The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Grenadier vs 2024 Land Cruiser

Local time
5:32 AM
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
968
Location
Pittsburgh
Curb weight on a Grenadier easily meets and may exceed a comparably spec'd Crew Cab F150. 500lbs can make a huge difference in fuel mileage.

Also, modern pickups suffer little aerodynamic loss due to their beds. Nowadays everything is worked out in a wind tunnel to minimize any deleterious effects. Most manufacturers even advise keeping the tailgate closed for best efficiency.



What would it possibly do better? Drive the interstate? Or cross the Simpson over and over and over again? What are the parameters of this comparison wherein the Grenadier comes in second?

The truth is there's no way to be certain of either vehicle at this point. At least we know that Ineos' aim was to deliver a hard working vehicle with a 25 year lifespan. That's certainly not what the LC250/GX550 is aimed at. They're really just a slightly beefed up 4Runner with a hybrid drive train targeted at the easy market Toyota has discovered (or developed) for high end TRD Offroad Pro models. Have they been run hard for decades on the African continent or in other third world countries? Do we know for certain that the Grenadier can survive such use? The answer to both questions is "No". It remains to be seen.

Going forward Ineos may be forced to kowtow to Joe Average in the U.S. market and dish up horsepower numbers which the B58 can deliver if needed. I hope not because it's antithetical to their stated aim. (The B57 already outperforms the Toyota 2.8T diesel in real Land Cruisers and does well enough on the mileage front.) Maybe petrol Fieldmasters will get a hybrid option at some point to satisfy the stoplight-to-stoplight crowd. The ZF 8HP51s are already designed for it as part of the torque converter system. Again, that's really all Toyota has done with the new 250 in my opinion and it's a better option for some without a doubt - round headlights or no.
Its a pickup and frequently has a load. That combined mileage also includes towing a bass boat all over PA every summer. 500 pounds does NOT make a 28% difference, especially on the highway where I'm always above 20 unloaded and Ineos is reporting 15. I assumed that highway number was a misprint, but it hasn't gone away, nor been proven inaccurate. Oh, and the weight differnce is 200 pounds, not 500. The size of the average american wife.

Both vehicles spent time in a wind tunnel and minimizing isn't the same as eliminating.

I'm not bitching about the Hp. 250hp/300tq has always been what I personally consider the golden zone for power and mileage in an suv. But for instance, this gets 5 fewer mpg than a defender weighting 6450lbs but with 400hp. What gives?

As to WHERE the LC will do better? The answer is yes. My statement was intended as all encompassing as it sounded. Really just pick it. I've driven locked trucks and Atrac for decades now, and atrac was that good in 2001, let alone today. Yes, you will have some surface conditions where the ease of passing favors a front locker, but neither of these trucks are rock crawlers that can really take serious advantage of front lockers, and nothing the Gren will do will be impassible for the LC, whereas, on road, and especially on washboard, the gren wont hold a candle. If Toyota provided the new LC with the same rear tire clearance as my 100 and the 200, the gren will actually lose an RTI challenge.

The Gren? It'll do what I want it to do, so it's not like I'm buying a painting to hang on the wall, and.... It's cool. Really cool. All the knobs and buttons would have fit on dash and center, and been much much better ergonomically and safer, but... It's cool. It's too heavy for it's payload, and tows LESS than the new Lexus, which also has a magic disappearing third row, but,... the gren's cool. Really cool. I won't pretend it's something it isnt. But it's cool. And it's OK to want something because it's cool.

Note: I'm only comparing to the new US spec LC's. The new ROW 7x series is a whole nother animal but more apples to apples I suspect. I take this over the 4 door, but if one needed an outback van for space, I don't know why you'd get the van version of this over a troopy.
 
Local time
2:32 AM
Joined
Mar 26, 2023
Messages
119
Reaction score
154
Location
OC Calif, USA
Zimm, you’re saying what I’ve been thinking for a while. I’m not sure I understand why the gasoline/petrol powered Gren is so fuel inefficient. On some of these actual measured threads we are seeing an average of like 14 over thousands of miles. Yes it’s a heavy brick and never destined for greatness, but it seems that there has to be some drivetrain drag that is sucking out and extra 10%. My guess is the full time 4wd of the transfer case is just not as efficient as the PT transfer case of an F150, or the electronic locking cases of the LC or Defender. Certainly not the end of the world, and probably won’t sway me, but when fuel cost spikes, it definitely makes you pay attention at the pump.
 
Local time
5:32 AM
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
73
Reaction score
78
Location
Georgia, USA
I was just in Chicago last week and the Auto Show was Gearing up. The IG is and always be a bespoke designed vehicle not for the Masses.
The USA market is tough to crack in any vehicle The IG will do well in Yuppy areas like the Hamptons and parts of CA Second Hand Defenders are stupid money in the USA.

The Landcruiser will sell well but the 4 cyclinder will be a issue for many even though it will be a good engine Americans love the V8s and as they say why would I want a 4 banger. Time will tell.
I think its a hard comparison what IG should think about is a V8 option for the american market such as the N63 BMW supercharged they will keep the american market happy.
As all purchase of vehicles we have choices the IG for many is a choice, we chose the IG if we wanted a New Defender Land Cruiser we would have bought one they are all in the same price point within 15%.
A V8 would be fantastic in the IG with 400 plus hp minimum. We are living in the golden age of horsepower. I mean, whoever said pop the hood and let’s look at your 4cyl?
 

