2024 ADAS Issue and Work Around (USA)

[Stu_Barnes]

Each time a software upgrade is performed by the dealer, the hack will probably be overwritten, hence the need for the changes to come from Ineos or the new software version would need the same hack(s) applied to it.

I touched on it elsewhere, but a straight swap of the sound of the lane departure and the ADAS would work as far as I'm concerned.

 

[grnamin]

I touched on it elsewhere, but a straight swap of the sound of the lane departure and the ADAS would work as far as I'm concerned.

I'm hoping that the sounds are generated by files (e.g., *.wav or *.mp4) as opposed to a physical device similar to a car horn.

 

[Tom109]

I'm hoping that the sounds are generated by files (e.g., *.wav or *.mp4) as opposed to a physical device similar to a car horn.

A physical device is much easier to defeat (unplug/remove).

 

[Mountain4x4]

I hear ya - but I'm very cautious with software changes independently - the car has the aerodynamics of a brick - but do not want to make it into a brick so to speak

I did that to my 2018 Ram attempting to change the speedo for tire size. It ran, 4x4 and the stereo worked Like in the movie Tommy Boy. Nothing else, not even low range worked. And I got pulled over speeding....."Well officer, the stereo still works" My mechanic fixed my programming screw up in 2 minutes,,,,

 

[parb]

For $80.00 does anyone know all the other dependent lines of code which if someone suppresses or deletes do not permanently hose this up? Is the line departure or speed tied into emergency braking? Does something else look at speed warning or something else - if any other system relies on ADAS data - you have in a word just f'ed a vehicle up (potentially) and voided your warranty...

I doubt these message classes has any persistency at all. And in terms of messing things up, generally the hmi (eg the display) wouldn't have any safety systems in it. Typically the display interface just send off messages to the domain controller on the CAN network responsible for the ADAS function to instruct it to modify its behavior. Its not like you're inside the hmi or domain controllers code, you're just sending a message on the CAN network to the domain controller for the ADAS function.

Caveat emptor, the person doing this work obviously need to know what they are doing and have a decent understanding of how vehicle systems works.

If you look up comma.ai that is basically how their system works. They insert CAN messages on the network to do things like brake, steer and adjust speed. Now i am in no way advocating anyone using their system, i'm just using it as an example for how you can insert messages into the network to make the car operate differently than how the OEM designed it. I have no reason to believe Ineos would be any different from other mainstream cars.

Of course if someone has access to Ineos DBC file for the Grenadier I can tell you right away what is possible without access to a vehicle...

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

I doubt these message classes has any persistency at all. And in terms of messing things up, generally the hmi (eg the display) wouldn't have any safety systems in it. Typically the display interface just send off messages to the domain controller on the CAN network responsible for the ADAS function to instruct it to modify its behavior. Its not like you're inside the hmi or domain controllers code, you're just sending a message on the CAN network to the domain controller for the ADAS function.

Caveat emptor, the person doing this work obviously need to know what they are doing and have a decent understanding of how vehicle systems works.

If you look up comma.ai that is basically how their system works. They insert CAN messages on the network to do things like brake, steer and adjust speed. Now i am in no way advocating anyone using their system, i'm just using it as an example for how you can insert messages into the network to make the car operate differently than how the OEM designed it. I have no reason to believe Ineos would be any different from other mainstream cars.

Of course if someone has access to Ineos DBC file for the Grenadier I can tell you right away what is possible without access to a vehicle...

Anxiously awaiting this person to arrive and bandaid the problem BUT I am hoping INEOS will come up with a solution. Also, any future system updates erase these fixes.

 

[zvakanaka]

As far as I know, this is a USA Only Issue and Specific to the ADAS System in the 2024 Model. Feel free to skip the Background editorial and go to the Solution!

Background

I was lucky enough to have an early delivery and picked my Grenadier up on Nov 27th. Scottish White (Love it!), Leather, 17” Alloys, BFG K02s, Rock Sliders, +++. What follows is not about the very long list of things I love about the Grenadier, it’s about one factory configuration Issue that makes me (almost) hate it.

