Any contracts signed in 2023?

[DaveB]

Thanks, do you know what the issue is, this seems to have rumbled on for a long time with “promised” dates not being adhered to?

No firm idea sorry

 

[DaveB]

Thanks Dave, but, "as you are perhaps (probably?) the whistleblower" to Ineos, please tell them to be honest and clear.
In the past, on the Belgian Railways, when you were sitting in a train who had to stop for an (for the crew) unknown reason, they didn't communicate anything to the passengers as long as they had no information. One I sat on a train for more than an hour, and then suddenly the train continued it's trip! Very frustrating!

Now at least, they tell us: "we have to stop for a red light and we don't know why". That's better than nothing.

But I can't believe Ineos can't give an explanation, even if the delays are their own fault. Most "humans" accept mistakes. They don't accept silence, lies, blaming the other, ...

I have told them that

 

[beanohallett]

Yep same here, couldn’t have put it better myself.

same here exactly the same story !

 

[beanohallett]

Yep same here, couldn’t have put it better myself.

exactly the same, wait wait wait.
Nice jeep ive a '42 willys whats yours

 

[marko]

exactly the same, wait wait wait.
Nice jeep ive a '42 willys whats yours

Thanks she’s a ‘42 GPW

 

[grenadierboy]

There has been a “hold fire/STOP” on sending contracts out for the moment.



The central team and production plant is working out a plan to address the situation as we speak to see exactly what can be produced ad shipped.


We’ll have a clearer idea earlier next week.



In addition to this there will be a direct communication sent to customers next week so they are clear on the situation.

Dave - I am not massively concerned about the constant contract delays because sending them out and getting them signed shouldn't directly impact the date of production (I mean originally there was a 60 day period before production anyway right?).

I assumed the contract delay is due to various legal issues etc. that needed to be addressed.

My concern is growing that the whole contract issuing issue could be more emblematic of a larger picture - that the whole show is very bespoke and either under resourced, rather disjointed or not working as efficiently as we assumed it would be.

But regardless - why on earth, (over the past 8 weeks) can't INEOS get their "ducks in a row" on this; why has INEOS customer services and agent been consistently telling customers that contracts will be issued and then the day/time comes & head office can't deliver them, over and over again!!

 

[Jean Mercier]

Dave - I am not massively concerned about the constant contract delays because sending them out and getting them signed shouldn't directly impact the date of production (I mean originally there was a 60 day period before production anyway right?).

I assumed the contract delay is due to various legal issues etc. that needed to be addressed.

My concern is growing that the whole contract issuing issue could be more emblematic of a larger picture - that the whole show is very bespoke and either under resourced, rather disjointed or not working as efficiently as we assumed it would be.

But regardless - why on earth, (over the past 8 weeks) can't INEOS get their "ducks in a row" on this; why has INEOS customer services and agent been consistently telling customers that contracts will be issued and then the day/time comes & head office can't deliver them, over and over again!!

Angry not on you of course, ... I understand completely your point

 

[DaveB]

Dave - I am not massively concerned about the constant contract delays because sending them out and getting them signed shouldn't directly impact the date of production (I mean originally there was a 60 day period before production anyway right?).

I assumed the contract delay is due to various legal issues etc. that needed to be addressed.

My concern is growing that the whole contract issuing issue could be more emblematic of a larger picture - that the whole show is very bespoke and either under resourced, rather disjointed or not working as efficiently as we assumed it would be.

But regardless - why on earth, (over the past 8 weeks) can't INEOS get their "ducks in a row" on this; why has INEOS customer services and agent been consistently telling customers that contracts will be issued and then the day/time comes & head office can't deliver them, over and over again!!

Yes it is extremely disappointing.
Normally the car manufacturer or importer creates a local contract to meet that country or regions laws.
They only have to satisfy one set of rules
Ineos is trying to write a global contract and possibly then adapt it to meet all countries needs.
And I assume do this in the relevant languages.
That is a huge and I don't think achievable task.
Every time there is a change they would need to see how it impacts every country and if it translates corrrectly.

