Americas Love lost?

[Lord Ripon USA]

If only! Fed rate is above that, so they'd be taking a financial hit immediately. But I agree, there should be some consideration for Day 1 supporters beyond "pre-order pricing", which is starting to sound like it may hold for a while. I know demand is through the roof, but I suspect there are a lot of folks like me that see it and love it, but the reality of ownership costs brings them back to earth. Man, if only it were $15-20,000 less, I've be forever in love. Maybe I just need to orbit for a couple of years and pick one up on the used market. Even the red hot new Bronco eventually became just another used car, complete with depreciation. I think once you get a Grenny, new or used, it'll go the distance. Used may help the entry point and allow the love affair to start.

You have to understand how financing works for manufacturers.

First off, their cost is prime. Not consumer retail.

Secondly, they have profit built into the vehicle.

So they can forgo some profit, to essentially buy down the interest rate on your loan. That’s how all the big auto manufacturers are able to offer below market rate financing packages on their new sales.
It is a cost shift commonly used to keep selling a lot of cars, but not give the UAW big bonuses.
I won’t bother anybody with the math, but essentially you can back out, the expected rate of return on the loan, using basic finance formulas.
Expect to see 2.99% spreading across popular lines to keep volume up.

 

[Krabby]

I'm actually on the phone with Penfed now because they don't recognize the VIN. They are trying to figure out origin and thought it was Australian somehow and relaying messages between me and the underwriter. "So it's a British vehicle, with a German engine, designed by Austrians, made in France, and they're selling to you here?" If anyone else goes through the process with them, you're welcome for getting them sorted out.

I haven’t called them yet, but I’ll be sure to mention you when I do

Once my truck actually exists, Penfed is probably my first call, although when I bought my Raptor Chase came in a bit lower. Nevertheless Ill start there.

 

[Bruce]

I haven’t called them yet, but I’ll be sure to mention you when I do

Once my truck actually exists, Penfed is probably my first call, although when I bought my Raptor Chase came in a bit lower. Nevertheless Ill start there.

Underwriting went through so I am good to go. I will see what the dealer has but I feel like Penfed has done enough legwork to earn my business this time around!

 

[YellowLab]

Second test drive for me. Did the offroad course a couple months ago, which was loads of fun. Amazing. Did the road and highway test today, and it was...fine. No major complaints, but I didn't leave the dealership giddy. I'm very conflicted. It's an amazing offroad tool, arguably the best 'off the shelf' offroader built today. But it's expensive. All of the money is below the floorboard with best-in-class axles, suspension, lockers, etc. etc. etc. Incredibly well thought out and designed.

Above the floorboard, it's just OK. Quieter than my Jeep, but louder than my Land Cruiser and LR3. Driving experience was good. Power is good. It's tighter inside than I'd like but seats are comfortably snug in a good way. Rear seating area is entirely too tight - limited knee room and three adults across isn't practical. Rear seating position is too upright and not adjustable. I'd be miserable on a road trip back there. Premium radio is far from premium. I didn't hear the regular radio, but if this is the upgrade...yikes. Cargo area is smaller than I'd like with or without seats folded. I wish they'd been able to get the rear seats to fold flat to cargo bed, which would give you at least the impression of a bigger cargo area. Having to remove the headrest to lay rear seat flat is disappointing and doesn't feel like you're really adding much space. In fact, you have to tilt the seat forward first, then remove the headrest. Only then can you lay it flat. Before that, the middle rear seatbelt buckle has to be manhandled and aligned to get the seat to flip up. Just skip that whole process and push the seatback onto the seat. It's not quite flat, but close enough and avoids the gymnastics. Seems like an odd design decision. Yeah, I know all about the fuse box and wading thing. Still, seem like there had to be an option that wouldn't take away key cargo space.

New safety measures are being added for the 2024's, like emergency braking and a camera system that detects speed and driver drowsiness. That's great! Would it be a big leap to add adaptive cruise since 90% of the hardware is now there? I know simplicity is king here, but there is a lot of tech that is battle proven, would add to the experience and not going to leave you stranded. I think we'll see some of those added next go 'round.

