Letter to Lynne Calder

[Dawid Potgieter]

Please include South Africa in your letter. Same issues here, and I suspect world wide.

 

[255/85]

If we were all asking for the inclusion of specific features I'd like to see the engine oil pressure included on the temperature pane. But we're not so I won't.

I do think the inclusion of this type of info adds to the reliability of and trust in the vehicle which is arguably part of the Grenadier ethos.

 

[Tom D]

I am drafting the letter just now, I am keeping it simple and to the basic points raised earlier in the thread.
If we are successful in opening channels of communication with IA through this letter / petition whatever we want to call it then that would be a better opportunity to raise other more minor issues and suggestions.

 

[Tom D]

OK. Here it is..

 

[PDX_Keith]

Regarding ADAS, she herself promised an update on camera while she was here at the LA Auto Show. Integrity as a cultural value within a complete starts at the top.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Well done, thank you for the effort.

My only comment or suggestion would be to expand on the workshop manual with a parts catalogue and exploded diagrams to make part identification and ordering easier - at the moment it is virtually impossible unless the vehicle is at an Ineos partner (like a bodyshop / 3rd party repairer).

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

@Tom D How is best to host this to get the signatures of grenadier owners?

@Stu_Barnes can you confirm number of forum members and number of grenadier owners? Might be good to add factual numbers.

 

[PDX_Keith]

Regarding ADAS, she herself promised an update on camera while she was here at the LA Auto Show. Integrity as a cultural value within a complete starts at the top.

View: https://youtu.be/5VfYOdxlpos?si=_3QRHaXelyp_ADPV
9 minutes 30 seconds in...

 

[Dlucky]

OK. Here it is..

I’ll sign when you have it worked out how to get signatures

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Just a couple of thoughts
I would want to make sure the founders of the forum are comfortable with the wording - it’s not an “official” Forum communiqué, but still . . .
I would take out the litigation point - would try to make this about getting transparency vs hostility
I would not ask for any “guaranty” promise - no corporate attorney would ever agree to this after the fact - it should be more about what kind of service standard they want to set up

 

[Tom D]

Just a couple of thoughts
I would want to make sure the founders of the forum are comfortable with the wording - it’s not an “official” Forum communiqué, but still . . .
I would take out the litigation point - would try to make this about getting transparency vs hostility
I would not ask for any “guaranty” promise - no corporate attorney would ever agree to this after the fact - it should be more about what kind of service standard they want to set up

It’s interesting that you read that as hostile. I tried to write it without hostility, I don’t feel the need to rant. Regarding the mis-selling, here in the UK it’s a big thing. Many banks and loan companies have faced lawsuits recently for mis-selling, and the dieselgate thing has resulted in loads of claims too. I really want IA to succeed as in a way I am an investor. A lawsuit does no one any favours… That said there could easily be one if the manual fails to materialise. I think they should know that. I wont be the one to start it, but someone else might.

I genuinely think that this forum is a massive positive for IA, I really hope that they realise that.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

It’s interesting that you read that as hostile. I tried to write it without hostility, I don’t feel the need to rant. Regarding the mis-selling, here in the UK it’s a big thing. Many banks and loan companies have faced lawsuits recently for mis-selling, and the dieselgate thing has resulted in loads of claims too. I really want IA to succeed as in a way I am an investor. A lawsuit does no one any favours… That said there could easily be one if the manual fails to materialise. I think they should know that. I wont be the one to start it, but someone else might.

I genuinely think that this forum is a massive positive for IA, I really hope that they realise that.

Yeah I got it - but this will be read by their attorneys and it could be viewed as an implicit threat of legal action. I would just leave that bit out - it’s difficult to initiate open dialogue and improve transparency if that is lurking under the surface

 

[Clark Kent]

Hi @Tom D,

We have been informed several times that IA staff monitor this forum. I think that's a good thing BTW. It's probable that someone has already shot a message to their upline that a group letter is forthcoming. The impact of what will be delivered is being diminished by the public debate over the past week. The powder is no longer dry so to speak. With so many forum members, mixed agendas and opinions it was always going to be difficult to get consensus up front.

Respectfully, perhaps it's time to close this thread and proceed with what you have. The real consensus will come from how well this community gets behind and supports the submission, and on that point I am confident you will do a great job. Thank you for your initiative.

 

[Karearea]

Awesome effort Tom D
This will be getting my support

 

[Stu_Barnes]

@Tom D How is best to host this to get the signatures of grenadier owners?

@Stu_Barnes can you confirm number of forum members and number of grenadier owners? Might be good to add factual numbers.

The back end is in place to handle all this. We created it for the INEOS dealer excellence awards in the Americas.

 

[Zimm]

Don't worry, modern investment theory will suggest they will miss the bottom or the top and miss the majority of the gains that can be made just by hanging on in there. If you are not a day trader, most short term maket movements are just noise!

Modern investment theory doesnt take into account insider trading by the guy at the top. At that point you’re now in old time poker theory, which states, if you don’t know who at the table is the mark, it’s you.

 

[CRH]

There is a right to repair thread with threats of legal action posted on Wednesday 9th April 2025
Post in thread 'Right to Repair' https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/right-to-repair.12417601/post-1333334211

 

[Barney]

So, It was suggested in the stuck in Namibia thread that a letter ought to be sent to IA to question the standard of after sales care. This can then be signed by any interested parties.
I’d be happy to write it, however I think that as it’s a letter from the Grenadier owning community then it ought to be representative of the views of that community. So I would like your feedback.
I sense that many of the issues with customer service are mostly in the European market however some affect the rest of the world too.

Topics I would include in the letter:
Spare parts availability. Why aren’t parts available next day as they are for other manufacturers?

Diagnostics: Why are owners unable to diagnose faults and reset service intervals as we were promised in the buildup to launch. We were told that this would be a car that you can work on yourself.

The workshop manual: Where is it? Will we ever get it or have they changed their minds on this?

Others??
Please make your suggestions below.

Thank you for your initiative. You won't be able to do justice to everyone, but it's all about presenting our shared opinion and positioning ourselves as a unified group. That's exactly what you've done with this letter. I would sign it, too.

 

[Tom D]

Hi @Tom D,

We have been informed several times that IA staff monitor this forum. I think that's a good thing BTW. It's probable that someone has already shot a message to their upline that a group letter is forthcoming. The impact of what will be delivered is being diminished by the public debate over the past week. The powder is no longer dry so to speak. With so many forum members, mixed agendas and opinions it was always going to be difficult to get consensus up front.

Respectfully, perhaps it's time to close this thread and proceed with what you have. The real consensus will come from how well this community gets behind and supports the submission, and on that point I am confident you will do a great job. Thank you for your initiative.

I think you are right. The letter reflects my own views which are shared by many people on the forum. We could keep discussing ad nauseam on what could or could not be included in the letter. If we are successful in opening channels of communication other issues can be raised later. I will send the letter tomorrow to the senior management emails that I have. Hopefully I will get a response. Perhaps @Stu_Barnes can relocate the letter to a separate place on the forum where owners can add their signatures, and potentially their comments?

I always knew that whatever i wrote would not please everyone, however I think it raises the main points without being too confrontational. I would genuinely love INEOS to engage more with the forum, I think it would be a huge positive.

I will keep you updated if I receive any response.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

View: https://youtu.be/5VfYOdxlpos?si=_3QRHaXelyp_ADPV
9 minutes 30 seconds in...

As an aside that is an interesting hour of conversation, thanks for sharing