INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

[Krabby]

What. The. F*ck?!

INSANE MARKUP

 

[Deleted User Account.]

What. The. F*ck?!

INSANE MARKUP

Market price being radically different from msrp results in this kind of flipping. Standard practice in the bourbon market nowadays. Good luck ever finding the rare stuff at msrp.

 

[Aurans]

Market price being radically different from msrp results in this kind of flipping. Standard practice in the bourbon market nowadays. Good luck ever finding the rare stuff at msrp.

So, the Tesla S Plaid it is then.

 

[DaveB]

What. The. F*ck?!

INSANE MARKUP

Don't blame the dealers
They only sell it for what dumb arse idiots are willing to pay.

 

[Tazzieman]

OIA

 

[Norville]

Don't blame the dealers
They only sell it for what dumb arse idiots re willing to pay.

It takes two to tango.

 

[Max]

It takes two to tango.

Sure does...now one has the money that the idiot gave him...does the tango involve carrots...or am I just making an ass of myself...

 

[Sphinx]

There's a lot of misinformation about Ineos being legally allowed to sell directly. They can in many states. Others, they are blocked by anticompetitive franchise laws. FTC held a hearing on this issue in 2015 and agreed that state franchise laws violate federal antitrust laws. But no one has the courage or money to sue to break them up. Also what Tesla did by owning their entire infrastructure is very expensive. So there are good business reasons to go with dealers in the short term. Long term, there's a reason that VWs scout unit will bypass the dealers. Expect Ford to follow at some point. Actually expect EV only subsidiaries of legacy car companies to direct to consumers and bypass the dealers. That's why they are setting up separate channels - see what Ford is doing.

Tesla had a shot at busting up the entire system in a Michigan case a few years ago but they got a deal out of the state and didn't fight till the end.

Bottom line is that this works for Ineos. Honestly, as long as I can get mine for sticker, the other buyers have to make their own deals. Besides they might get better prices below list at some point.

 

[Krabby]

What. The. F*ck?!

INSANE MARKUP

It's a horrible practice and it's been discussed here in other threads, but that's an insane sum in my opinion. I agree that it's a two way street and as it's been said, there's a sucker born every minute. But it just boils my blood - it's just pure greed on the part of dealerships. No other word to describe it.

 

[Great Basin ADV]

INEOS has no choice. US dealer franchise laws, state by state, are written to protect the financial interests of dealers. Period. If INEOS tries something else, they are subject to long and costly lawsuits. It is unrealistic to expect anything different for a new, small player in the US auto market.

BS.

I just just returned from the "Prototype" Driving experience in Mayer, AZ yesterday. As to your post. We have market power as the group of "EARLY ADOPTERS", we better get smart and use that collective influence.

INEOS has invested Billions of Dollars to sell a low volume product because JLR gave "Sir Jim" the finger. They have had nearly 7 years to come up with something innovative. To do the right thing, from a strategy standpoint and take the franchise "stealership" model and put in it the waste can. If you can and must configure your vehicle directly with the factory as a "Reservation" holder, financing if needed will come from a 3rd party, and if you are like me, live in a State where there will be no dealership, why do I need to comp a franchise dealer to have the vehicle rolled off a transport truck? I will be doing the title paperwork myself? Setup an escrow contract Title and Agency model which is fee based, like what is done in the industrial equipment world all day long. IA should RORO the vehicle to the lowest cost port of entry in NA and let me, the buyer pay the shipping to my location, or pickup and drive with temporary transit permits and insurance to my State DMV to title and register. This is just entrenched "old school" think from US auto industry "experts" and mentally lazy on the part of IA. Yes, they've "driven the last mile", but in the last 100 yards are willing to take it off a cliff and miss the opportunity to do something innovative with their delivery model. They could build an army of advocates with the first adopters to this brand. If the dealers "gouge" this group this could go very wrong from a Brand perspective. Just my '02 cents worth. Happy to learn what "Reservation Holders" think and how to best make our voice heard by "the factory".

 

[vjmvjm]

BS.

I just just returned from the "Prototype" Driving experience in Mayer, AZ yesterday. As to your post. We have market power as the group of "EARLY ADOPTERS", we better get smart and use that collective influence.