The Grenny is a unique head-turner that would serve you well for decades. There's just a few misses that might be enough to make me pass on my reserved Fieldmaster until owner feedback is incorporated into improvements. A million miles tested isn't the same as a million miles of daily owner use. If the Grenny was $10-20,000 less, I wouldn't blink. With a few more conveniences and design improvements, I wouldn't blink. But as-is, as-priced, I think it's so-very-close but probably a miss for me, which I HATE as I've been anticipating this day for years. YEARS! I so badly wanted to love it. It's a lot of dough for a badass offroader with few driver conveniences in what needs to be a daily driver for a lot of folks. We all want to offroad, but the truth is that most of us will drive it to work, too. Just make that part a little better. I'm not asking for Lexus, just beat Jeep.

Fun fact: my dealership will lease them to you. In order for a lease to be priced, a residual must be established. The three year residual is currently set at 51-58%, with the Trialmaster being the quickest depreciating model (51%), and the regular stationwagon being the slowest (58%). That means that your 2024 Trialmaster will be worth about $40,000 in 2027. This surprises me greatly. With such a small annual production run, I would expect just the opposite. With such a small run (6000-7000/year Stateside), high margins are necessary for it to make sense for the dealers to build facilities, hire staff, training, etc. so I get the premium pricing. I just hope the value holds.

I think many folks are thinking the way you are - this is a major purchase. I would not worry too much about the lease rate as there is so little data on the car to know value. I know the last car we bought was a BMW 750 for my wife - about a year into having it she felt it was just too big and we looked to sell/trade in on a Taycan. With 6K miles on the BMW it - it dropped 50% in year one and kept dropping like a brick. We buy our cars outright and keep for a long time so in the big scheme of things it did not bother me. But, at the end of the day If you want resale - buy a 911, any Ferrari or even a Ford Raptor.

I walked away from my drive with similar thoughts about the materials like you did, but one of the wise scholars here pointed out that what I also thought was 'cheap' interior' - but it's the kind of plastic that wears like a rock. If it had nice surfaces like in a BMW or Range Rover - it would disintegrate quickly. This is a vehicle built to be pretty bare bones. My build come in the mid $90's and for what it will do - that is a fair price.

At the end of the day - the only opinion to care about is your own - and if the decision lets you sleep at night.

 

[BionicBrandon]

Well, I don't have much time to sit on the fence. My build is in transport and will be at the dealer next week. @James makes valid points about user intentions and whatnot. It's not meant to compete with a lot of what is out there. Nonetheless, I wonder if being competitor-blind has made them miss the market, even if by a little. Niche products can sell like hotcakes, but can also be relegated to curiosity. Jury is still out on this, but I tend to think less curiosity and more niche success, but we won't know for a while.

If I am honest with myself, I love the look and capabilities and the Walter Mitty-belief in future adventures. Will I really be brave enough to wade across a Colorado stream over my wheels? Maaaaybe? The dealer told me that a 'good part of the buyers' are people who own G-Wagons but are afraid to actually use them ruggedy and want something less expensive that they can get dirty. I get that (do I really? "My $200k truck is too pretty, what i need is a $85k truck to muck around in"). It's relative, I suppose. Will I be the same having spent $85k and too wary to risk dunking it? Or will I hear @James voice in my head, "grin a little, dive in!". If the answer is wariness, do I really need such a specific tool that I won't/can't use? If I dive in, can I placate my value-conscious self as I motor to the office?

I find myself in a conundrum. I have plenty of 4x4 daily drivers (the aforementioned Land Cruiser & LR3, and also my actual daily drivers, a Wrangler 4xe and Chevy Z71 Suburban) so I could make the argument to get a Purpose Built tool. But I also feel like deploying this much capital into a truck demands daily use. It would feel criminal to have it sit around as a weekender. Then, a weekender doesn't need bells and whistles.

This public soul searching is helpful. I am a deal seeker at heart, and this doesn't tick that box. However, I also am a quality seeker, and this is likely that. Will the old adage, "pay more, get more" hold true, or will this be the Volkswagen Phaeton? Hopefully, Ineos learned from that cautionary tale (tldr; amazing car, engineered to perfection, nobody wanted it). More experienced car guys than Sir Jim have built from the heart and missed the customer's needs. But then, Jim might be the guy who's G-Wagon is too pretty to muck around in ;-)

 

[Shopkeep]

Nah, love it.

