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Steering stabilizer bar

Dokatd said:
100% correct! The factory Steering stabilizer is to blame for the lack of self centering and to some degree the wandering.

On another note, who's comparing the IG's steering to a rack and pinion? It's unfortunate that some here continue to presume that's the problem, that everyone thinks it should feel like a Subaru or something.

To be clear there are two distinct complaints outside of an off center steering wheel. The two actual issues are the lack of return to center and the wandering. Most of these complaints are from the USA where road speeds are generally higher unless your from one of those North East states that have 55mph interstates. Aside from that, yeah we all get it that it drives like any other solid axle truck. Nobody is complaining that's the steering is heavy or less than sports car like. Hell the IG's steering is way easier than my G wagon.

There is no reasonably modern Dodge, Ford or Chevy truck that has the return to center issues or that wanders unless something is definitively wrong with it. I've driven versions of all of these made in the last 3-4 decades. There is not one that drives like the IG regardless of any delusions anyone here is having.

Stop insinuating anyone complaining about the IG's steering is comparing it to a Rack and Pinion vehicle.
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While most members of this forum are not comparing the steering to a rack and pinon vehicle, the greater automotive market most certainly is.
 
TCMColorado said:
While most members of this forum are not comparing the steering to a rack and pinon vehicle, the greater automotive market most certainly is.
Click to expand...
I understand your point, but there are certainly a few prominent members here that continue to push the rack and pinion narrative.
 
On topic of death wobble, I experienced this several months ago. Was bad, dangerous. For what is it worth, I had zero issue with a wobble prior to having the dealer install the fox AGA 1001, had multiple wobble events almost immediately after (random though... like 70 miles after install and driving at speed for some time... and certainly dangerous driving down highway), and once I had the dealer go back to stock, I've not had an issue since.

I'm in the US, have 20K miles on vehicle.

So, about 19,750 with stock... all good. 250 miles with AGA 1001... for some reason... awful.

Glad others are happy w/ fox as it sounds like it has been issue free for them.

For others dealing with wobble, consider going back to stock IMO.
 
Knoe said:
After this first deathwobble my dealer changed the dampener against a new one of the same OME type and did. a correct axle setting with maximum possible caster.
400 Kilometers later I had the next very hard deathwobble.
My dealer tells me that he has a lot of customers with the OME damper and that I‘am the only one with this problem. Not a big help for me…..
Now I have a date for changing the damper to the original one.
In my opinion the OME damper is very dangerous, because you don’t feel the slightest problem before the deathwobble happens.
I wish all of you a good new year (without deathwobble)
Click to expand...
You can see my earlier posts (+ one I just did for group) on topic. I went back to stock and have been not experienced wobble since. Good luck!
 
jcurtin said:
On topic of death wobble, I experienced this several months ago. Was bad, dangerous. For what is it worth, I had zero issue with a wobble prior to having the dealer install the fox AGA 1001, had multiple wobble events almost immediately after (random though... like 70 miles after install and driving at speed for some time... and certainly dangerous driving down highway), and once I had the dealer go back to stock, I've not had an issue since.

I'm in the US, have 20K miles on vehicle.

So, about 19,750 with stock... all good. 250 miles with AGA 1001... for some reason... awful.

Glad others are happy w/ fox as it sounds like it has been issue free for them.

For others dealing with wobble, consider going back to stock IMO.
Click to expand...
There shouldnt be any DW on a new truck but that having been said, it's apparent they experienced it and likely too late in the development to fiddle with the control arms, so they chose an extra heavy dampener. I'm assuming off the line most wouldn't experience anything even without a dampener, but I also expect there's going to be loosening of the linkage the more miles, wheeling and binding that occurs, so... while I was going to just ditch it and see what happens after my first service, after reading some experiences like this, I've decided to just keep it. After 8000 miles, I'm accustomed to the shitty return to center, so it's all meh at this point.
 
TCMColorado said:
The owners who continue to make that comparison bought the wrong vehicle.
Click to expand...
You are not wrong. But I take more issue with the ones that come on and say "Mine steers just fine
jcurtin said:
On topic of death wobble, I experienced this several months ago. Was bad, dangerous. For what is it worth, I had zero issue with a wobble prior to having the dealer install the fox AGA 1001, had multiple wobble events almost immediately after (random though... like 70 miles after install and driving at speed for some time... and certainly dangerous driving down highway), and once I had the dealer go back to stock, I've not had an issue since.