INEOS has invested Billions of Dollars to sell a low volume product because JLR gave "Sir Jim" the finger. They have had nearly 7 years to come up with something innovative. To do the right thing, from a strategy standpoint and take the franchise "stealership" model and put in it the waste can. If you can and must configure your vehicle directly with the factory as a "Reservation" holder, financing if needed will come from a 3rd party, and if you are like me, live in a State where there will be no dealership, why do I need to comp a franchise dealer to have the vehicle rolled off a transport truck? I will be doing the title paperwork myself? Setup an escrow contract Title and Agency model which is fee based, like what is done in the industrial equipment world all day long. IA should RORO the vehicle to the lowest cost port of entry in NA and let me, the buyer pay the shipping to my location, or pickup and drive with temporary transit permits and insurance to my State DMV to title and register. This is just entrenched "old school" think from US auto industry "experts" and mentally lazy on the part of IA. Yes, they've "driven the last mile", but in the last 100 yards are willing to take it off a cliff and miss the opportunity to do something innovative with their delivery model. They could build an army of advocates with the first adopters to this brand. If the dealers "gouge" this group this could go very wrong from a Brand perspective. Just my '02 cents worth. Happy to learn what "Reservation Holders" think and how to best make our voice heard by "the factory".

Market power? You must be joking. INEOS will sell every vehicle they can manufacture for at least the first few years. So why would they want to invest money in their own distribution and service system when there are plenty of dealerships willing to do it for them? They decided several years ago that this was the preferred model for the US. It is not going to change. I don't like dealers any more than you do, but unless you're willing to quickly and successfully bankroll this alternative system for INEOS, it's not going to happen. Go buy a Cybertruck and enjoy Elon's great customer service.

 

[emax]

Maybe someone else mentioned this already, but I'll ask anyway.

In Germany, a dealer can ask any price for a car. There is no regulation by the authorities (apart from extortion cases). So he's completely free in his pricing and business decisions. That's what the laws in the US are for, I understand.

But: If I order a car in Germany, this is - legally - my offer to the dealer to sell me something for the price in the order. If the dealer then sends me an order confirmation, he -again legally- accepts my offer and the price is then binding for both parties. We call this an "order confirmation". A dealer or a sales person must never change the price of a confirmed order to which both have agreed.

Some minor exceptions are strictly regulated. "Error" on the part of the dealer for example (must be proven), "natural disasters", "war" and the like. And an "error" can certainly not amount to $20000.

Is there no such thing like a binding order confirmation in the US?

 

[Sphinx]

Market power? You must be joking. INEOS will sell every vehicle they can manufacture for at least the first few years. So why would they want to invest money in their own distribution and service system when there are plenty of dealerships willing to do it for them? They decided several years ago that this was the preferred model for the US. It is not going to change. I don't like dealers any more than you do, but unless you're willing to quickly and successfully bankroll this alternative system for INEOS, it's not going to happen. Go buy a Cybertruck and enjoy Elon's great customer service.

Because 1) they cut out the middleman and his required profit margins and 2) to control the customer experience. As much of a PITA as Tesla is to deal with, it is 100x better than the vast majority of dealers. Also, it's the reason that they can control pricing on their terms, not some random general manager for a dealership.

BTW, no need to argue - Bob Lutz, former vice-chair of GM said it himself, dealers are going to die soon. It's over. It isn't a matter of opinion, that ship has sailed. But it won't happen overnight. Give it another 10-15 years.

Ineos should have had a mix of dealers in some smaller markets and then company owned stores in major markets.

 

[Great Basin ADV]

BS.

I just just returned from the "Prototype" Driving experience in Mayer, AZ yesterday. As to your post. We have market power as the group of "EARLY ADOPTERS", we better get smart and use that collective influence.

INEOS has invested Billions of Dollars to sell a low volume product because JLR gave "Sir Jim" the finger. They have had nearly 7 years to come up with something innovative. To do the right thing, from a strategy standpoint and take the franchise "stealership" model and put in it the waste can. If you can and must configure your vehicle directly with the factory as a "Reservation" holder, financing if needed will come from a 3rd party, and if you are like me, live in a State where there will be no dealership, why do I need to comp a franchise dealer to have the vehicle rolled off a transport truck? I will be doing the title paperwork myself? Setup an escrow contract Title and Agency model which is fee based, like what is done in the industrial equipment world all day long. IA should RORO the vehicle to the lowest cost port of entry in NA and let me, the buyer pay the shipping to my location, or pickup and drive with temporary transit permits and insurance to my State DMV to title and register. This is just entrenched "old school" think from US auto industry "experts" and mentally lazy on the part of IA. Yes, they've "driven the last mile", but in the last 100 yards are willing to take it off a cliff and miss the opportunity to do something innovative with their delivery model. They could build an army of advocates with the first adopters to this brand. If the dealers "gouge" this group this could go very wrong from a Brand perspective. Just my '02 cents worth. Happy to learn what "Reservation Holders" think and how to best make our voice heard by "the factory".

