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Americas Are you not getting the front or rear diff and why?

Hannes01

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I do get them because

- you can not add them later (but only change axles afaik)
- if I once want to or have to sell my car the are a strong selling point
- I want to drive where I want and like to have a safety backup
- within the rough package they are a bargain
First 3 points +1
 

DCPU

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but the lockers are one of the few items that can’t be added later.
Is there a clear explanation why? Odd Eaton have such a huge aftermarket but there's something special about Carraro axles...
 

AnD3rew

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Depends on your confidence in your skill and possibly your fitness. Back in the day, rugged adventurers conquered the world in series land rovers with just a centre diff lock, no traction control, no nothing, they also did a lot of physical work, track building and digging and hauling etc, and those vehicles were also much lighter. But vehicle’s have gotten much heavier and fatter, like many of us (speaking mostly of myself here) advanced traction control systems do a lot to compensate without diff locks, my Discovery 3 went crazy places and I didn’t have the optional rear locker, but it’s multi program electronic systems and adjustable height air suspension was pretty incredible. The Grenadier is very heavy, it has traction control but it is on the surface fairly basic single mode, we don’t have a huge amount of experience with it, the clearance height is also not bad for a stock vehicle but it isn’t massive. The beam axles and articulation is a plus and will make up for some of that. And we have all gotten soft (I’m sure there are exceptions) but most of us are very unused to toiling away with a shovel in the dusty bush wearing only a pair of shorts, boots and a shirt wrapped around our heads in 40° C. So I suspect there may be times when when we would trade our left nuts for a diff locker when hours from civilisation and face with a rutted muddy section of track up a steep hill between us and a cold beer. Of course if you are just doing school drop offs and the ocassional gravel road and a run up the beach once a year on Summer school holidays you will probably be fine without one.
 

DCPU

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It’s something with the axles I think. It is not easy just to swap the diff against another one with locks they told me. Maybe different sizes then usually used?
Eaton locks fit within the differential envelope, the only thing that might be a concern is drilling the axle housing for the wires to run through; but that's something every aftermarket diff lock fitter does day in day out.

Perhaps a tad more difficult as the diff nose/casing itself is not bolted onto the axle housing and can't be removed as a single unit and worked on a bench.
 

Shaky

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Depends on your confidence in your skill and possibly your fitness. Back in the day, rugged adventurers conquered the world in series land rovers with just a centre diff lock, no traction control, no nothing, they also did a lot of physical work, track building and digging and hauling etc, and those vehicles were also much lighter. But vehicle’s have gotten much heavier and fatter, like many of us (speaking mostly of myself here) advanced traction control systems do a lot to compensate without diff locks, my Discovery 3 went crazy places and I didn’t have the optional rear locker, but it’s multi program electronic systems and adjustable height air suspension was pretty incredible. The Grenadier is very heavy, it has traction control but it is on the surface fairly basic single mode, we don’t have a huge amount of experience with it, the clearance height is also not bad for a stock vehicle but it isn’t massive. The beam axles and articulation is a plus and will make up for some of that. And we have all gotten soft (I’m sure there are exceptions) but most of us are very unused to toiling away with a shovel in the dusty bush wearing only a pair of shorts, boots and a shirt wrapped around our heads in 40° C. So I suspect there may be times when when we would trade our left nuts for a diff locker when hours from civilisation and face with a rutted muddy section of track up a steep hill between us and a cold beer. Of course if you are just doing school drop offs and the ocassional gravel road and a run up the beach once a year on Summer school holidays you will probably be fine without one.


I think there is one thing you have got wrong in that. You say most of us have probably got too soft and unfit. Judging by the Grenadiers owners age thread, you should have said that most of the IG owners are too old to be digging out and filling in tracks.

For some of us owners it will be a 4x4 zimmer frame in not too many years time. 😃

In my case I won’t need them and wasn’t going to option them as an extra but when the models were released it was was an easy choice, the Trialmaster model was the one for me.

