Steering stabilizer bar

[DavidG]

Has anyone seen the YouTube video from Agile Off-road on their custom Fox steering stabilizer bar for the Grenadier? Have you tried it out? If so, what do you think? Also related - if you had it installed, do you know if it voids the warranty?

Yup! I installed it 2 weeks ago. I have it in the mid (14) setting but honestly haven’t noticed much difference. I’m going to try the stiff (24) setting to see if I notice the difference

 

[Michael_in_Baja]

Yup! I installed it 2 weeks ago. I have it in the mid (14) setting but honestly haven’t noticed much difference. I’m going to try the stiff (24) setting to see if I notice the difference

Really? I set mine in the middle at 12 and it unwinds out of a turn peehaps 90% of the way, giving me the rest of the engineers intended stiffness.

My bigger concern regarding the stabilizer was the amount of force needed to compress the OEM unit and the amount of wear and tear that is going to put on our front ends over time.

 

[Quartermaster]

Really? I set mine in the muddle at 12 and it unwinds out of a turn peehaps 90% of the way.

My bigger concern regarding the stabilizer was the amount of force needed to compress the OEM unit and the amount of wear and tear that is going to put on our front ends over time.

That are my thoughts as well. The stress on the steering components is strongly reduced with my Old man Emu.

 

[Zimm]

Really? I set mine in the middle at 12 and it unwinds out of a turn peehaps 90% of the way, giving me the rest of the engineers intended stiffness.

My bigger concern regarding the stabilizer was the amount of force needed to compress the OEM unit and the amount of wear and tear that is going to put on our front ends over time.

If the stiffness was "engineered" and not intended to compensate, by definition that was taken into consideration and will not happen.

I also don't think any of the materials used are going to fatigue. Doubling the force on a stabilizer still doesn't scratch the force the bushings and welds are designed to take. Age, water, salts are still going to be your concern.

 

[Dokatd]

If the stiffness was "engineered" and not intended to compensate, by definition that was taken into consideration and will not happen.

I also don't think any of the materials used are going to fatigue. Doubling the force on a stabilizer still doesn't scratch the force the bushings and welds are designed to take. Age, water, salts are still going to be your concern.

Have you ever owned a Dodge Ram or really any 3/4 to 1 ton truck? All engineered and all of them fall to pieces in the front end. I ran a small fleet of Rams and they all needed major rebuild of the front ends after 20-30k miles.

Stop hiding behind the “it’s engineered to perfection line” because it’s not. It’s compromised to “acceptable” standards.

 

[TCMColorado]

Optimal engineering withstanding, the forces exerted by the wheels/tires into the steering system, via their interaction with road and trail surfaces, will greatly exceed the forces resulting from the "stiff" OEM steering damper making loading from this component an inconsequential part of fatigue cycling. Yes changing the damper might improve subjective steering feel but it is unlikely to improve durability or reliability.

 

[255/85]

My bigger concern regarding the stabilizer was the amount of force needed to compress the OEM unit and the amount of wear and tear that is going to put on our front ends over time.

If there is going to be any real long term strain it will show in the steering box. The resistance supplied by the stabilizer is all focused on the tie rod ball joints but those are a wear item anyway (and quite large).

Have you ever owned a Dodge Ram or really any 3/4 to 1 ton truck? All engineered and all of them fall to pieces in the front end. I ran a small fleet of Rams and they all needed major rebuild of the front ends after 20-30k miles.

My Dodge Ram 4X4 with a Cummins and 225K+ miles on the odo is 100% original. I've never so much as changed a rod end. I've adjusted the steering box exactly once. Maybe i got lucky.

 

[Zimm]

Have you ever owned a Dodge Ram or really any 3/4 to 1 ton truck? All engineered and all of them fall to pieces in the front end. I ran a small fleet of Rams and they all needed major rebuild of the front ends after 20-30k miles.

Stop hiding behind the “it’s engineered to perfection line” because it’s not. It’s compromised to “acceptable” standards.

Where did I do that, and wtf does dodge have to do with it? No, I've never purchased a dodge truck for the fleet as their rep for being a shit chassis precedes it, but, all of our trucks have been Fords (E and F 150 to 550) and Mercs with an odd few GM in the Astro van days (nice tool box for parking garages in town), and I don't recall any major issues with front ends. I also don't think the dampener in the Doges had any affect whatsoever on whatever it was you experienced, which would be a parallel as to what we're discussing. .

 

[Tazzieman]

My Dodge Ram 4X4 with a Cummins and 225K+ miles on the odo is 100% original. I've never so much as changed a rod end.

If the rubber boot on the ball joint keeps the grease in and moisture/grit out it will last a very long time.
Problem is , offroading is hard on rubber anything.

 

[Tom109]

… just seems like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Michael_in_Baja]

If the stiffness was "engineered" and not intended to compensate, by definition that was taken into consideration and will not happen.