I'm in the US, have 20K miles on vehicle.

So, about 19,750 with stock... all good. 250 miles with AGA 1001... for some reason... awful.

Glad others are happy w/ fox as it sounds like it has been issue free for them.

For others dealing with wobble, consider going back to stock IMO.
Click to expand...
What is AGA 1001?

If you didn't have the adjustable unit then you were short changed. The adjustable Fox can achieve similar results to the factory unit.

The Fox units are not made for the IG in any way whatsoever. Vendors are just repurposing units made for jeeps and such. Thus the valving is not tailored to the IG at all.

I cannot speak to the valving of the King unit.

With the Fox adjustable you can dial in what you need. Find a road defect that causes your Death Wobble and run over it a few times at different settings until you get as low as possible without any wobble. Then maybe turn it a click higher for good measure.

Hopefully Fox and others will spec a properly valved stabilizer in the near future.

Bottom line, there is no magic or voodoo in the stock unit, just a crap ton of valving that can be mimicked by, at the moment, only a highly adjustable steering stabilizer.
 
Dokatd said:
You are not wrong. But I take more issue with the ones that come on and say "Mine steers just fine

What is AGA 1001?

If you didn't have the adjustable unit then you were short changed. The adjustable Fox can achieve similar results to the factory unit.

The Fox units are not made for the IG in any way whatsoever. Vendors are just repurposing units made for jeeps and such. Thus the valving is not tailored to the IG at all.

I cannot speak to the valving of the King unit.

With the Fox adjustable you can dial in what you need. Find a road defect that causes your Death Wobble and run over it a few times at different settings until you get as low as possible without any wobble. Then maybe turn it a click higher for good measure.

Hopefully Fox and others will spec a properly valved stabilizer in the near future.

Bottom line, there is no magic or voodoo in the stock unit, just a crap ton of valving that can be mimicked by, at the moment, only a highly adjustable steering stabilizer.
Click to expand...
I'm not certain what you mean by "tailored" valving. There's no magic or voodoo in any of them. Unfortunately, it appears there's a good reason for the stiff stock units.

As far as custom tuning goes, I'd approach this how I approach my AR's. I didn't tune them to shoot soft as puppy fur, then add a tad. I tuned mine so as to not slam back hard enough to break anything, but unfailingly cycle. Failure to work is a pickle, so I'm guessing that was the approach the Ineos guys took here. Why screw around, shoot for NO death wobble on any of them.

Yep, I've changed from team "rip it off" to team "leave it alone". The easiest way to be right the most often, is to identify where you're wrong.
 
A stabilizer isn't a smoking gun for death wobble, that can come from anything related to steering and suspension.
 
Dokatd said:
You are not wrong. But I take more issue with the ones that come on and say "Mine steers just fine

What is AGA 1001?

If you didn't have the adjustable unit then you were short changed. The adjustable Fox can achieve similar results to the factory unit.

The Fox units are not made for the IG in any way whatsoever. Vendors are just repurposing units made for jeeps and such. Thus the valving is not tailored to the IG at all.

I cannot speak to the valving of the King unit.

With the Fox adjustable you can dial in what you need. Find a road defect that causes your Death Wobble and run over it a few times at different settings until you get as low as possible without any wobble. Then maybe turn it a click higher for good measure.

Hopefully Fox and others will spec a properly valved stabilizer in the near future.

Bottom line, there is no magic or voodoo in the stock unit, just a crap ton of valving that can be mimicked by, at the moment, only a highly adjustable steering stabilizer.
Click to expand...
1736533277142.png
 
Zimm said:
I'm not certain what you mean by "tailored" valving. There's no magic or voodoo in any of them. Unfortunately, it appears there's a good reason for the stiff stock units.

As far as custom tuning goes, I'd approach this how I approach my AR's. I didn't tune them to shoot soft as puppy fur, then add a tad. I tuned mine so as to not slam back hard enough to break anything, but unfailingly cycle. Failure to work is a pickle, so I'm guessing that was the approach the Ineos guys took here. Why screw around, shoot for NO death wobble on any of them.