Most owners won’t probably need them but will almost certainly want them, and it will be a selling point in the used market, which seems to be growing day by day in the UK already.
 

MurphyMurph

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My plan was to keep the spec as basic as possible however, by time of ordering I had optioned just about everything bar the winch. I kept thinking “how much for safari windows aftermarket? How much for leather aftermarket? Will I regret not having saddle leather items?”. Rough pack, smooth pack, the list went on!!
Haha! That’s probably what will happens with me in a couple weeks when US orders open up. I’ve never ordered a vehicle with options ticked, just bought what was on the lot with the trim package it had and any options included. So for me, as long as I can keep it within my loving wife’s approved range, I’ll probably settle on a well optioned build.
 

grenadierboy

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Depends on your confidence in your skill and possibly your fitness. Back in the day, rugged adventurers conquered the world in series land rovers with just a centre diff lock, no traction control, no nothing, they also did a lot of physical work, track building and digging and hauling etc, and those vehicles were also much lighter. But vehicle’s have gotten much heavier and fatter, like many of us (speaking mostly of myself here) advanced traction control systems do a lot to compensate without diff locks, my Discovery 3 went crazy places and I didn’t have the optional rear locker, but it’s multi program electronic systems and adjustable height air suspension was pretty incredible. The Grenadier is very heavy, it has traction control but it is on the surface fairly basic single mode, we don’t have a huge amount of experience with it, the clearance height is also not bad for a stock vehicle but it isn’t massive. The beam axles and articulation is a plus and will make up for some of that. And we have all gotten soft (I’m sure there are exceptions) but most of us are very unused to toiling away with a shovel in the dusty bush wearing only a pair of shorts, boots and a shirt wrapped around our heads in 40° C. So I suspect there may be times when when we would trade our left nuts for a diff locker when hours from civilisation and face with a rutted muddy section of track up a steep hill between us and a cold beer. Of course if you are just doing school drop offs and the ocassional gravel road and a run up the beach once a year on Summer school holidays you will probably be fine without one.
Agree. with your points Andrew. No school drop offs for me but also no rock hopping either - somewhere in the middle.

My experience off road has been occasionally using rear lockers but almost never front locker.

And anyway the price of the rough pack was so attractive - a no brainer
 

AnD3rew

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Agree. with your points Andrew. No school drop offs for me but also no rock hopping either - somewhere in the middle.

My experience off road has been occasionally using rear lockers but almost never front locker.

And anyway the price of the rough pack was so attractive - a no brainer
Same, I may never need mine, I am not a rock hopper, but I do like exploring bush tracks and sometimes you come across a section you weren’t expecting where it gets knarly, I was always going to get the a Trialmaster and the diff locks come with it, also added the winch because I do do solo trips and one 3rd party commercial offroad recovery could easily cost the price of the winch and diff lockers alone. I know someone who paid more than $20k for a recovery on the Canning stock route. (That was a mechanical breakdown to be fair not a bogging, but you get the point.)
 

Davman

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I only option something if it fits into at least one of these three categories:. 1) Shiny 2) Pointy 3) Trimmed with fur. I decided to classify front and rear diffs as 1 and 2. I may have taken some liberties.
Well it will have pointy and shiny bits inside it, you just cannot see them.
So your reasoning is sound in my book.
 
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ECrider

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could also park on next door's cat and you have cleared all 3) requisites.
 

