as I have been with the Grenadier.

Anyway, I hope there’s some helpful info in there…..and if not, then at least my thumbs got an evening workout .

Let us know how things turn out for you, and safe towing.

 

[Voader - Oudersopzwier]

View: https://youtu.be/II3MTMYpfzA?si=igP9e4O3vd80CQMn

View: https://youtu.be/y6SegtYgXs4?si=dibACQDs1lb3QL1w

I suppose this is an America thing. Never heard off or seen a trailer with electric brakes in Europe…. All our trailers are equipped with mechanical brakes. Heavy trailers >3.5 ton have pneumatic brakes.

 

[DezRoamer]

Sure thing. Anything specific? I have full confidence in the Grenadier towing our Airstream.

We’re actually headed out on another trip with the AS tomorrow, but it’ll be a flat-land trip from PHX to southern CA, so not a lot of mountain passes (although we will hit a brief period of 8% grade).

While we won’t get in to the Rockies until later this summer, we have towed up and over 7000+’ (6.8% grade) elevations through Flagstaff when we traveled to lake Powell earlier this year. I had to exercise some patience, which is good any way, because you’re not going to run 70+mph up the 6% or greater grades towing something this heavy. There’s nothing wrong with sitting in the right lane going 50-55 up a big hill……. Safely getting there is priority #1, obviously.

I’ve still been working on dialing in the weight distribution. Not so much the Pro Pride because it’s simply a matter of taking some measurements to get the weight properly distributed, but I seem to be moving things around in the trailer each trip (folding chairs, grille, etc), and have tried to be more conscience about placing them over the axles. Each trip seems to be a bit different. Like last month we had a heavy load of perishables, so the Grenadier was loaded-up. Whereas, I just got done packing the G for tomorrows trip and felt like I was forgetting stuff because there will be very little in the Gren.

I’d be lying if I said the Grenadier were rock solid towing something so close to the max weight. I have had a couple moments, nothing crazy or scary, just some “this feels strange” moments. A couple times I’ve had to brake hard in traffic, and the trailer seems to push the Grenadier to the left. Again, nothing crazy, just a little bit different than with a heavier tow vehicle. Make sense? At this point, I think I have the brake controller dialed just about all the way up for max braking assistance.

Like many others have said, the Grenadier isn’t a vehicle you can simply sit there and let your mind wander while driving, you’ve got to drive it, and pay attention. That seems even more prevalent when towing a heavy trailer. Just a little bit different, a little more concentration, a little more driver fatigue, frankly.

Tire pressure is a whole other thing I haven’t had to monkey around with in previous tow vehicles. Unloaded, the pressure with the Grenadier seems best, for me, at 36 front/38 rear. Now, tomorrow morning, when cold pressure, I’ll inflate to 41 front/45 rear (and hit the tire pressure reset button). Then, 30 minutes in to the drive we’ll start getting the high-pressure light, even though we’ll still be within the pressure limits on the door sticker. Once un-hitched at the rv park, the next morning I’ll lower the tire pressures back down to the 36/38 for regular driving around town. And do the whole song and dance over again when it’s time to head home at the end of the trip. This was a big part of my motivation for adding the built-in air compressor; besides airing down for off-roading, obviously.

I just don’t remember worrying so much about weight distribution, tire pressure, and strategic packing with the Rivian R1T or new defender 110; as I have been with the Grenadier.

Anyway, I hope there’s some helpful info in there…..and if not, then at least my thumbs got an evening workout .

Let us know how things turn out for you, and safe towing.

You summed it up pretty well and nothing you stated surprises me. Anytime a person tows at or close to max tow rating things can feel a bit overtaxed.
As I've said I have lots of years of heavy towing experience and the trailer I'm looking at is rated at 7,000 GVW.
I've done the whole RV way of travel for years and a couple years ago went back to how I did it in my 20's.. It's a bit less comfortable but it can be simpler in many ways and not nearly as costly. Just hard to live in a tent for an extended period of time.
Thanks for the comprehensive information.

 

[T5Ineos]

To add a little to the discussion. I wired in a RedArc Tow Pro Elite trailer brake controller other night to the 4 wires under the seat next to the auxiliary battery and it works great. I have not installed the switch yet as I am still trying to determine the final location. From what I have read, every vehicles in the US has the 4 wires under the seat, with or without the tow package.

That said, you should be able to put the two hitch on any vehicle without the tow package and tow a trailer WITHOUT BRAKES by simply tapping into the light circuits (lights, brakes and turn signals). This has been done for MANY years without any issues by many people, but you absolutely need the other inputs from a 7 pin to be able to use a trailer with brakes and the typical 7 pin ALSO includes an auxiliary power input to charge the trailer break-away battery.