This issue, and it is unfortunately ‘by design,’ is part of the newly released 2024 ADAS System includes Lane Departure, Traffic Sign Recognition, Intelligent Speed Assist, Over Speed Alert, and a few other things, are ON by default and must be turned OFF deep in the Display Menu ‘every time’ you restart the vehicle.

It’s hard to explain without experiencing it but the warning Beeps, Clicks and Chimes are beyond annoying. For example, the clicking for Intelligent Speed Assist starts when you hit the stated speed limit in most cases. The amount of beeping in this vehicle is beyond anything I've ever experienced other than an ICU room in a hospital.

As a Public Service Announcement (PSA), I would encourage you to drive it when you go to pick it up.

When I say down deep in the Menu, this is the actual process to turn OFF the Over Speed Alert (Note: My Car starts up in Carplay Mode):

CarPlay > Ineos > Settings > Vehicle Settings > Vehicle Functions > ADAS Systems > Intelligent Speed Assist > Over Speed Warning > Over Speed Warning OFF > CarPlay

That is 10 Menu Clicks. Every time you restart the car if you want to turn off Lane Departure, Intelligent Speed Assist, and Over Speed Alert.

For those thinking, ‘This is no big deal, you shouldn’t be driving over the speed limit anyway ….’ Hear me know, believe me later. It is MADDENING. I mainly drive in town, and don’t drive excessively over the speed limit under any circumstances. I’d say speed limit or speed limit +5 MPH, Max. Having alerts going off when you hit the stated speed limit and after, is just wrong in my opinion.

Here is a real-world scenario: You're driving in a 40 MPH Zone .... 39 MPH to 41 MPH. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK Back down to 40 MPH .... hit 42MPH CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK. Back down to 40 MPH. Speed up to pass a car. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK. Repeat this scenario on your daily commute. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK, that's a sound you'll be hearing in your sleep!

I am hoping for a Software Update. However, it says in the Manual that these features can be changed (As described above), but again, not saved after turning off the vehicle. Page 136 in the manual.

Solution
This is the best workaround I have come up with for the ADAS issue related to the constant chiming and clicking when you hit the speed limit and go beyond it. It’s not great, but it’s the best I could figure out until we hopefully get a Software Update.

From the Display: Settings > General > CCI Favourite > Settings-ISA

When you start the vehicle, let the Display cycle up / load. Then hit the Favorite Button on the center console. It will bring up the Settings-ISA Screen. Turn Off Over Speed Warning.

Note 1: If you Unselect ‘Speed Limit Info’ you will have a persistent Orange Icon on the Telltale Display (That’s the name of the small screen in front of the Steering Wheel).
Note 2: You still need to do this every time you start the Vehicle but its way better than the 10 Step approach.

I tried a few other things, including Wade Mode which disables many of these systems, and the Deactivate all ADAS Systems. The issue with both of these options is that they light up the Telltale Display like a Christmas Tree.

Again, I am not posting this because I hate my Grenadier, I love it. I just 100% hate the fact that this feature/lack thereof impacts the driving experience for me.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

The first video is configuring the Favorite Button and the second is Start Up / Deactivation.

This works for me thanks for the suggestion, use it now every time I start the car

 

[terdrocket]

They delivered mine last night.
After reading the posts here from the first guys to encounter the speed warnings, I was prepared to be annoyed.
It is a minor annoyance and not a deal breaker. If I forget to disable it before I leave, it only takes one time of going over the limit to help me remember. (So, pretty much as soon as I push the throttle.)
My dealer already saved to favorites. (Crown in St. Pete. They have been awesome.)
That being said, it will be great when there is an update.

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

They delivered mine last night.
After reading the posts here from the first guys to encounter the speed warnings, I was prepared to be annoyed.
It is a minor annoyance and not a deal breaker. If I forget to disable it before I leave, it only takes one time of going over the limit to help me remember. (So, pretty much as soon as I push the throttle.)
My dealer already saved to favorites. (Crown in St. Pete. They have been awesome.)
That being said, it will be great when there is an update.

Yes, there is definitely a reminder to turn it off!

