Diff breathers

[DenisM]

On a whim while under Gren. I loosened the diff breather on the rear diff housing and heard the "puff" as air / volatiles escaped. Not driven for 3 weeks/ 12, 500km.
Read the foregoing posts and went searching for a local supplier of diff breather kits with M10 x 1mm threads, 6mm push in fittings ... none of the usual pneumatic bits and pieces suppliers (eg.including Fittings Express) stocked them....solely 1/8" bsp!!

Finally discovered a local supplier who had the requisite parts in a kit which was significantly cheaper than trying to cobble a kit together from different suppliers!

Details: Air Parts Australia Pty Ltd, 51 Anning Ave, Golden Beach Qld 4551.

Shop

High-grade pneumatic components, industrial parts, air control valves, cylinders, air prep systems, durable fittings, reliable solutions, and advanced technology for commercial and industrial use

airparts.com.au

ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/airpartsaustralia
I spoke with Russel. He was very interested in the Grenadier and readily offered to swap out the usual 1/8" bsp fittings for the M10 x 1mm when I explained the requirements. I'm assuming he'll add Ineos Grenadier to his offerings. He ships worldwide.
His pricing is excellent compared to ARB for example.
Whole lot was A$55 plus express postage at cost. So $71 Inc GST. Ordered yesterday, was in my suburban Brisbane P.O. Box by 0730 this morning!

@TheDocAUS : another option for the "local" list

The photo shows the complete kit with straight fittings and includes push in barb adapters to connect to a flexible hose from the transfer case and ZF transmission breathers if one is so inclined. Excellent quality. Right-angle diff. fittings are available but the collective wisdom in this thread is that the straight fitting is preferable. The standard aluminium bracket is shown. It is available in stainless steel and laser etched labelling for additional cost. see the website

 

[Ex-defender driver]

On a whim while under Gren. I loosened the diff breather on the rear diff housing and heard the "puff" as air / volatiles escaped. Not driven for 3 weeks/ 12, 500km.
Read the foregoing posts and went searching for a local supplier of diff breather kits with M10 x 1mm threads, 6mm push in fittings ... none of the usual pneumatic bits and pieces suppliers (eg.including Fittings Express) stocked them....solely 1/8" bsp!!

Finally discovered a local supplier who had the requisite parts in a kit which was significantly cheaper than trying to cobble a kit together from different suppliers!

Details: Air Parts Australia Pty Ltd, 51 Anning Ave, Golden Beach Qld 4551.

Shop

High-grade pneumatic components, industrial parts, air control valves, cylinders, air prep systems, durable fittings, reliable solutions, and advanced technology for commercial and industrial use

airparts.com.au

ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/airpartsaustralia
I spoke with Russel. He was very interested in the Grenadier and readily offered to swap out the usual 1/8" bsp fittings for the M10 x 1mm when I explained the requirements. I'm assuming he'll add Ineos Grenadier to his offerings. He ships worldwide.
His pricing is excellent compared to ARB for example.
Whole lot was A$55 plus express postage at cost. So $71 Inc GST. Ordered yesterday, was in my suburban Brisbane P.O. Box by 0730 this morning!

@TheDocAUS : another option for the "local" list

The photo shows the complete kit with straight fittings and includes push in barb adapters to connect to a flexible hose from the transfer case and ZF transmission breathers if one is so inclined. Excellent quality. Right-angle diff. fittings are available but the collective wisdom in this thread is that the straight fitting is preferable. The standard aluminium bracket is shown. It is available in stainless steel and laser etched labelling for additional cost. see the website


View attachment 7887029

Thanks for this @DenisM - perfect timing for me was just looking at their website yesterday !! Cheers

 

[Clark Kent]

On a whim while under Gren. I loosened the diff breather on the rear diff housing and heard the "puff" as air / volatiles escaped. Not driven for 3 weeks/ 12, 500km.
Read the foregoing posts and went searching for a local supplier of diff breather kits with M10 x 1mm threads, 6mm push in fittings ... none of the usual pneumatic bits and pieces suppliers (eg.including Fittings Express) stocked them....solely 1/8" bsp!!