 

[grenadierboy]

Agree Dave. - complex issue to plan, execute and maintain going forward
However, I would also think that INEOS has a large internal legal dept. and, anyway, there is a wide selection of international law firms, with automotive practices, that would eat this challenge for breakfast.

 

[Nocrays]

I have told them that

Perfect.

An informed group is far more content and builds trust.

 

[beanohallett]

Im assuming most have had the e mail from Ineos ^0 30 day conformation of build specification with the final PDF version of their order, I received that in November with an e mail shortly after saying "your grenadier is heading for production"

 

[Davman]

Errr. -Hell no

 

[marko]

Im assuming most have had the e mail from Ineos ^0 30 day conformation of build specification with the final PDF version of their order, I received that in November with an e mail shortly after saying "your grenadier is heading for production"

Nope, not received anything.

 

[grenadierboy]

Im assuming most have had the e mail from Ineos ^0 30 day conformation of build specification with the final PDF version of their order, I received that in November with an e mail shortly after saying "your grenadier is heading for production"

No.

In November I requested a few changes.

Agent sent an email confirming the changes were accepted, attached an updated pdf configuration & requested me to confirm as final.

I confirmed via email and that locked in my order.

Then agent confirmed build month.

 

[tartan shepherd]

Yes it is extremely disappointing.
Normally the car manufacturer or importer creates a local contract to meet that country or regions laws.
They only have to satisfy one set of rules
Ineos is trying to write a global contract and possibly then adapt it to meet all countries needs.
And I assume do this in the relevant languages.
That is a huge and I don't think achievable task.
Every time there is a change they would need to see how it impacts every country and if it translates corrrectly.

I would not be surprised if the change of CEO has impacted these delays.
Probably undertaking a full review of processes and personnel, and likely uncovering a few things that require changing. Teams who innovate and create are not always optimal for running operations on a day to day ‘steady state’ basis.

 

[bemax]

I would not be surprised if the change of CEO has impacted these delays.
Probably undertaking a full review of processes and personnel, and likely uncovering a few things that require changing. Teams who innovate and create are not always optimal for running operations on a day to day ‘steady state’ basis.

This could of course be the case.

 

[JohnHeagney]

Im assuming most have had the e mail from Ineos ^0 30 day conformation of build specification with the final PDF version of their order, I received that in November with an e mail shortly after saying "your grenadier is heading for production"

Not to me either!

 

[Jean Mercier]

I would not be surprised if the change of CEO has impacted these delays.

I don't think so! Way too early!

 

[To]

Im assuming most have had the e mail from Ineos ^0 30 day conformation of build specification with the final PDF version of their order, I received that in November with an e mail shortly after saying "your grenadier is heading for production"

Same here. As of 09.01.2023 my car is "In production". Email from Ineos and change in my account.

 

[DCPU]

To me all this talk of paperwork is a side issue. Important yes, but I'd be very surprised if it is slowing vehicles being built and dispatched to agents (or now it seems a larger group of importers and dealers).

I have a signed contract (which is incorrect in a number of ways), a chassis number (VIN) but no online indication that the vehicle is in production. I suspect it's passed through production and is awaiting dispatch (possibly after the software fix/update talked about elsewhere).

Once the first vehicles reach the agents, owners will view them, pay the outstanding balances and sign the release/delivery paperwork. Who will then care about these contracts? These contracts serve no purpose other than to lock in owners financially and de-risk Ineos.

Until Ineos can get their systems sorted, then the risk on building bespoke vehicles falls back on them. That's not much of a risk at the current point in their manufacturing cycle.

The main show is watching customer vehicles get delivered.

We know there are some in Switzerland (awaiting software fix), UK ones didn't make the boat on the 20th but might be released for one before or around 28th January.; and similarly for the Oz ones.