 

[IG_in_AZ]

Same here. It's a very minor thing. I turn it off. Start engine, turn off auto start / stop, hit Fav, turn off ISA, hit Audio, start music, hit Android Auto. ( it seems to work better running music through the media rather than android auto - YouTube Music starts over in AA, but continues where you left off in Audio. Maybe I haven't figured out how to do it a different way, but that's how I've figured out to do it one way.

 

[curb-optional]

Spoke with Ineos today. The ADAS is either on or off - no ability to set parameters, such as alert if 10 mph over speed limit (something I wouldn't mind), if you want to deactivate, must do so EVERY time you start vehicle; considered safety measure so no plans too change current programming.

my LR has a programmable speed alarm. I have it set at 80 mph. If I go over 80, then there's a note "Speed Alarm" on the dash along with a single (not repeating) ding. The note goes away when I go under 80, and the noise does not over ride the radio - so it's very ingenious I'd say, and I do like it. However, if it buzzed at me when I did 32 mph in a 30 mph zone, I'd be looking for alternatives. For the government to mandate something like that seems crazy Orwell 1984. If the government is forcing car manufacturers to collect information on drivers that speed, only a matter of time until they force the same manufacturers to also install an instant "ticket printer" for us. Hopefully, car manufacturers will push back. Like many government regulations, I suspect the purpose is not driver safety or public benefit: it's revenue. An improperly functioning ADAS system, or a car with a modification, can be sources of revenue to the government agency mandating ADAS. It's like asking companies to file documents with 10 point font, except for the letter z which MUST be a 11 point font; unless the letter z follows the letter a, in which case it needs to be a 12 point font... you get it. The regulation is there for purposes of generating revenue from anticipated difficulties in compliance. If compliance is too high, expanding regulatory complexity will bring more transgressions (and revenue). It has zero to do with being productive, useful, or beneficial to society at large. Once the car can record your speed, it's only a matter of time until the car shares that information with your insurance company...

 

[AZGrenadier]

Cars have been recording your speed already. They can pull all sorts of data leading up to an accident, whether you braked, how fast you were going, how long you have been driving etc. Not sure how much is used by the the insurance companies, but the data is already there for any new vehicle.

 

[holdmybeer]

I agree with everything you said. Except we've created an Aldous Huxley dystopia all by ourselves instead of government installing a George Orwell dystopia.

Once the car can record your speed, it's only a matter of time until the car shares that information with your insurance company...

Progressive Insurance in the US started doing this over 20 years ago. You'd voluntarily install an in-car device to record your location and speed and they'd give you a discount for driving "safely" and/or they'd ding you for driving "unsafely". People do this to themselves. I haven't followed it but I understand the same insurance "feature" is implemented by installing apps on our phones that give companies and/or governments insight into our behaviour and we are charged accordingly. We don't have to. We do it voluntarily.

It's Huxley all the way IMO ... not Orwell ... we f**k ourselves over because of our appetite for convenience, money saving, and gee-whiz features. And if we ever get around to reading the terms we clicked to agree to, it's too late.

Big Brother doesn't have to surveil us because we buy our own expensive surveillance devices and fill our pockets and homes and cars with them while we amuse ourselves to death.

Also, Happy New Year!

 

[Grapa]

My Ineos dealer told me this about the ADAS system “They (Ineos) said in order to get the IG certified for on road use and insurance purposes in the US they needed the ADAS.
After I told them I read on the forum someone said they did the research and it is a recommended but not mandatory in the US.

 

[Deleted member 9047666 (user closed account)]

Assuming what they told you is true, I would like to see a declarative statement from the dealer / INEOS.

My opinion:

Requirement = Seat Belt Chime which can't be turned off until you buckle up.
(Non) Requirement / Interpretation of a Requirement = ADAS which can be turned off in a pain in the A$$ manner.

I was in a 2024 Toyota SUV for a week in Colorado. Their version of ADAS, which had A LOT more features, was perfectly acceptable and not intrusive.