Finally discovered a local supplier who had the requisite parts in a kit which was significantly cheaper than trying to cobble a kit together from different suppliers!

Details: Air Parts Australia Pty Ltd, 51 Anning Ave, Golden Beach Qld 4551.

Shop

High-grade pneumatic components, industrial parts, air control valves, cylinders, air prep systems, durable fittings, reliable solutions, and advanced technology for commercial and industrial use

airparts.com.au

ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/airpartsaustralia
I spoke with Russel. He was very interested in the Grenadier and readily offered to swap out the usual 1/8" bsp fittings for the M10 x 1mm when I explained the requirements. I'm assuming he'll add Ineos Grenadier to his offerings. He ships worldwide.
His pricing is excellent compared to ARB for example.
Whole lot was A$55 plus express postage at cost. So $71 Inc GST. Ordered yesterday, was in my suburban Brisbane P.O. Box by 0730 this morning!

@TheDocAUS : another option for the "local" list

The photo shows the complete kit with straight fittings and includes push in barb adapters to connect to a flexible hose from the transfer case and ZF transmission breathers if one is so inclined. Excellent quality. Right-angle diff. fittings are available but the collective wisdom in this thread is that the straight fitting is preferable. The standard aluminium bracket is shown. It is available in stainless steel and laser etched labelling for additional cost. see the website


View attachment 7887029

Marvelous work @DenisM
Based on the chatter here I was going to pull an axle breather out today and see what air followed it. We know the Carraro breathers are designed to hold a positive pressure but not at the expense of pinion seals. Based on Agile's video I think the seals aren't necessarily failing. They're a two-piece seal that appear to be struggling to hold back the housing pressure so are weeping.

Edit: APA have already put an Ineos specific kit in their shop. Direct link.

 

[TheDocAUS]

On a whim while under Gren. I loosened the diff breather on the rear diff housing and heard the "puff" as air / volatiles escaped. Not driven for 3 weeks/ 12, 500km.
Read the foregoing posts and went searching for a local supplier of diff breather kits with M10 x 1mm threads, 6mm push in fittings ... none of the usual pneumatic bits and pieces suppliers (eg.including Fittings Express) stocked them....solely 1/8" bsp!!

Finally discovered a local supplier who had the requisite parts in a kit which was significantly cheaper than trying to cobble a kit together from different suppliers!

Details: Air Parts Australia Pty Ltd, 51 Anning Ave, Golden Beach Qld 4551.

Shop

High-grade pneumatic components, industrial parts, air control valves, cylinders, air prep systems, durable fittings, reliable solutions, and advanced technology for commercial and industrial use

airparts.com.au

ebay: https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/airpartsaustralia
I spoke with Russel. He was very interested in the Grenadier and readily offered to swap out the usual 1/8" bsp fittings for the M10 x 1mm when I explained the requirements. I'm assuming he'll add Ineos Grenadier to his offerings. He ships worldwide.
His pricing is excellent compared to ARB for example.
Whole lot was A$55 plus express postage at cost. So $71 Inc GST. Ordered yesterday, was in my suburban Brisbane P.O. Box by 0730 this morning!

@TheDocAUS : another option for the "local" list

The photo shows the complete kit with straight fittings and includes push in barb adapters to connect to a flexible hose from the transfer case and ZF transmission breathers if one is so inclined. Excellent quality. Right-angle diff. fittings are available but the collective wisdom in this thread is that the straight fitting is preferable. The standard aluminium bracket is shown. It is available in stainless steel and laser etched labelling for additional cost. see the website


View attachment 7887029

Looks like Air Parts Australia has added the INEOS kits, look here. A basic 4 Point diff breather (AUD75), a 4 point Pro version (AUD89) and a 6 point version (AUD85). The 4 point Pro uses an Black Anodised Aluminium Manifold, the other two kits use a stainless steel bracket.