Market power? You must be joking. INEOS will sell every vehicle they can manufacture for at least the first few years. So why would they want to invest money in their own distribution and service system when there are plenty of dealerships willing to do it for them? They decided several years ago that this was the preferred model for the US. It is not going to change. I don't like dealers any more than you do, but unless you're willing to quickly and successfully bankroll this alternative system for INEOS, it's not going to happen. Go buy a Cybertruck and enjoy Elon's great customer service.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. Your missing my point. I've spent 40 years in the Semiconductor and Computer business in the Sales and Marketing side of the business. "Early adopters" deliver a brand message better than anything else you can spend money on, especially at launch. I am by no means a Tesla fan boy, too subsidized a model for me. However in the case of Dealers investing in distribution and service, that should be funded on the margin between MSRP and dealer cost, not on ADM. Hoping INEOS NA have communicated very tight expectations of how important early adopters are and that they can be a blessing or a curse. If the dealer experience and vehicle/brand performance, which includes price, is good, we should be publicly supportive and INEOS should ask us to be. If either is not, we need to be very public about our willingness to express that dis-pleasure. That's market power, not pricing power. Take care and looking forward to the next phase.

Regards,

 

[DDG]

I am new here and have been reading through this post-glad i have a reservation! Sadly the only way these dealers are getting away with the Market Adjustments is that people are paying them which I won't do. I have not even looked at a new Corvette Z06 once I heard the stupid markups being added. The only thing you can do is seek out a dealer that shoots straight on pricing and build a relationship, be patient, and cross your fingers they get an allocation!

I guess some people just have the mentality that they have to have the latest and greatest no matter the cost. For me I would rather have the manufacturer raise their price to market and give those dealers a big middle finger, at least that way the people that designed and built the car get the windfall for designing and building something that people want.

This approach should be gospel. I have never paid a markup. I’ve been successful at purchasing everything except a Porsche GT3 (I’ve written them off as a scam). You might have to wait, and super low volume stuff will always command a markup in the US market. It would be insane to pay a markup on a Grenadier. Period

 

[d1rty]

Welp, I'm out. Too many external concerns about the Grenadier. From dealers and gouging to financing to repairs. Just bought a GMC Sierra AT4 with the Baby Duramax - 3 liter diesel with 305hp/495tq. GM built up too much inventory and has pushed hold backs to the dealers as well as 2.9% for 60 month financing. Done deal. Picked it up Tuesday, best commute so far is 27.8 mpg. In a full size pickup. Amazing.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Welp, I'm out. Too many external concerns about the Grenadier. From dealers and gouging to financing to repairs. Just bought a GMC Sierra AT4 with the Baby Duramax - 3 liter diesel with 305hp/495tq. GM built up too much inventory and has pushed hold backs to the dealers as well as 2.9% for 60 month financing. Done deal. Picked it up Tuesday, best commute so far is 27.8 mpg. In a full size pickup. Amazing.

Glad to have you, sad to see you leave. Enjoy the new ride.

 

[DaveB]

Glad to have you, sad to see you leave. Enjoy the new ride.

Wow
Almost word for word for a comment I made to a girlfriend years ago

 

[Deleted User Account.]

Welp, I'm out. Too many external concerns about the Grenadier. From dealers and gouging to financing to repairs. Just bought a GMC Sierra AT4 with the Baby Duramax - 3 liter diesel with 305hp/495tq. GM built up too much inventory and has pushed hold backs to the dealers as well as 2.9% for 60 month financing. Done deal. Picked it up Tuesday, best commute so far is 27.8 mpg. In a full size pickup. Amazing.

I love my duramax. If i didn't have a truck and had to choose between that and something like the grenadier, it's the truck every time.

 

[roozkhan]

At the tampa.get together the ineos rep said reservation holders are protected from dealer markups but only reservation holders. The video is on YouTube