 

[James]

Well, I don't have much time to sit on the fence. My build is in transport and will be at the dealer next week. @James makes valid points about user intentions and whatnot. It's not meant to compete with a lot of what is out there. Nonetheless, I wonder if being competitor-blind has made them miss the market, even if by a little. Niche products can sell like hotcakes, but can also be relegated to curiosity. Jury is still out on this, but I tend to think less curiosity and more niche success, but we won't know for a while.

If I am honest with myself, I love the look and capabilities and the Walter Mitty-belief in future adventures. Will I really be brave enough to wade across a Colorado stream over my wheels? Maaaaybe? The dealer told me that a 'good part of the buyers' are people who own G-Wagons but are afraid to actually use them ruggedy and want something less expensive that they can get dirty. I get that (do I really? "My $200k truck is too pretty, what i need is a $85k truck to muck around in"). It's relative, I suppose. Will I be the same having spent $85k and too wary to risk dunking it? Or will I hear @James voice in my head, "grin a little, dive in!". If the answer is wariness, do I really need such a specific tool that I won't/can't use? If I dive in, can I placate my value-conscious self as I motor to the office?

I find myself in a conundrum. I have plenty of 4x4 daily drivers (the aforementioned Land Cruiser & LR3, and also my actual daily drivers, a Wrangler 4xe and Chevy Z71 Suburban) so I could make the argument to get a Purpose Built tool. But I also feel like deploying this much capital into a truck demands daily use. It would feel criminal to have it sit around as a weekender. Then, a weekender doesn't need bells and whistles.

This public soul searching is helpful. I am a deal seeker at heart, and this doesn't tick that box. However, I also am a quality seeker, and this is likely that. Will the old adage, "pay more, get more" hold true, or will this be the Volkswagen Phaeton? Hopefully, Ineos learned from that cautionary tale (tldr; amazing car, engineered to perfection, nobody wanted it). More experienced car guys than Sir Jim have built from the heart and missed the customer's needs. But then, Jim might be the guy who's G-Wagon is too pretty to muck around in ;-)

i think, for whatever my opinion is worth (ie irrelevant really!) that you are in the text above asking yourself exactly the right question. And its not the ones about if you’ll wade deep enough, or definitely adventure lots more.

”I am a deal seeker… and this does not tick that box”. Bingo.
if you keep hold of that need to justify the purchase, and the attributes of the car against some criteria, and then feel that you’ve got a deal into the bargain too, you’ll beat yourself up and still not make the decison.

quality is not the easy answer either.

Appreciating this car boils down to its philisophy, and the fact that got maintained through the design and marketing process.
The car has authenticity.
Most cars can’t, and they try really hard, by bolting on rugged, or fast, or sexy looking bits, and using advertising. That’s all fake authenticity - they are mass market things chasing volume.
I cant answer your question/dilemma for you, no-one can. But if you clearly see what the question is, and what it isnt, you will find it much easier to be comfortable with your answer.

A big part of the satisfaction of using comes from the fact that its characteristics - both good and bad, clever and inconvenient, come from its purpose, moulded by an ethos that is not driven by the markets dominant features. Its driven by the needs of a vehicle that has clarity of purpose. Sportscars are the same - they are crap at some things, great at others.

so by all means be a highly rational deal-seeker in most of your life, but in this one, that is not helping you decide.

Good luck - let us know what you decide!

 

[AnD3rew]

Was lucky to get early pricing but would likely have bought anyway. There is no doubt this car isn’t for everyone and was never going to be a mass market car. For those of us who fit its niche that’s actually part of the appeal. For me I want serious offroad ability but not a comp truck or rock crawler. I want a bit of comfort but don’t need or want a luxo barge. More than anything I want longevity, admittedly this is unproven but the basics look good for that. I travel long distances to get to the places I like to play so I need highway cruising comfort and the Grenadier delivers that in spades. This car really is perfect for me. No regrets at all, time will tell but if I get 15 years of solid service out of it I will be delighted and will be worth every penny. There is nothing else on the market that suits me as well at any price.

 

[YellowLab]

Well, I don't have much time to sit on the fence. My build is in transport and will be at the dealer next week. @James makes valid points about user intentions and whatnot. It's not meant to compete with a lot of what is out there. Nonetheless, I wonder if being competitor-blind has made them miss the market, even if by a little. Niche products can sell like hotcakes, but can also be relegated to curiosity. Jury is still out on this, but I tend to think less curiosity and more niche success, but we won't know for a while.