My guess is that all of the wiring for the 7 pin is likely in the rear panel and all you need is the wire loom and plug to install the 7 pin plug, but apparently INEOS is not offering that as a kit. My guess is you could likely track it down via the parts diagram and just order the parts and install.

It is possible that you may miss some trailer sway controls, etc, but I honestly doubt it.

I would LOVE it if you had any photos you could post. I was looking at some boat trailers this weekend with surge breaks which would mean you could skip the need for a 7pin, within reasonable weight, with just basic blinkers and breaklights i think…

 

[T5Ineos]

Just finished installing and testing a trailer brake controller on our NA Grenadier.

Went with the Redarc EBRH-ACCV3-NA Tow-Pro Elite Electric Brake Controller; as suggested by Mark @ Redarc. This is the same unit we had on our Defender.

I also needed to order a longer remote wire to move the remote head to the front dash area for mounting. The extension hasn’t arrived yet, so for now the remote is strung to sit between the drivers seat and the center console: RHWK-004 13ft Tow-Pro Elite Remote Head Wiring Kit.

On to the wiring…..

1. Under the back seat, on the passenger side, you will find 4 random wires for the brake controller.

View attachment 7848403

Yellow/Red wire = 12v Constant - (REDARC Black Wire)

Black wire = Ground - (REDARC White Wire)

Grey Wire 12AWG = Control (REDARC Blue Wire)

Violet/Orange 14AWG Wire = Signal (REDARC Red Wire)

I simply zip tied the head unit to the bracket under the seat. (Although, now I realize I’ll have to move it when I install the air compressor.

View attachment 7848404

Then we went out for a test cruise around town, and the freeway. The Airsteam is 23’ and right about 6000 lbs, and we have a Pro Pride 3 weight distribution hitch. Everything seems to be working well. My initial impression is the Grenadier feels more planted than our 2020 Defender did, but it was simple flat towing around town. I am looking forward to our 1st official trip with this setup, and see how it does climbing some mountains/hills.

View attachment 7848405

Question for you: did the red arc activate your braking system? I want to pull a trailer and only need brake lights and blinkers and was trying to figure out if i could just connect a universal 4 pin to these wires? The trailer im looking at has surge brakes on it. Only asking because the redarc is cool but pretty pricey compared to a universal 4 pin if its giving me functions i dont personally need.

 

[ScottnAZ]

Question for you: did the red arc activate your braking system? I want to pull a trailer and only need brake lights and blinkers and was trying to figure out if i could just connect a universal 4 pin to these wires? The trailer im looking at has surge brakes on it. Only asking because the redarc is cool but pretty pricey compared to a universal 4 pin if its giving me functions i dont personally need.

Oh boy, probably above my pay grade….

Have you tried connecting any sort of trailer plug to the grenadier?

I believe, and I could be totally off base here, but I would think you can simply use a 7-pin to 4 adapter and have access to the running/brake/blinker lights without having to install a brake controller. Surge brakes have nothing to do with the Redarc because it’s essentially a manual brake system vs. electronic.

Cliff’s Notes: I don’t think you need to install a brake controller if you are pulling a trailer with surge brakes.

 

[T5Ineos]

Oh boy, probably above my pay grade….

Have you tried connecting any sort of trailer plug to the grenadier?

I believe, and I could be totally off base here, but I would think you can simply use a 7-pin to 4 adapter and have access to the running/brake/blinker lights without having to install a brake controller. Surge brakes have nothing to do with the Redarc because it’s essentially a manual brake system vs. electronic.

Cliff’s Notes: I don’t think you need to install a brake controller if you are pulling a trailer with surge brakes.

I agree which is why i was going surge brakes. Long story but my pre order grenadier with the tow package didnt work out so i wound up having to take what i could get so im just trying to get blinker/brake light operational. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[Hill Country TX]

I agree which is why i was going surge brakes. Long story but my pre order grenadier with the tow package didnt work out so i wound up having to take what i could get so im just trying to get blinker/brake light operational. Appreciate the feedback.

You could buy this inexpensive tester. I keep one in my toolbox for my F250 that I use to tow cattle and tractors. It helps confirm operation and diagnose any problems with the truck's wiring system separate from a trailer.