The Basic Kit is more expensive than what DenisM paid, one reason is the kit has a slightly different selection of parts (eg 2 elbows).

Well done. I will add to the list over next few days.

 

[DenisM]

I tried the M10 x1mm push-in fitting. I used a 14mm long socket to remove the OEM breather and a 12mm socket to screw in the APA component. Fits like a glove. Has an O ring, so firm finger tight plus a dab of thread sealant and it won't go anywhere...

 

[TheDocAUS]

I tried the M10 x1mm push-in fitting. I used a 14mm long socket to remove the OEM breather and a 12mm socket to screw in the APA component. Fits like a glove. Has an O ring, so firm finger tight plus a dab of thread sealant and it won't go anywhere...

What thread sealant did you use?

 

[DenisM]

What thread sealant did you use?

I use a Loxeal Engineering Adhesive # 58-11 ---it's an anaerobic methacrylate ester-based high pressure thread sealant (I think in the same category as the "Loctite" range). Approx. A$16 for 50ml at the local hardware (also available at Bunnings) is far more cost effective than the equivalent Loctite/Permatex products. I've used it as a thread locker and aux. fuel tank thread sealant for the brass breathers and outlets. It's guaranteed diesel /oil proof.
(https://www.bunnings.com.au/loxeal-50ml-thread-sealant-58-11-anaerobic-adhesive_p4920450)

 

[Clark Kent]

Marvelous work @DenisM
Based on the chatter here I was going to pull an axle breather out today and see what air followed it. We know the Carraro breathers are designed to hold a positive pressure but not at the expense of pinion seals. Based on Agile's video I think the seals aren't necessarily failing. They're a two-piece seal that appear to be struggling to hold back the housing pressure so are weeping.

Edit: APA have already put an Ineos specific kit in their shop. Direct link.

Well well. @DenisM is an influencer

Received my 4 way breather kit today from APA. 36 hours from order to delivery. Not bad.
I'll probably only use the 2x diff breathers initially. The factory transfer case and transmission breathers are already high up behind the engine according to a previous post.

Couldn't resist another set of adjustable tyre deflators at A$36.32. Nice kit with a storage pouch containing a set of 5 alloy valve caps. I like to set my deflators at the desired pressure and not adjust them again except to check the accuracy occasionally. It's good to have a set at around 26-28 psi for off-road/dirt and another set at 15-18psi for soft sand. Just screw on set A or set B according to the terrain. No messing around with adjustments on the side of the track (after I have found my glasses).

And this 52 piece grab kit of rubber cushioned stainless P clips was a bargain at A$25.00. Can never have enough of those in my workshop. 1/4” (6.4mm) to 3/4” (19mm).

 

[AngusMacG]

So my diffs are leaking. I have pretty much only driven highways/surface roads. Only engaged the center diff for a brief off road ride around some land I have.

Dealer ordered new seals so will have those done soon. Thinking while he is under there just have him add a breather kit. Does that make sense? I’m semi handy and really dont have a set up yet to work on the truck myself. Also have no garage and since I moved it has snowed every weekend except for 1….

 

[parb]

If you're in Canada and don't have a garage then I would let the dealer do it. At least until summer..

 

[ECrider]

Fitted the front and rear differential breather pipes. Had a slight issue that the front push to fit cheap shite alloy sheared off in the diff at abt 2nm! Thank goodness it had an interior 5mm allen key fitting, as would have been very difficult drilling or stud removal exercise from the diff. The Arb fittings are better than those off the internet.

Hopefully the new pinion seals will not weep now.

Once the weather warms up will tidy up the rear differential breather pipes pipe a little. 3 degrees earlier and was very stiff.

Also now got the last of the Almont bash plates installed. The fuel tank one.

 

[grandsons]

Hello,
I'm not sure if those "breather kit" may extend drivetrain life. Because the drawbacks of those kits is the length of tubing running against the chassis, requiring a correct installation. And additionally the use of pneumatics components, not designed for automotive, may leads in early failure.