I would say that some dealers are telling buyers it's a 'requirement' (to close the sale) and others are telling buyers the 'Favorite Hack' (to close the sale). Salespeople sell the products they have, including minimizing annoying features. I'm not being anti-salesperson here but relying on them to understand the requirements to get a vehicle on the road is probably a bad assumption.

Intentional or not (I am suspicious), the previous Press / Media reviews of the Grenadier were not with the version WE are being delivered. LOVE the vehicle BUT if ADAS was a known 'feature/requirement,' I would NOT have bought it.

As soon as a mainstream media review of a 2024 Grenadier (with ADAS) is released, it will be a viral moment for this issue.

 

[Boston Boy]

Assuming what they told you is true, I would like to see a declarative statement from the dealer / INEOS.

My opinion:

Requirement = Seat Belt Chime which can't be turned off until you buckle up.
(Non) Requirement / Interpretation of a Requirement = ADAS which can be turned off in a pain in the A$$ manner.

I was in a 2024 Toyota SUV for a week in Colorado. Their version of ADAS, which had A LOT more features, was perfectly acceptable and not intrusive.

I would say that some dealers are telling buyers it's a 'requirement' (to close the sale) and others are telling buyers the 'Favorite Hack' (to close the sale). Salespeople sell the products they have, including minimizing annoying features. I'm not being anti-salesperson here but relying on them to understand the requirements to get a vehicle on the road is probably a bad assumption.

Intentional or not (I am suspicious), the previous Press / Media reviews of the Grenadier were not with the version WE are being delivered. LOVE the vehicle BUT if ADAS was a known 'feature/requirement,' I would NOT have bought it.

As soon as a mainstream media review of a 2024 Grenadier (with ADAS) is released, it will be a viral moment for this issue.

The auto makers are fighting tooth and nail (with lobbying) to keep control of all the collected information that they can monetize later: location data, how fast do you drive, do you go to a hospital, whose house do you visit, what web sites to you visit from your connected phone, some point soon, what you discuss while riding in the car) All of that can be sold, and they are fighting for the ability to do it to do it.

 

[Tazzieman]

Like in the movie Tommy Boy. Nothing else, not even low range worked. And I got pulled over speeding....."Well officer, the stereo still works"

Reminds me of the post car fire scene in Planes , Trains and Automobiles!
"But the radio still works. Don't ask me how"

 

[Grapa]

Assuming what they told you is true, I would like to see a declarative statement from the dealer / INEOS.

My opinion:

Requirement = Seat Belt Chime which can't be turned off until you buckle up.
(Non) Requirement / Interpretation of a Requirement = ADAS which can be turned off in a pain in the A$$ manner.

I was in a 2024 Toyota SUV for a week in Colorado. Their version of ADAS, which had A LOT more features, was perfectly acceptable and not intrusive.

I would say that some dealers are telling buyers it's a 'requirement' (to close the sale) and others are telling buyers the 'Favorite Hack' (to close the sale). Salespeople sell the products they have, including minimizing annoying features. I'm not being anti-salesperson here but relying on them to understand the requirements to get a vehicle on the road is probably a bad assumption.

Intentional or not (I am suspicious), the previous Press / Media reviews of the Grenadier were not with the version WE are being delivered. LOVE the vehicle BUT if ADAS was a known 'feature/requirement,' I would NOT have bought it.

As soon as a mainstream media review of a 2024 Grenadier (with ADAS) is released, it will be a viral moment for this issue.

In my opinion, its a bunch of BS. I just drove my brothers Ineos in the mountains of Andorra and it was as good as it can be, like old school toyota 80 but more fun with NO F* ADAS system reminding every time like a karen you are above 5% of speed limit!
Ineos Perfectly can have their team do a software update and make the vehicle remember the settings! Off stay off!
The overspeed beeping is a pain and in populated cities x10.
I tried taking the fuse out, black tape on the camera but then is christmas tree on the tell tale cluster.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Not sure how much is used by the the insurance companies, but the data is already there for any new vehicle.