7 Way Trailer Plug Tester

And I agree with @ScottnAZ and his summary. The Redarc, and any brake controller, is meant to actuate electric trailer brakes. Surge brakes, which are ideal for boats because you don't want your electric brakes being submerged when launching/loading, are mechanical and should not be impacted by the presence/lack of a brake controller.

 

[Josh]

I am still waiting on the longer cable to arrive, so I have not mounted it yet. I’ll call it a game-time decision. (but likely lower left dash if accessible from driver position)

Thank you for the excellent write up. It assisted me in installing my Tekonsha brake controller.

 

[ScottnAZ]

At 282 hp the grenadier will suck traveling uphill above 4000 or 5000 feet at 7-8% grade towing 6000 pounds… But it’ll still do the job and get you there maxed out at perhaps 50 or 55 miles an hour uphill I’d imagine.

Spot on. Last week, we towed The Stream up to northern Arizona; 7% grade at a couple of stretches, above 4000 ft elevation…… maxed at 50 mph.

Made it up to the cooler weather though

 

[NomadJS]

It's wired to accommodate for trailer brakes for sure if you get the tow package, but you will need some sort of brake controller to activate and control the brakes and to adjust them. An OEM trailer brake controller would have been nice, but at least we got the pre-wires for it.

Just finished installing and testing a trailer brake controller on our NA Grenadier.

Went with the Redarc EBRH-ACCV3-NA Tow-Pro Elite Electric Brake Controller; as suggested by Mark @ Redarc. This is the same unit we had on our Defender.

I also needed to order a longer remote wire to move the remote head to the front dash area for mounting. The extension hasn’t arrived yet, so for now the remote is strung to sit between the drivers seat and the center console: RHWK-004 13ft Tow-Pro Elite Remote Head Wiring Kit.

On to the wiring…..

1. Under the back seat, on the passenger side, you will find 4 random wires for the brake controller.

View attachment 7848403

Yellow/Red wire = 12v Constant - (REDARC Black Wire)

Black wire = Ground - (REDARC White Wire)

Grey Wire 12AWG = Control (REDARC Blue Wire)

Violet/Orange 14AWG Wire = Signal (REDARC Red Wire)

I simply zip tied the head unit to the bracket under the seat. (Although, now I realize I’ll have to move it when I install the air compressor.

View attachment 7848404

Then we went out for a test cruise around town, and the freeway. The Airsteam is 23’ and right about 6000 lbs, and we have a Pro Pride 3 weight distribution hitch. Everything seems to be working well. My initial impression is the Grenadier feels more planted than our 2020 Defender did, but it was simple flat towing around town. I am looking forward to our 1st official trip with this setup, and see how it does climbing some mountains/hills.

View attachment 7848405

Noticed in the manual that the RedArc Tow-Pro elite showed the Black wire (which would connect to the red wire already pre-wired) from the Red Arc going to a 25A fuse or 30A Circuit breaker....do you know if the pre-wiring already handles the Fuse or Circuit breaker request? thanks for any help.

 

[ScottnAZ]

Fused under backseat (drivers side) as FI13, so I didn’t add any additional fusing.

 

[pernsdorff]

Just finished installing and testing a trailer brake controller on our NA Grenadier.

Went with the Redarc EBRH-ACCV3-NA Tow-Pro Elite Electric Brake Controller; as suggested by Mark @ Redarc. This is the same unit we had on our Defender.

I also needed to order a longer remote wire to move the remote head to the front dash area for mounting. The extension hasn’t arrived yet, so for now the remote is strung to sit between the drivers seat and the center console: RHWK-004 13ft Tow-Pro Elite Remote Head Wiring Kit.

On to the wiring…..

1. Under the back seat, on the passenger side, you will find 4 random wires for the brake controller.

View attachment 7848403

Yellow/Red wire = 12v Constant - (REDARC Black Wire)

Black wire = Ground - (REDARC White Wire)

Grey Wire 12AWG = Control (REDARC Blue Wire)

Violet/Orange 14AWG Wire = Signal (REDARC Red Wire)

I simply zip tied the head unit to the bracket under the seat. (Although, now I realize I’ll have to move it when I install the air compressor.

View attachment 7848404

Then we went out for a test cruise around town, and the freeway. The Airsteam is 23’ and right about 6000 lbs, and we have a Pro Pride 3 weight distribution hitch. Everything seems to be working well. My initial impression is the Grenadier feels more planted than our 2020 Defender did, but it was simple flat towing around town. I am looking forward to our 1st official trip with this setup, and see how it does climbing some mountains/hills.

Hi Scott, thanks for the post of where these wires are.