Tazzieman

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It's like rock climbing boots...it opens the door to stuff like...rock climbing.
And when digging and winching cuts into enjoyment time , unless you and your partner/friends enjoy that side of things (i.e. it's a sport) then the diff locks will get you in without histrionics.
The terrain in my state is so varied that in an hour you can go from muddy bogholes to washed out rocky trails to deep sandy beaches .
Be prepared for what you might encounter!
 

grenadierguy

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Why can't they be upgraded later? Differential gears and lockers can be added quite easily with the appropriate shop or tools (just regeared my 2020 Tacoma, had the option to add a front locker).
How long are you willing to wait to get an aftermarket solution and wire it in non OEM?
 

grenadierguy

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Haha! That’s probably what will happens with me in a couple weeks when US orders open up. I’ve never ordered a vehicle with options ticked, just bought what was on the lot with the trim package it had and any options included. So for me, as long as I can keep it within my loving wife’s approved range, I’ll probably settle on a well optioned build.
It sounds like I wrote this. 🙂
 

bemax

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I drove my Defender the first years only with center diff lock and traction control. It worked fine but it stressed the car on difficult tracks. When I finally had the true track torque sensitive automatic locks (rear and front) I was astonished how different the drive became. Sections with hard wheel spin and high rpm changed to smooth driving more or less on idle speed.
It will never be the same with 100 % locks as they do not work without knowing they work, but it is a no brainer to me as well. And if it is only to safe the car from stress while trying to overcome some obstacles with hard working tc!
 

James

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We are all waiting to hear on the pricing this week. One of the biggest price jumps I imagine will be having the option for the front and rear diff or the rough pack. I test drove the IG in New York a couple of weeks ago. I was in a field master without the front and back lockers. We were in Low gear. It was muddy as all hell and we went over everything with the aired down KO2 Tires. After that drive I really wondered if I would really need it cause I would really never drive over anything that extreme or in the rarest cases. Standard is the center lock and is that enough for the majority of people? Yes its always nice to have the peace of mind and be capable for those situations. But in the event that it comes down to trying to lower costs. Love to hear all your thoughts and opinions. I understand its based on all our goals with the vehicle and use case.
Sounds like you can save the money.
defenders never had them standard, built their reputation without, as did land cruiser.s and almost every serious overland workhorse. If you wont be doing things that are quite a lot more intense than the trial day with ineos, the you really dont need them. Thats nothing to feel bad about- vast majority of owners (not us early super-keen adopters) will never test the limits of capability without lockers.

also, ineos confirmed you will be able to fit lockers afterwards. Itll just cost a fair bit more.
or, there might be after market ones. Maybe.

but, it sounds like you know your purpose, you know your comfort level with challenging offroad, so absolutely feel confident buying only what you need. we all respect the simple minimum approach (and the costs add up!)
 
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TLDR: Yes to lockers.

Lets be honest, if I was buying this truck based on need, I would keep the paid for, reliable Xterra. For me, this is strictly a once-in-a-lifetime "want" purchase. And I want lockers. I want everything, but a lot of things will be decided by cost when the US order books open tomorrow.

But not lockers. Most years I invent reasons to use the rear locker on my current truck, but last year I had an opportunity given to me. Going to a hike, and the trailhead had a "lower" and "upper" parking option. The "upper" required navigating a steep, loose soil, switchback AND groups of hikers, dogs and kids who needed to park at the lower. Anyone who's been to Colorado during wildflower season will know how crowded the trailheads are.

I hate to intrude on other peoples good times, and considered parking at the bottom, but decided I would rather skip the half mile of dirt road hiking, in favor of a longer trail hike. So, 4lo, 1st gear, rear diff locked, and I was able to slowly and quietly drive my way up the path without wheel spin, excessive engine noise or speed. Hopefully I didn't annoy too many people. In all honesty the traction control would have got me up the path in 2wheel drive, but by using all the tools at my disposal, I was able to do it in a much more controlled fashion.

At least that's what I tell myself. I've spec'd out both a Trialmaster and a Fieldmaster, but somehow they end up the same, because I just click "add" to everything. I'm looking forward to doing it for real, but the diff locks and Safari windows are staying in the "yes" column, everything else is negotiable.
 

REOhio

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How much weight do you imagine the lockers will add? I truly have no idea what the load expense of these things are.
 
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