2024 ADAS Issue and Work Around (USA)

[Daemen 2.0]

Spoke with Ineos today. The ADAS is either on or off - no ability to set parameters, such as alert if 10 mph over speed limit (something I wouldn't mind), if you want to deactivate, must do so EVERY time you start vehicle; considered safety measure so no plans too change current programming.

This is so ridiculous! Forcing safety measures as if taking care of children. Have it as an option for those who want it. Having it beep at 1 mile over the limit is just dumb.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Seems ridiculous to me. How many of us would not have bought it due to not having a 5 star safety rating due to annoying nannies not installed or being able to turn off? And just how did we all make it to our age with out them?

I think we are all better drivers for not having "electronic nannies" in the years gone by!

 

[Catpaw4x4]

I love the cup holders on mine.
But the "clicking" and "pre-flight" checklist of turning everything off each time is annoying.
One heck of performance off-road though ... I will give it that so far.

I'm thinking those few seconds to turn things off is good engine warm up time ?

 

[Catpaw4x4]

I disagree. The "lifestylers" mostly backed out from the purchase, commenting to the tune "for $[insert a number], it has to have more features. My [insert the make/model of "lifestyle" POS] is equipped better."
I suspect their wives had a lot to say in the decision (regardless of the gender of the "lifestyle buyer"), but they will never admit to that.

I love my bare basic SE 96 5 sp manual Disco. Looked at swapping out for 97 model but was turned off by the walnut dash trim - just didn't fit the vehicle. Never looked back! All the current market upper end SUVs just seem like "look but don't touch". Latest commercial is "SPACE" by Acura (?) for their MDX (?) model

This is very, very good. I think I fall right into that definition.
But I also remember that about 25 years ago, I bought a relatively new Discovery for what in today's money nearly equals Grenadier's price. The time span between worrying of scuffing the body panels of a vehicle mostly owned by the bank and taking a hacksaw to clear larger tires was less than a year.


Let me draw again on old Discoweb experience. Do you care what a parking valet thinks of you? (it is rhetorical, in your case, but it gives you the gist).

Returning to the subject - I think after 3500 miles in the Grenadier I am developing immunity to the ADAS clicks. It would be nice to enjoy the music or quiet, though.

My Disco is 27 yrs old.

 

[255/85]

If INEOS just let us turn the system off and remember everything is perfect.

Somewhat of an issue but, it would not be one if there was a permanent kill switch for ADAS crap.

How about incorporating an ADAS "Off" command to the Auto Start/Stop button. That way you can decide whether or not you want to run the nannies or not depending on the situation. On for ULEZ; Off for...
FREEDOM!!! YEE HAW! Bang Bang!

Okay, I'm just kidding but a one touch solution would make me happier.

 

[255/85]

Ok, Here's your chime fix. Take an M16 and fire it indoors. Voila! That pitch women speak in and pesky little chimes fades into the rear view mirror of life.

Because now you're deaf?

 

[holdmybeer]

some truly dystopian reading including measuring how far apart your eyelids are to determine your level of drowsiness, and other in-cabin monitoring to change vehicle performance as a result of the computer's driver assessment

Crazy. I opened those documents you linked. That's so horrific it would be funny. If it wasn't true.

Rolling over and accepting ADAS 2024 without giving pushback to manufacturers and policymakers will ensure the thin end of this wedge is driven home well and good so future years will pile on more features "for our own good" because we have signalled we like it.

As a Canadian, my country tends to just follow US policy, which is frustrating because I don't have effective representation but I'll still send off another levelheaded and critical letter to a Safety or Transport Minister here. Sigh.

 

[stickshifter]

Crazy. I opened those documents you linked. That's so horrific it would be funny. If it wasn't true.

Rolling over and accepting ADAS 2024 without giving pushback to manufacturers and policymakers will ensure the thin end of this wedge is driven home well and good so future years will pile on more features "for our own good" because we have signalled we like it.

As a Canadian, my country tends to just follow US policy, which is frustrating because I don't have effective representation but I'll still send off another levelheaded and critical letter to a Safety or Transport Minister here. Sigh.