Yep, I've changed from team "rip it off" to team "leave it alone". The easiest way to be right the most often, is to identify where you're wrong.
Click to expand...

If you are not aware that steering stabilizers and of course shocks are tailored or more precisely valved to the application then you have little credibility.

AR's? Poor comparison.

If you were using that AR for hours on end daily you would be more inclined to refine the experience.

I use my A400 far more in the field than my insanely expensive custom Browning Double Barrel. Why, because the A400 does the same job but better. The Browning is mostly eye candy at this point.

If you want to "shoot" for no death wobble then get an IFS truck. It will do effectively everything a factory IG will do and there will most certainly be no chance of death wobble. Plus more diff clearance.

It's funny, most people really thought "Hey, the IG will be something I can work on myself cause it's simple and I can throw a bunch of accessories on it". Now it's don't mess with it!!!!! Ineos knows best. What a joke! Give your balls a tug.
 
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Dokatd said:
If you are not aware that steering stabilizers and of course shocks are tailored or more precisely valved to the application then you have little credibility.

AR's? Poor comparison.

If you were using that AR for hours on end daily you would be more inclined to refine the experience.

I use my A400 far more in the field than my insanely expensive custom Browning Double Barrel. Why, because the A400 does the same job but better. The Browning is mostly eye candy at this point.

If you want to "shoot" for no death wobble then get an IFS truck. It will do effectively everything a factory IG will do and there will most certainly be no chance of death wobble. Plus more diff clearance.

It's funny, most people really thought "Hey, the IG will be something I can work on myself cause it's simple and I can throw a bunch of accessories on it". Now it's don't mess with it!!!!! Ineos knows best. What a joke! Give your balls a tug.
Click to expand...
LOL. Talk about internet balls.

They look at the factory unit, and sell a unit that closely replicates the factory unit, if they even do that. No one is spending 100k miles analyzing the particular steering dynamics of every truck so they can make and sell a few thousand bespoke stabilizers. They merely provide linear resistance in both directions. The fine tuning consists of "more" or "less" hence, you can purchase an adjustable unit if you believe its warranted. Orrrr... If monster trucks is the thing, they hop into their lab, spend three months and 10000 miles testing, and analyzing all the forces the precision equipment recorded... and... NAAAA.... they just add a fucking second unit to "refine the experience".

Ineos seems to have decided this is the level of resistance necessary to eliminate any issues with resonance, and from peoples experience with lower resistance units, I does appear they are right, unless you're telling me these people are liars.

Tell your AR "refined experience" theory to HK the next time your 416 slams you, but yet never stops cycling no matter the conditions. They clearly don't know what they are doing when it comes to keeping the gun cycling.
 
I personally haven't had any issues with death wobble, or any issues with the steering in general. I have come to love the steering dynamics in comparison to my 100 Series and 06 Dodge Ram P/U Truck. The LC feels sluggish and slow in comparison, and the 06 RAM with XP Camper needed a KING stabilizer for it to not wear me out on long highway jaunts. The Bilstien unit that was installed by the PO was too stiff and caused the truck to track to pull to one side.

The loaner I had felt the same as my current Gren, but I do remember the first one I ever test drove feeling like it was all over the road and had massive over-steer. Death wobble is no joke and can be really scary and fatal if the driver loses control on a highway. I am wondering if Ineos has a design flaw that forces them to rely on an extremely heavy duty steering stabilizer to prevent it. I know it happens on new Jeeps as well. My buddy just Lemon'ed his 4xe Wrangler due to death wobble the dealer couldn't resolve.
 
No they don't do extensive testing for 100's of thousands of miles, but neither do race car drivers both on and off-road. They make changes quickly to see what works best. If FOX ever pursues the IG market for real then they will eventually have a spec for the valving of their non adjustable stabilizers. Effectively they will come to a consensus that they need a touch more valving on an IG application as opposed to a Jeep.

But so long as we are living with shops scratching and clawing for products to sell to the IG market we will have products being pushed that are not wholly suitable. So an adjustable unit is your best option if you want to run something other than stock.

And yeah Ineos has truly proven to be God like in the engineering and design spaces.

🙄
 
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