If I am honest with myself, I love the look and capabilities and the Walter Mitty-belief in future adventures. Will I really be brave enough to wade across a Colorado stream over my wheels? Maaaaybe? The dealer told me that a 'good part of the buyers' are people who own G-Wagons but are afraid to actually use them ruggedy and want something less expensive that they can get dirty. I get that (do I really? "My $200k truck is too pretty, what i need is a $85k truck to muck around in"). It's relative, I suppose. Will I be the same having spent $85k and too wary to risk dunking it? Or will I hear @James voice in my head, "grin a little, dive in!". If the answer is wariness, do I really need such a specific tool that I won't/can't use? If I dive in, can I placate my value-conscious self as I motor to the office?

I find myself in a conundrum. I have plenty of 4x4 daily drivers (the aforementioned Land Cruiser & LR3, and also my actual daily drivers, a Wrangler 4xe and Chevy Z71 Suburban) so I could make the argument to get a Purpose Built tool. But I also feel like deploying this much capital into a truck demands daily use. It would feel criminal to have it sit around as a weekender. Then, a weekender doesn't need bells and whistles.

This public soul searching is helpful. I am a deal seeker at heart, and this doesn't tick that box. However, I also am a quality seeker, and this is likely that. Will the old adage, "pay more, get more" hold true, or will this be the Volkswagen Phaeton? Hopefully, Ineos learned from that cautionary tale (tldr; amazing car, engineered to perfection, nobody wanted it). More experienced car guys than Sir Jim have built from the heart and missed the customer's needs. But then, Jim might be the guy who's G-Wagon is too pretty to muck around in ;-)

You are being very thoughtful in your decision making - you'll figure out what works best. My vehicle arrived at port last week. Will I take this on a round the world trip - no. But will I take it into the 'outback a couple hours away AKA Mojave or into the western US on extended trips - absolutely. I look at this as a more purist play than other cars - it's designed for a purpose and as Porsche always said - 'Not something for everyone, but everything for someone.'

I feel better that we are on the 2nd model year and that so many other areas have helped worked out a few of the bugs (still a couple left - and thanks for those who came before). Do I have reservations - sure. Steering worthy of a container ship - so far thats all I can find - but pretty comfortable that can be fixed or addressed.

Post what you decide to so - have a good weekend.

 

[James]

. Steering worthy of a container ship - so far thats all I can find - but pretty comfortable that can be fixed or addressed.

As before, I and many others love the steering, after getting used to it. I have had genuinely boat-like steering on a few cars over the years, including a series 2A landy, a superb peugeot 404 on their legendary long springs, and countless old bangers, but the Grenadier is absolutely not a boat.
If that’s your main worry, you’re going to be a happy bunny… not long now!

 

[YellowLab]

As before, I and many others love the steering, after getting used to it. I have had genuinely boat-like steering on a few cars over the years, including a series 2A landy, a superb peugeot 404 on their legendary long springs, and countless old bangers, but the Grenadier is absolutely not a boat.
If that’s your main worry, you’re going to be a happy bunny… not long now!

Thanks for that feedback James - I’m T-30 days at this point

 

[James]

Thanks for that feedback James - I’m T-30 days at this point

Hopefully that’s a quick month… prob wont feel it

 

[FlyingTexan]

Second test drive for me. Did the offroad course a couple months ago, which was loads of fun. Amazing. Did the road and highway test today, and it was...fine. No major complaints, but I didn't leave the dealership giddy. I'm very conflicted. It's an amazing offroad tool, arguably the best 'off the shelf' offroader built today. But it's expensive. All of the money is below the floorboard with best-in-class axles, suspension, lockers, etc. etc. etc. Incredibly well thought out and designed.

Above the floorboard, it's just OK. Quieter than my Jeep, but louder than my Land Cruiser and LR3. Driving experience was good. Power is good. It's tighter inside than I'd like but seats are comfortably snug in a good way. Rear seating area is entirely too tight - limited knee room and three adults across isn't practical. Rear seating position is too upright and not adjustable. I'd be miserable on a road trip back there. Premium radio is far from premium. I didn't hear the regular radio, but if this is the upgrade...yikes. Cargo area is smaller than I'd like with or without seats folded. I wish they'd been able to get the rear seats to fold flat to cargo bed, which would give you at least the impression of a bigger cargo area. Having to remove the headrest to lay rear seat flat is disappointing and doesn't feel like you're really adding much space. In fact, you have to tilt the seat forward first, then remove the headrest. Only then can you lay it flat. Before that, the middle rear seatbelt buckle has to be manhandled and aligned to get the seat to flip up. Just skip that whole process and push the seatback onto the seat. It's not quite flat, but close enough and avoids the gymnastics. Seems like an odd design decision. Yeah, I know all about the fuse box and wading thing. Still, seem like there had to be an option that wouldn't take away key cargo space.