In the other hand vented plugs biggest threats remains the same with external causes due to various aerosol, salts, mud, water and maybe some direct impacts with stones as well as from inside with some oil build up.

IMHO, vented plugs are sacrificial components that need to be exchanged time to time depending on usage.

 

[Tom109]

Hello,
I'm not sure if those "breather kit" may extend drivetrain life. Because the drawbacks of those kits is the length of tubing running against the chassis, requiring a correct installation. And additionally the use of pneumatics components, not designed for automotive, may leads in early failure.

I have used the same components on Land Rovers for decades, never replacing any of the extended breather system. Same components used in the factory RRC EAS piping as well. The fittings I used then were also plastic/swivel PTC and still working fine.

 

[ECrider]

Hello,
I'm not sure if those "breather kit" may extend drivetrain life. Because the drawbacks of those kits is the length of tubing running against the chassis, requiring a correct installation. And additionally the use of pneumatics components, not designed for automotive, may leads in early failure.

In the other hand vented plugs biggest threats remains the same with external causes due to various aerosol, salts, mud, water and maybe some direct impacts with stones as well as from inside with some oil build up.

IMHO, vented plugs are sacrificial components that need to be exchanged time to time depending on usage.

My thoughts;

Not sure anything beyond a simple tube is required on an axle or trans or tcase. The temps are not extreme and the pressure is minimal as long as it's 'neutral'.

Granted maybe if oil blocks the tube then you end up with a blocked breather but I'm confident that that is unlikely and with regular blows with an airline you can clear any blockages.

Much prefer that than the OEM version which to me seems flawed and has already failed me.

 

[NQ94]

Hello,
I'm not sure if those "breather kit" may extend drivetrain life. Because the drawbacks of those kits is the length of tubing running against the chassis, requiring a correct installation. And additionally the use of pneumatics components, not designed for automotive, may leads in early failure.

In the other hand vented plugs biggest threats remains the same with external causes due to various aerosol, salts, mud, water and maybe some direct impacts with stones as well as from inside with some oil build up.

IMHO, vented plugs are sacrificial components that need to be exchanged time to time depending on usage.

Have a look at buses, vocational trucks like water trucks, street sweepers etc those same industrial pneumatic fittings and nylon hoses are used everywhere under the trucks with few issues, a few breather pipes on a 4wd is not a problem.

 

[grandsons]

Have a look at buses, vocational trucks like water trucks, street sweepers etc those same industrial pneumatic fittings and nylon hoses are used everywhere under the trucks with few issues, a few breather pipes on a 4wd is not a problem.

We should be focus on application, which is balance and control of the internal pressure of a mechanism with an oil-bath system. In one hand many millions of vented plugs installed with few usual defects. In the other hand hardcore snorkel way of running tubes above the water fording line with unknown defect rate (which looks perfect).

Usually 4WD cars manufacturer use valve type breathers. They are like a valve because when the axle is submerged, the pressure will reach many time the atmospheric pressure and water maybe sucked in. So the valve type breather let the over pressure due to heat escape, but they are not balancing pressure at all.

Some IG seems to have a pressure build problem. But IG axle should be designed to run with a remaining pressure without oil dripping or seals early failure, which may lead to costly repair.

When modifying the axle venting system, please pay attention that venting permanently will create a way to exchange air with the environment. It's the ingress of dust particule and aerosol that can harm lubricants and erode critical metal parts. The "breathing" air volume maybe more considerable as thought and more polluted as expected.

 

[NQ94]

We should be focus on application, which is balance and control of the internal pressure of a mechanism with an oil-bath system. In one hand many millions of vented plugs installed with few usual defects. In the other hand hardcore snorkel way of running tubes above the water fording line with unknown defect rate (which looks perfect).

Usually 4WD cars manufacturer use valve type breathers. They are like a valve because when the axle is submerged, the pressure will reach many time the atmospheric pressure and water maybe sucked in. So the valve type breather let the over pressure due to heat escape, but they are not balancing pressure at all.

