Alternator & Aux Battery

[Eric]

That solves the battery debate. Definitely not AGM or GELL Batteries but EFB enhanced flooded battery

Hmm on a large engine vehicle, built for purpose, I'd have thought they would go for AGM. Will be interesting to see if it is still EFB on the non auxiliary battery vehicle.

 

[Halliwell Jones Chester]

Just spoke to aftersales at INEOS and below is the response.

The alternator output is rated at 250Amps.

The vehicle battery​

The battery that powers the Grenadier is a 105Ah EFB Moll battery.
It works as a traditional 12 Volt system with an alternator charging the battery when required.
The Auxiliary battery that is used when optioned is identical to the main vehicle battery and will be wired in parallel to insure that it stays a 12 volt circuit.

EFB - Enhanced Flooded Battery. These batteries are sealed and are not able to be opened to test cells.

The Battery is located in the same position on all variants. Ether under the second row seating or load space floor on the 2 seat utility wagon. Both the seating and floor can be easily lifted up to gain access if required with no need for any tools "the auxiliary battery is located on the opposite side"

 

[globalgregors]

Thank you for the dimensions. Do you thing the space would suit and fit an air compressor?

Yes, no problem presuming you are lifting the seat to connect the air line, and operate it as such.
Will effect the duty cycle if you operate a single cylinder compressor in the closed space (eg it’ll get hot and shut off repeatedly).
Commonly fit dual compressors behind panels, see photos in earlier thread… noting these achieve a higher duty cycle by a) including cooling; and b) toggling between cylinders as one gets hot.
Not enough room for a twin beneath the seat however.

 

[DCPU]

Just spoke to aftersales at INEOS and below is the response.

The alternator output is rated at 250Amps.

The vehicle battery​

The battery that powers the Grenadier is a 105Ah EFB Moll battery.
It works as a traditional 12 Volt system with an alternator charging the battery when required.
The Auxiliary battery that is used when optioned is identical to the main vehicle battery and will be wired in parallel to insure that it stays a 12 volt circuit.

EFB - Enhanced Flooded Battery. These batteries are sealed and are not able to be opened to test cells.

The Battery is located in the same position on all variants. Ether under the second row seating or load space floor on the 2 seat utility wagon. Both the seating and floor can be easily lifted up to gain access if required with no need for any tools "the auxiliary battery is located on the opposite side"

Good to see that they are all reading off the same script ~ see post #34.

These batteries appear to be vented and being "wet" seem to employ a different definition of "sealed" to that of say an AGM.

Also hard to call the whole underseat area watertight if there's a vent tube running through a hole in the floor.

 

[Logsplitter]

I’m sure they could seal around a pipe easily enough with a bulkhead fitting

 

[bigleonski]

Yep, the second battery (along with the RAI) are the two things not build for my purpose that I would have liked to delete and install a better set up.

 

[Davman]

Yep, the second battery (along with the RAI) are the two things not build for my purpose that I would have liked to delete and install a better set up.

I have already bought my 100ah Lifep04 battery and Redarc Bcdc ready to slot into my Fieldmaster that doesn’t come with the RAI.

 

[DaveB]

Yep, the second battery (along with the RAI) are the two things not build for my purpose that I would have liked to delete and install a better set up.

So why did you choose them?
It is easy to start with the Station Wagon and spec it up to what you want

 

[bigleonski]

So why did you choose them?
It is easy to start with the Station Wagon and spec it up to what you want

But then it isn’t a trialmaster is it.
I’ll re-engineer what I need given the compromise.
Seal the RAI better and swap out / re-design the battery system and it’s all good.
I can always use a spare battery somewhere.

And a like for like cost comparison had the trialmaster about $750 in front which meant I almost got one of them for free.

 

[Logsplitter]

Trialmaster is only a name after all

 

[DaveB]

But then it isn’t a trialmaster is it.
I’ll re-engineer what I need given the compromise.
Seal the RAI better and swap out / re-design the battery system and it’s all good.
I can always use a spare battery somewhere.

And a like for like cost comparison had the trialmaster about $750 in front which meant I almost got one of them for free.

Pricing must be very different now.
I configured to the same spec from Wagon, Trial & Field and the difference was $400

 

[Logsplitter]

Interesting comparison between AGM and EFB batteries

EFB vs. AGM: What Will Power our Cars in the Future?

While AGM batteries have handled the demands of modern automobiles, EFB technology surpasses AGM in critical areas such as battery life and heat tolerance.

www.stryten.com

 

[AnD3rew]

Interesting comparison between AGM and EFB batteries

EFB vs. AGM: What Will Power our Cars in the Future?