New safety measures are being added for the 2024's, like emergency braking and a camera system that detects speed and driver drowsiness. That's great! Would it be a big leap to add adaptive cruise since 90% of the hardware is now there? I know simplicity is king here, but there is a lot of tech that is battle proven, would add to the experience and not going to leave you stranded. I think we'll see some of those added next go 'round.

The Grenny is a unique head-turner that would serve you well for decades. There's just a few misses that might be enough to make me pass on my reserved Fieldmaster until owner feedback is incorporated into improvements. A million miles tested isn't the same as a million miles of daily owner use. If the Grenny was $10-20,000 less, I wouldn't blink. With a few more conveniences and design improvements, I wouldn't blink. But as-is, as-priced, I think it's so-very-close but probably a miss for me, which I HATE as I've been anticipating this day for years. YEARS! I so badly wanted to love it. It's a lot of dough for a badass offroader with few driver conveniences in what needs to be a daily driver for a lot of folks. We all want to offroad, but the truth is that most of us will drive it to work, too. Just make that part a little better. I'm not asking for Lexus, just beat Jeep.

Fun fact: my dealership will lease them to you. In order for a lease to be priced, a residual must be established. The three year residual is currently set at 51-58%, with the Trialmaster being the quickest depreciating model (51%), and the regular stationwagon being the slowest (58%). That means that your 2024 Trialmaster will be worth about $40,000 in 2027. This surprises me greatly. With such a small annual production run, I would expect just the opposite. With such a small run (6000-7000/year Stateside), high margins are necessary for it to make sense for the dealers to build facilities, hire staff, training, etc. so I get the premium pricing. I just hope the value holds.

Did you move the back seat? My buddy is 6'8" and enjoyed it.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Another consideration: my local dealer tells me that Ineos has a financing partner, and they are quoting 10% for 60 months. After taxes, etc. you're looking at a payment of $1800/month...for five years. At that payment, it's a daily driver (if not a house payment), so the driver amenities become even more critical. @Joefly78, I thought about just taking delivery and seeing if someone wanted it more than I do. Looking at overseas markets, the pricing isn't going crazy - "flippers" in the UK are selling their <100km Grenny's for what they paid. This surprises me given the limited production, which means there must be limited buyers. My guess is that there's just not meat left on the bone north of $85K, especially since interest rates are hurting buying power. I may eat those words, though. I just worry that this may be too niche of a vehicle for people who need a daily driver as well as true grit offroad.

That depends on where you are I think. I'm in Texas and grew up in a small town. All anyone knows from there is owning a truck. The Grenadier will be the best driver many have had.

 

[S52]

Second test drive for me. Did the offroad course a couple months ago, which was loads of fun. Amazing. Did the road and highway test today, and it was...fine. No major complaints, but I didn't leave the dealership giddy. I'm very conflicted. It's an amazing offroad tool, arguably the best 'off the shelf' offroader built today. But it's expensive. All of the money is below the floorboard with best-in-class axles, suspension, lockers, etc. etc. etc. Incredibly well thought out and designed.

Above the floorboard, it's just OK. Quieter than my Jeep, but louder than my Land Cruiser and LR3. Driving experience was good. Power is good. It's tighter inside than I'd like but seats are comfortably snug in a good way. Rear seating area is entirely too tight - limited knee room and three adults across isn't practical. Rear seating position is too upright and not adjustable. I'd be miserable on a road trip back there. Premium radio is far from premium. I didn't hear the regular radio, but if this is the upgrade...yikes. Cargo area is smaller than I'd like with or without seats folded. I wish they'd been able to get the rear seats to fold flat to cargo bed, which would give you at least the impression of a bigger cargo area. Having to remove the headrest to lay rear seat flat is disappointing and doesn't feel like you're really adding much space. In fact, you have to tilt the seat forward first, then remove the headrest. Only then can you lay it flat. Before that, the middle rear seatbelt buckle has to be manhandled and aligned to get the seat to flip up. Just skip that whole process and push the seatback onto the seat. It's not quite flat, but close enough and avoids the gymnastics. Seems like an odd design decision. Yeah, I know all about the fuse box and wading thing. Still, seem like there had to be an option that wouldn't take away key cargo space.