Some IG seems to have a pressure build problem. But IG axle should be designed to run with a remaining pressure without oil dripping or seals early failure, which may lead to costly repair.

When modifying the axle venting system, please pay attention that venting permanently will create a way to exchange air with the environment. It's the ingress of dust particule and aerosol that can harm lubricants and erode critical metal parts. The "breathing" air volume maybe more considerable as thought and more polluted as expected.

OEM engineers build to a price and general anticipated operating conditions. In some environments the OEMs miss the mark to keep equipment reliable so modifications are needed to increase reliability and durability of a vehicle. The Ineos axle breather design is a compromise and not really that good for the vehicles intended purpose.
I have never had an issue installing nylon hose and quick connect fittings onto trucks, 4wds and machinery axles. We use it to alleviate water into axles an transmissions especially in wet season. We are currently having the wettest season in years in north QLD. Hot axles into cool water like the creek crossings cause the axles to cool quickly pulling a partial vacuum and water into the axles through the pinion and hub seals contaminating oil. The OEM breathers on axles are buried in heavy mud/clay build up and are useless unless there are hose extensions.
Depending on design most car and truck axles will be lucky to get to 2 to 5 psi pressure whereas some machinery axles will get to higher pressures in the wheel end cavities for the steel on steel hub seals to seal correctly but even they are vented through a filter with no valves to atmosphere. The seals on axles like Ineos uses are designed to allow pressure behind them from the oil cavity, that is what the spring in the back of the seal assists with and dynamic seals, like a pinion seal work better with some pressure. Most seals on axles are a one way seal and do not seal as well from external pressure or suddenly being put into vacuum like what happens when a hot oil or grease filled compartment is quickly cooled.

 

[parb]

OEM engineers build to a price and general anticipated operating conditions. In some environments the OEMs miss the mark to keep equipment reliable so modifications are needed to increase reliability and durability of a vehicle.

Ineos is challenged in that they have to make tradeoffs based on a global optimization for the vehicle cost for non-safety related components. Global optimization, especially when involving a cost-benefit analysis always becomes some form of tradeoff that not everyone will benefit from.

Local optimization for my specific vehicle and knowledge about my usage is far more straight forward since I know the details of the vehicles usage and can define local minima and maxima with far higher precision. It is something you and i can do easily but its a mistake think local minima/maxima transfer directly to a global minima/maxima (eg a fleet).

Based on knowledge of my environment and intended usage i picked diff breathers with raised air pressure exhanges based on knowledge that i will cross water.

For what it is worth, I used to spend a lot of time in this field when i worked in automotive. Optimizing across the severity and probability dimensions of faults is always a complex analysis. The basic math of this class of optimization techniques is outlined here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_optimization

 

[grandsons]

Based on knowledge of my environment and intended usage i picked diff breathers with raised air pressure exhanges based on knowledge that i will cross water.

Hello,
Pressurized axles suffer from slight designs changes.

For example, the lip of the sealing device is now an annular radially expanding lobe which is designed to withstand internal "hot" pressure variations, limited by a valving system. That's "looks" like the opposite of a vented 1950 axle system, where the pressure is coming form outside when crossing water. This tinny evolution will affect the way of the sealing lip is oiled. The lip is now "force" wetted, meaning the oil is pushed outside. When observing the interface between the seal and the casing, we may notice some sort of brightness indicating the presence of oil. Those tinny changes increase the sealing properties, reducing wear thus improving durability too.

By "inverting" the working pressure, the defects may not be "silent" anymore. If a seal fails, oil leakage occurs visibly, making it easier to detect and repair. The chance to have an accidental water ingress when submerged is then reduced because the working pressure is always higher as the depth pressure.

Axles are not subject to oil contamination form sucked dust or solvants anymore, less oil change, less gear wear.

The drawback of pressurized axle is a clogged/rusted/dead valve that will create excessive pressure, potentially stressing seals beyond their limits. At 10USD each I consider them as a consumable, like a valve tire, each year a new one.

The good thing is enthusiasts still use breathers at their own risks.