Laws are different of course, but a friend is working for a car insurance company in the fraud detection team. By law (in Belgium), nobody can be forced to give the information of the car data to an insurance company, unless by a decision of a judge. But, if they (the insurance company) suspect fraud, and the customer refuses to provide the data, the insurance company refuses to pay. If the customer wants to go to court he can. A judge could then force the guy to anyway disclose the car information ...

 

[TXTodd]

As far as I know, this is a USA Only Issue and Specific to the ADAS System in the 2024 Model. Feel free to skip the Background editorial and go to the Solution!

Background

I was lucky enough to have an early delivery and picked my Grenadier up on Nov 27th. Scottish White (Love it!), Leather, 17” Alloys, BFG K02s, Rock Sliders, +++. What follows is not about the very long list of things I love about the Grenadier, it’s about one factory configuration Issue that makes me (almost) hate it.

This issue, and it is unfortunately ‘by design,’ is part of the newly released 2024 ADAS System includes Lane Departure, Traffic Sign Recognition, Intelligent Speed Assist, Over Speed Alert, and a few other things, are ON by default and must be turned OFF deep in the Display Menu ‘every time’ you restart the vehicle.

It’s hard to explain without experiencing it but the warning Beeps, Clicks and Chimes are beyond annoying. For example, the clicking for Intelligent Speed Assist starts when you hit the stated speed limit in most cases. The amount of beeping in this vehicle is beyond anything I've ever experienced other than an ICU room in a hospital.

As a Public Service Announcement (PSA), I would encourage you to drive it when you go to pick it up.

When I say down deep in the Menu, this is the actual process to turn OFF the Over Speed Alert (Note: My Car starts up in Carplay Mode):

CarPlay > Ineos > Settings > Vehicle Settings > Vehicle Functions > ADAS Systems > Intelligent Speed Assist > Over Speed Warning > Over Speed Warning OFF > CarPlay

That is 10 Menu Clicks. Every time you restart the car if you want to turn off Lane Departure, Intelligent Speed Assist, and Over Speed Alert.

For those thinking, ‘This is no big deal, you shouldn’t be driving over the speed limit anyway ….’ Hear me know, believe me later. It is MADDENING. I mainly drive in town, and don’t drive excessively over the speed limit under any circumstances. I’d say speed limit or speed limit +5 MPH, Max. Having alerts going off when you hit the stated speed limit and after, is just wrong in my opinion.

Here is a real-world scenario: You're driving in a 40 MPH Zone .... 39 MPH to 41 MPH. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK Back down to 40 MPH .... hit 42MPH CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK. Back down to 40 MPH. Speed up to pass a car. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK. Repeat this scenario on your daily commute. CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK, that's a sound you'll be hearing in your sleep!

I am hoping for a Software Update. However, it says in the Manual that these features can be changed (As described above), but again, not saved after turning off the vehicle. Page 136 in the manual.

Solution
This is the best workaround I have come up with for the ADAS issue related to the constant chiming and clicking when you hit the speed limit and go beyond it. It’s not great, but it’s the best I could figure out until we hopefully get a Software Update.

From the Display: Settings > General > CCI Favourite > Settings-ISA

When you start the vehicle, let the Display cycle up / load. Then hit the Favorite Button on the center console. It will bring up the Settings-ISA Screen. Turn Off Over Speed Warning.

Note 1: If you Unselect ‘Speed Limit Info’ you will have a persistent Orange Icon on the Telltale Display (That’s the name of the small screen in front of the Steering Wheel).
Note 2: You still need to do this every time you start the Vehicle but its way better than the 10 Step approach.

I tried a few other things, including Wade Mode which disables many of these systems, and the Deactivate all ADAS Systems. The issue with both of these options is that they light up the Telltale Display like a Christmas Tree.

Again, I am not posting this because I hate my Grenadier, I love it. I just 100% hate the fact that this feature/lack thereof impacts the driving experience for me.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

The first video is configuring the Favorite Button and the second is Start Up / Deactivation.

Got mine yesterday. That ADAS system is making me hate driving that vehicle. Every time I turn it off, it starts all over again. The ADAS system is absolutely maddening. If they don’t come up with a software update that works around the ADAS, I will not be keeping the vehicle.