While AGM batteries have handled the demands of modern automobiles, EFB technology surpasses AGM in critical areas such as battery life and heat tolerance.

www.stryten.com

Very interesting. Thanks for that. Wonder if INEOS is doing anything to maintain the batteries of vehicles that are sitting waiting for quality tests and then spending 2-3 months on a boat to Australia. I have uad a couple of new cars have batteries fail fairly soon after delivery and the time sitting pre delivery has been blamed for this by some.

 

[bigleonski]

Interesting comparison between AGM and EFB batteries

EFB vs. AGM: What Will Power our Cars in the Future?

While AGM batteries have handled the demands of modern automobiles, EFB technology surpasses AGM in critical areas such as battery life and heat tolerance.

www.stryten.com

Good read. Compared well to AGM. For me it will be about how the aux battery is isolated so the starter isn’t compromised by a fridge or use of an inverter. If the system can manage that then all good, and I’ll either put another lithium in the system somewhere or wait till the EFB dies and replace it with a bigger lithium in due course. A 105a is big enough on a long trip as it gets charged during the daily drive, it’s just the 4-5 days in one spot where you need more oomph. A solar blanket is a reasonable fix but not as good as having another 105 in case the weather turns shit.
But starter isolation is the big thing for me.


To be honest I wish the set up was well communicated by Ineos up front so an informed decision on purchase could be made or alternative solutions arranged before purchase.

 

[globalgregors]

Good read. Compared well to AGM. For me it will be about how the aux battery is isolated so the starter isn’t compromised by a fridge or use of an inverter. If the system can manage that then all good, and I’ll either put another lithium in the system somewhere or wait till the EFB dies and replace it with a bigger lithium in due course. A 105a is big enough on a long trip as it gets charged during the daily drive, it’s just the 4-5 days in one spot where you need more oomph. A solar blanket is a reasonable fix but not as good as having another 105 in case the weather turns shit.
But starter isolation is the big thing for me.

 

[DenisM]

Good read. Compared well to AGM. For me it will be about how the aux battery is isolated so the starter isn’t compromised by a fridge or use of an inverter. If the system can manage that then all good, and I’ll either put another lithium in the system somewhere or wait till the EFB dies and replace it with a bigger lithium in due course. A 105a is big enough on a long trip as it gets charged during the daily drive, it’s just the 4-5 days in one spot where you need more oomph. A solar blanket is a reasonable fix but not as good as having another 105 in case the weather turns shit.
But starter isolation is the big thing for me.


To be honest I wish the set up was well communicated by Ineos up front so an informed decision on purchase could be made or alternative solutions arranged before purchase.

The aux. battery as supplied also provides redundancy to the starter battery in the event of a fail of the main battery. A LiFePO4 won't necessarily provide that redundancy because they're not designed as a starter battery... unless there's some compromise using the Lithium to partly charge the starter battery e.g. jumper leads and let them sit for and hour or so in the hope that enough juice will flow to the EFB. In the illustrated "Smartpass" setup Globalgregors has provided, one could connect the fridge to the aux. direct so that there was no dual current draw from both batteries. In fact, I'll be bypassing the second battery altogether and powering the fridge from a portable Li setup...

 

[Znarfgh]

If you have a dead ranking battery you can use a LiFePO4 battery to get the engine started. They are designed as a deep cycle battery but can be used in an emergency to start the vehicle. You can buy cranking/deep cycle LiFePO4 batteries these days that can also go under bonnet.

 

[OGrid]

The free space next to the auxiliary battery has about these dimensions (16 cm being the free height). It is approximative because of the irregular shape and protrusions.

I don't think the battery compartment is watertight, but the sensible parts are sufficiently above wading height.

View attachment 7804099

I’ve been concerned about possible water ingress into the battery bays since I saw the PTO2. I.e Child drops large coke onto seat and the liquid entered from above.

I was told the area would be sealed in prod vehicles. From the pic the battery area does not appear to be sealed from ‘above’.

Yes there is a seat, but the seat pivots forward making a great avenue for liquid to enter from the back of the seat.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

It'd be nice to have a dual alternator option. It's kept me from getting stranded in my Duramax before. Ideal if you find yourself in the middle of nowhere a lot or need your vehicle daily.

 

[Steve.B]

So why did you choose them?
It is easy to start with the Station Wagon and spec it up to what you want

Dave,
In my case my wife had already picked out the Trialmaster jacket she wanted, so I had no choice but I am not complaining.