If you are comfortable doing so, it would be great if you shared the letter - either with the whole forum or - if you'd rather - just send it to me via private message. Whatever you feel okay with. Thanks!

 

[holdmybeer]

If you are comfortable doing so, it would be great if you shared the letter - either with the whole forum or - if you'd rather - just send it to me via private message. Whatever you feel okay with. Thanks!

Will do. I haven't penned it yet and I might do several because short and sweet instead of long, deep rants is more likely to get a meaningful response from a government office in my experience. i.e. don't flip the bozo bit on yourself prematurely!

There is research to support both sides. "ADAS is safer" conclusions are praised by the automotive industry because this obsoletes old cars and encourages people to buy more futuristic cars to drive more "easy" miles. OTOH, "ADAS is less safe" conclusions may follow from this reasoning:

1. ADAS causes unpracticed driving skills to get worse over time
2. ADAS encourages drivers to pay less attention because the car often pays attention for them
3. ADAS encourages riskier driving behaviour because of perceived safety
4. ADAS encourages poor drivers to drive more miles because of perceived safety

Much journalism on this. A quick search:

• https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/24/23414578/adas-car-technology-safety-traffic-crash-research
• https://thehill.com/policy/transpor...-cruise-control-to-increased-crash-risk/?rl=1
• https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/the-peltzman-effect
• https://caradas.com/adas-limitations-industry-challenges/

 

[Jeffrey]

Most all 'safety measure', and 'preventative systems' are lawyer driven mechanisms that need to serve the lowest common denominator, which means the billions of just plain stupid people that occupy this planet. But, as in any group situation, all members of the group are subject to the same laws, rules and restrictions. There's no real workaround for the thinkers.

 

[FlyersFan76]

Will do. I haven't penned it yet and I might do several because short and sweet instead of long, deep rants is more likely to get a meaningful response from a government office in my experience. i.e. don't flip the bozo bit on yourself prematurely!

There is research to support both sides. "ADAS is safer" conclusions are praised by the automotive industry because this obsoletes old cars and encourages people to buy more futuristic cars to drive more "easy" miles. OTOH, "ADAS is less safe" conclusions may follow from this reasoning:

1. ADAS causes unpracticed driving skills to get worse over time
2. ADAS encourages drivers to pay less attention because the car often pays attention for them
3. ADAS encourages riskier driving behaviour because of perceived safety
4. ADAS encourages poor drivers to drive more miles because of perceived safety

Much journalism on this. A quick search:

• https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/24/23414578/adas-car-technology-safety-traffic-crash-research
• https://thehill.com/policy/transpor...-cruise-control-to-increased-crash-risk/?rl=1
• https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/psychology/the-peltzman-effect
• https://caradas.com/adas-limitations-industry-challenges/

The "I don't need to the car does it for me" is scary thing to hear someone say. No less sharing a road with someone with that attitude.

The vehicle switch that helps you back up a trailer and DRL's (front lights only) are a few examples.

 

[FlyersFan76]

The closest I've received for an official stance on ADAS is that my dealer got back to me quoting their Ineos Adventure Director (whatever that is): "2024 and newer vehicles are now required for the ADAS system to reset with each drive cycle, in order to meet the ANCAP 5 star safety ratings." (ANCAP = Australian, non-regulatory body). The Euro version is Euro NCAP and has a very similar assessment prototcol.

I checked out their documentation to validate this. Looks like 'safety assist' is 20% of the score, and includes emergency braking, speed assist, and lane departure. Linking their current safety assist criteria for some truly dystopian reading including measuring how far apart your eyelids are to determine your level of drowsiness, and other in-cabin monitoring to change vehicle performance as a result of the computer's driver assessment.

Seems Ineos cowed to these non-regulatory safety ratings rather delivering the utilitarian, purpose built vehicle they promised. What were they thinking? Makes me wonder if I am actually the intended audience for this rig.

That could become a serious problem.

How is Jim Bruer ever going to drive a car?

 

[pmatusov]

The "I don't need to the car does it for me" is scary thing to hear someone say. No less sharing a road with someone with that attitude.