The trigger though does not work to properly trigger brakes. I couldn't tell if someone else already asked this question.
The RedArc expects 0volts if not braking and 12v when brake applied.

When I measure this, I see something like 0.22xx volts and when apply brakes it changes to a very small fraction of voltage. 0.223xx (estimate numbers)

When push the remote brake controller it does work to brake -- but the device will not apply any braking when apply brakes because it doesn't know.

Did you find an alternative to this? This seems like a software issue with Ineos.

Thanks

 

[anand]

Did you find an alternative to this? This seems like a software issue with Ineos.

Contact your dealer and notify them of this, they may be able to find a solution...

If not, I believe you can access the required signal at the TRM module in the passenger rear of the cargo area

 

[Driver8]

Hi Scott, thanks for the post of where these wires are.

The trigger though does not work to properly trigger brakes. I couldn't tell if someone else already asked this question.
The RedArc expects 0volts if not braking and 12v when brake applied.

When I measure this, I see something like 0.22xx volts and when apply brakes it changes to a very small fraction of voltage. 0.223xx (estimate numbers)

When push the remote brake controller it does work to brake -- but the device will not apply any braking when apply brakes because it doesn't know.

Did you find an alternative to this? This seems like a software issue with Ineos.

Thanks

I have the same issue. Manual override works as expected, but brake pedal does not. From what I can tell, the violet/orange wire that is the trailer brake controller output is not sending a signal to the brake controller. I have tested the wire and am not getting any voltage when the brake pedal is engaged. The problem appears to be with the tow vehicle, and not the brake controller. I am hoping to get to the dealer this week or next. Will post what I learn.

 

[pernsdorff]

I have the same issue. Manual override works as expected, but brake pedal does not. From what I can tell, the violet/orange wire that is the trailer brake controller output is not sending a signal to the brake controller. I have tested the wire and am not getting any voltage when the brake pedal is engaged. The problem appears to be with the tow vehicle, and not the brake controller. I am hoping to get to the dealer this week or next. Will post what I learn.

Yes, it is something with the trigger signal. The reading looks more like a digital signal - it does change with brake but it is a fraction of a voltage change. Look forward to hearing what you learn. Glad it wasn't just me seeing this. I have a question out as well.

 

[chtucker]

Yes, it is something with the trigger signal. The reading looks more like a digital signal - it does change with brake but it is a fraction of a voltage change. Look forward to hearing what you learn. Glad it wasn't just me seeing this. I have a question out as well.

Inputs to a brake controller are 12VDC positive and negative, brake actuation from the vehicle with 12volts positive. There isn’t a variable voltage FROM the vehicle, the brake controller is what OUTPUTS a variable voltage based on deacceleration forces. Brake controllers have 2 inputs, 1 output and 1 ground.

As I understand what you are saying you are getting +12volt constant, ground and you are not getting the brake actuation positive, therefore you brake controller is not outputting a variable voltage to the trailer brakes?

Just want clarity so I can go test

 

[pernsdorff]

Inputs to a brake controller are 12VDC positive and negative, brake actuation from the vehicle with 12volts positive. There isn’t a variable voltage FROM the vehicle, the brake controller is what OUTPUTS a variable voltage based on deacceleration forces. Brake controllers have 2 inputs, 1 output and 1 ground.

As I understand what you are saying you are getting +12volt constant, ground and you are not getting the brake actuation positive, therefore you brake controller is not outputting a variable voltage to the trailer brakes?

Just want clarity so I can go test

The violet/orange wire is expected to be 0volts when no brake applied and 12volts when brake applied - this does not work as expected from the vehicle. This is how the brake controller knows that deceleration is related to brake applied.
When I tested I was getting 0.22v and even when brake applied it might have changed to 0.23

Yes, the brake controller outputs a variable brake voltage based on amount of deceleration or settings of controller. Since the controller is not getting the expected trigger it won't apply braking voltage.

 

[chtucker]

The violet/orange wire is expected to be 0volts when no brake applied and 12volts when brake applied - this does not work as expected from the vehicle. This is how the brake controller knows that deceleration is related to brake applied.
When I tested I was getting 0.22v and even when brake applied it might have changed to 0.23

Yes, the brake controller outputs a variable brake voltage based on amount of deceleration or settings of controller. Since the controller is not getting the expected trigger it won't apply braking voltage.

Thank you! And only because I deal with this stuff daily (fleet of over 2000 vehicles in my purview). You had a good ground and are using a good quality meter? Not saying you don’t, it’s just something I gotta ask- I oversee the folks responsible for troubleshooting