New safety measures are being added for the 2024's, like emergency braking and a camera system that detects speed and driver drowsiness. That's great! Would it be a big leap to add adaptive cruise since 90% of the hardware is now there? I know simplicity is king here, but there is a lot of tech that is battle proven, would add to the experience and not going to leave you stranded. I think we'll see some of those added next go 'round.

The Grenny is a unique head-turner that would serve you well for decades. There's just a few misses that might be enough to make me pass on my reserved Fieldmaster until owner feedback is incorporated into improvements. A million miles tested isn't the same as a million miles of daily owner use. If the Grenny was $10-20,000 less, I wouldn't blink. With a few more conveniences and design improvements, I wouldn't blink. But as-is, as-priced, I think it's so-very-close but probably a miss for me, which I HATE as I've been anticipating this day for years. YEARS! I so badly wanted to love it. It's a lot of dough for a badass offroader with few driver conveniences in what needs to be a daily driver for a lot of folks. We all want to offroad, but the truth is that most of us will drive it to work, too. Just make that part a little better. I'm not asking for Lexus, just beat Jeep.

Fun fact: my dealership will lease them to you. In order for a lease to be priced, a residual must be established. The three year residual is currently set at 51-58%, with the Trialmaster being the quickest depreciating model (51%), and the regular stationwagon being the slowest (58%). That means that your 2024 Trialmaster will be worth about $40,000 in 2027. This surprises me greatly. With such a small annual production run, I would expect just the opposite. With such a small run (6000-7000/year Stateside), high margins are necessary for it to make sense for the dealers to build facilities, hire staff, training, etc. so I get the premium pricing. I just hope the value holds.

Curios where you heard the federally mandated safety “upgrades” would be introduced in the 2024 model year? My dealer informed me these would not be implemented until the 2025 models released late next year.

I’m personally not a fan of extra nannies and features especially a camera monitoring system (tinfoil hat on) so I hope its 2025!

 

[Bruce]

Curios where you heard the federally mandated safety “upgrades” would be introduced in the 2024 model year? My dealer informed me these would not be implemented until the 2025 models released late next year.

I’m personally not a fan of extra nannies and features especially a camera monitoring system (tinfoil hat on) so I hope its 2025!

The 2024 US brochure lists ADAS as standard.

https://mss-p-034-delivery.stylelabs.cloud/api/public/content/Public_brochure_US

Page 29. Speed assist, lane departure, emergency braking, and drowsiness detection.

 

[Trialmaster]

The 2024 US brochure lists ADAS as standard.

https://mss-p-034-delivery.stylelabs.cloud/api/public/content/Public_brochure_US

Page 29. Speed assist, lane departure, emergency braking, and drowsiness detection.

It is - I've listed the changes between 2023 and 2024 and they are minor.

 

[Krabby]

Curios where you heard the federally mandated safety “upgrades” would be introduced in the 2024 model year? My dealer informed me these would not be implemented until the 2025 models released late next year.

I’m personally not a fan of extra nannies and features especially a camera monitoring system (tinfoil hat on) so I hope its 2025!

The ADAS package for NA has been slated for a while and it is essentially by mandate not choice.

I believe other forced “upgrades” may be coming in 2025 - they were attached to the road upgrade bill.

Cheat Sheet

 

[S52]

The ADAS package for NA has been slated for a while and it is essentially by mandate not choice.

I believe other forced “upgrades” may be coming in 2025 - they were attached to the road upgrade bill.

Looks like ill be in the market for another interior camera cover just as I fitted on my Tesla

 

[James]

The ADAS package for NA has been slated for a while and it is essentially by mandate not choice.

I believe other forced “upgrades” may be coming in 2025 - they were attached to the road upgrade bill.

Cheat Sheet

Yep. I think all markets are anticipating additional legally required abilities/features,, if not every year then soon. Australia was unsure if we would require adas in 2024, but dont know how much longer until its mandated. EU will prob require some form of it very soon. South Africa currently doesnt even need ad blue in their diesels; maybe they’ll get the least complexity and start exporting second hand cars