No shit.
Just after Christmas, as we were packing things up to go to Wyoming, a neighbor knocked on my door and told me someone backed into my daughter's Disco 5.
We came to check it out - sure enough, a Mazda CX-9 in disco grinding pose with the Land Rover. Before my daughter and son-in-law had a chance to call the cops, I figured it was a vehicle of our neighbor two doors away, so I knocked on his door.
Long story short - having had to use his wife's Mazda, he parked it at the curb (our street has a good slope to it), got the kids out, and went home.
Apparently, he got so used to driving his Tesla that he left it in Neutral, didn't bother with the parking brake, neither cramped the wheel to curb (which is mandatory in California if there's any grade). The Mazda soon decided to start going downhill (literally), blasted out of its way the next-door neighbor's full trash can (which probably saved the Disco from more damage), and landed in the Disco's front bumper.
Cosmetically, there's nothing - we reinstalled the dislocated grille, and that was that.
But behind that plastic crap in the D5 there's a front proximity sensor (no more cruise control), an external temperature sensor (no more A/C), and unknown number of other things that may be broken and that Land Rover wants $$ to even diagnose.

That made me more conscious of the various coolers behind the Grenadier's front bumper. Of course, these are better protected, but...

 

[emax]

Such gross negligence is not a trivial offense a la shit happens.

I don't know what I would do if a car like that crippled or killed my wife or child just because such an ignorant idiot was "used to his Tesla". What if a child had been "in the way"?

That would be a reason for me to doubt the perpetrator's suitability to drive a vehicle and maintain his driving license.

 

[TCMColorado]

It has to be recognized that for the US market this is not simply a matter of Ineos forcing unwanted features onto owners. So called safety features such as ADAS, while not currently government mandated in the US, increase industry safety ratings and therefore directly impact insurance rates. Without the ADAS system insurance premiums would be higher for all owners regardless of the carrier/underwriter. Ineos knows this would impact insurance rates and therefore potentially impact vehicle sales. I would rather push a couple of buttons to turn off the system than have to pay higher premiums.

What I find strange is that Ineos would choose not to incorporate blind spot monitoring or rear cross path detection. These two feature together with emergency braking assist, which ADAS does have, are those that actually have the greatest impact on safety. The benefits of drowsy driver alert, lane keep and speed warning are dubious.

 

[Tom109]

Yes, chasing NCAP, ANCAP, etc.

 

[MarkgreSC]

Here is another example of "click, click, click" being annoying. Google and the state of NC say the speed limit is 35 (I wasn't skilled enough while going to catch state sign in pic, but next time down that road, I will) Ineos is sure its 25 and until I shut off speed alert it kept reminding me ... "click, click, click" after about a month, I hear it in my sleep now.

 

[FlyersFan76]

Here is another example of "click, click, click" being annoying. Google and the state of NC say the speed limit is 35 (I wasn't skilled enough while going to catch state sign in pic, but next time down that road, I will) Ineos is sure its 25 and until I shut off speed alert it kept reminding me ... "click, click, click" after about a month, I hear it in my sleep now.View attachment 7839553

I was just thinking about this last night.

There is a road near me that use to be 45mph. In 2022 the township changed it to 35mph. Before my Defender was even built.

While driving that road (with updated software on the Defender) the speed limit detection system will jump anywhere between 35 and 50mph. There are only speed limit signs that say 35.


That is certainly a flaw with any and all ADAS systems. I am actually looking forward to driving on that road to see what happens. I also had my speed limit sign on the dash say 85 and it was a dirt road that has had a speed limit of 35 since for ever.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I’ve heard that this is being discussed at the level where something can be done to change it, in fact there was a meeting earlier today.

IA are taking note and I’m hopeful that there will be some software adjustment for this, a permanent off would be nice.

 

[stickshifter]

I’ve heard that this is being discussed at the level where something can be done to change it, in fact there was a meeting earlier today.

IA are taking note and I’m hopeful that there will be some software adjustment for this, a permanent off would be nice.

Thanks for communicating this, and please keep us up to date.