255/85

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
2:32 AM
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
764
Reaction score
859
Location
Western U.S.
Its a pickup and frequently has a load. That combined mileage also includes towing a bass boat all over PA every summer. 500 pounds does NOT make a 28% difference, especially on the highway where I'm always above 20 unloaded and Ineos is reporting 15. I assumed that highway number was a misprint, but it hasn't gone away, nor been proven inaccurate. Oh, and the weight differnce is 200 pounds, not 500. The size of the average american wife.

Both vehicles spent time in a wind tunnel and minimizing isn't the same as eliminating.

I'm not bitching about the Hp. 250hp/300tq has always been what I personally consider the golden zone for power and mileage in an suv. But for instance, this gets 5 fewer mpg than a defender weighting 6450lbs but with 400hp. What gives?

As to WHERE the LC will do better? The answer is yes. My statement was intended as all encompassing as it sounded. Really just pick it. I've driven locked trucks and Atrac for decades now, and atrac was that good in 2001, let alone today. Yes, you will have some surface conditions where the ease of passing favors a front locker, but neither of these trucks are rock crawlers that can really take serious advantage of front lockers, and nothing the Gren will do will be impassible for the LC, whereas, on road, and especially on washboard, the gren wont hold a candle. If Toyota provided the new LC with the same rear tire clearance as my 100 and the 200, the gren will actually lose an RTI challenge.

The Gren? It'll do what I want it to do, so it's not like I'm buying a painting to hang on the wall, and.... It's cool. Really cool. All the knobs and buttons would have fit on dash and center, and been much much better ergonomically and safer, but... It's cool. It's too heavy for it's payload, and tows LESS than the new Lexus, which also has a magic disappearing third row, but,... the gren's cool. Really cool. I won't pretend it's something it isnt. But it's cool. And it's OK to want something because it's cool.

Note: I'm only comparing to the new US spec LC's. The new ROW 7x series is a whole nother animal but more apples to apples I suspect. I take this over the 4 door, but if one needed an outback van for space, I don't know why you'd get the van version of this over a troopy.

A 2023/2024 F150 Super Crew 4X4 with a comparable 3.3L 6 cylinder engine and a 5' bed weighs in the neighborhood of 4750 lbs and a little more for a 6'5" bed. Twenty seconds of searching brought up multiple reiterations of the same figures. A Grenadier starts at 5800 lbs. That's a 1000 lb difference. Facts don't lie and weight matters when it comes to fuel mileage. I purposely reduced the weight disparity in my other response to the 500 lb figure.

And since you brought it up...

Current 110 Defenders with a comparable 3.0L I6 engine have a curb weight of 5200 lbs but are also mild hybrid EVs with batteries and electric motors. That's a cheat against standalone ICE vehicles in terms of mileage and HP numbers. Apples to oranges.

The point of this thread is to compare the Grenadier to a new US 2024 Land Cruiser but we don't have weight or mileage numbers for those which is only one of your complaints against the Grenadier. Plus the LC250 only come in a hybrid version in the States which is not comparable anyway. Who cares about NDs or Ford trucks or RTI. What the Gren does do is pretty much match the weight and fuel mileage of a 200/300 series. TANSTAAFL.

You keep introducing straw man arguements like Grenadier versus a Troopie (rather than a 76), for example, which are anti-productive. Just about any true four wheel drive vehicle can do what the Grenadier does and some SUVs as well - for a while. There's no question about that. It has only acceptable articulation, modest ground clearance, and small tires. You should consider a different vehicle if you demand greater potential in those areas. The more important aim of Ineos has been to deliver reliability, durability and longevity if used hard for decades. It remains to be seen whether they've succeeded but the underpinnings are mostly there.
 

255/85

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Local time
2:32 AM
Joined
Mar 4, 2023
Messages
764
Reaction score
859
Location
Western U.S.
A V8 would be fantastic in the IG with 400 plus hp minimum. We are living in the golden age of horsepower. I mean, whoever said pop the hood and let’s look at your 4cyl?

You mean "Pop the hood. Let me see your hybrid".
 

Tazzieman

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
9:32 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
6,979
Reaction score
13,836
Location
Tasmania
A V8 would be fantastic in the IG with 400 plus hp minimum. We are living in the golden age of horsepower. I mean, whoever said pop the hood and let’s look at your 4cyl?
Whoever said pop the hood and show me your AMG 6.3 V8?
I'm afraid "this century" car engines are boring to look at .
 

YellowLab

Lifetime Supporter
Local time
10:32 AM
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,274
Location
Westlake Village, CA, USA
Whoever said pop the hood and show me your AMG 6.3 V8?
I'm afraid "this century" car engines are boring to look at .
Wow - What a great view of your engine - I'm so impressed by those massive....fans.

Screenshot 2024-02-14 at 10.38.27 AM.png
 
Back
Top Bottom