I also don't think any of the materials used are going to fatigue. Doubling the force on a stabilizer still doesn't scratch the force the bushings and welds are designed to take. Age, water, salts are still going to be your concern.

I was referring to the steering box, power steering pump, hydraulic system and drag link. The OEM stabilizer looks and acts like it was designed for something off a two and a half ton truck and bigger. Lightening it up is a win-win.

In fluid dynamics, Bernoulli's principle states that an increase in the speed of a fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in pressure. Decreasing pressure (resistance) increases effiency.

My first 1,000 miles in the Grenadier was quite satisfying. Initially the steering was a problem that did not need a solution. When considering the bigger picture I changed my opinion. If this is a problem that doesn't need a solution for you, perfect.

 

[Dokatd]

If there is going to be any real long term strain it will show in the steering box. The resistance supplied by the stabilizer is all focused on the tie rod ball joints but those are a wear item anyway (and quite large).



My Dodge Ram 4X4 with a Cummins and 225K+ miles on the odo is 100% original. I've never so much as changed a rod end. I've adjusted the steering box exactly once. Maybe i got lucky.

Assuming maybe a 12V? It’s the later 2000’s 4x4’s that tended to fall apart. Still my choice for towing though.

 

[Dokatd]

Where did I do that, and wtf does dodge have to do with it? No, I've never purchased a dodge truck for the fleet as their rep for being a shit chassis precedes it, but, all of our trucks have been Fords (E and F 150 to 550) and Mercs with an odd few GM in the Astro van days (nice tool box for parking garages in town), and I don't recall any major issues with front ends. I also don't think the dampener in the Doges had any affect whatsoever on whatever it was you experienced, which would be a parallel as to what we're discussing. .

Well, you did it when you said it’s engineered and should be good (Paraphrased of course)

Dodge was just an example where someone engineered something that didn’t always hold up at the end of the day. We can apply it to any time an engineer failed to account for the real world or simply missed something. Certain highly engineered Toyotas have been known to break in two. Buildings and bridges have collapsed, Rockets have blown up etc etc etc. Happens daily if not hourly. I love engineers and engineering makes the world a safer place, but it’s not fool proof.

FYI, I also don’t think the damper being stiff is going to harm much other than the quality of handling and steering of our awesome Grenadiers. Nor is it the problem on the Dodge front end. My point was purely that saying it was engineered so don’t worry about it is a lazy, old and tired argument.

 

[Zimm]

Well, you did it when you said it’s engineered and should be good (Paraphrased of course)

Dodge was just an example where someone engineered something that didn’t always hold up at the end of the day. We can apply it to any time an engineer failed to account for the real world or simply missed something. Certain highly engineered Toyotas have been known to break in two. Buildings and bridges have collapsed, Rockets have blown up etc etc etc. Happens daily if not hourly. I love engineers and engineering makes the world a safer place, but it’s not fool proof.

FYI, I also don’t think the damper being stiff is going to harm much other than the quality of handling and steering of our awesome Grenadiers. Nor is it the problem on the Dodge front end. My point was purely that saying it was engineered so don’t worry about it is a lazy, old and tired argument.

View attachment 7876850

Ya I see, you’re taking the post as a stand alone post. It’s in the context of the post what it was referencing.

 

[Zimm]

I was referring to the steering box, power steering pump, hydraulic system and drag link. The OEM stabilizer looks and acts like it was designed for something off a two and a half ton truck and bigger. Lightening it up is a win-win.

In fluid dynamics, Bernoulli's principle states that an increase in the speed of a fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in pressure. Decreasing pressure (resistance) increases effiency.

My first 1,000 miles in the Grenadier was quite satisfying. Initially the steering was a problem that did not need a solution. When considering the bigger picture I changed my opinion. If this is a problem that doesn't need a solution for you, perfect.

There ought not be any death wobble in a sound design with all new parts. One gets that when they make alterations or parts wear, which they will in the natural course of time and use.

As to this stabilizer, my “engineering” comment was sarcasm. You’re right, this is quite stiff. I’m not a fan of it. But I’m not assuming it’s an accident. The stiffness isn’t part of some overarching engineering goal. It’s what they felt was necessary after quite a few miles of testing, if not, it would have been easy to spec something else. It it gonna wear out the linkages? Lol no. Its more likely the opposite. they found they needed it to prevent resonance as the linkages wore. I initially was going to remove it, but now I’m use to it, and I’ll wait to what crops up with others altered rigs. I just don’t get the feeling something that glaringly noticeable was an accident, and at 75k miles 2 years from now I don’t wanna be doing 90mph and end up in a tree for the third time.

 

[Dokatd]

There ought not be any death wobble in a sound design with all new parts. One gets that when they make alterations or parts wear, which they will in the natural course of time and use.

As to this stabilizer, my “engineering” comment was sarcasm. You’re right, this is quite stiff. I’m not a fan of it. But I’m not assuming it’s an accident. The stiffness isn’t part of some overarching engineering goal. It’s what they felt was necessary after quite a few miles of testing, if not, it would have been easy to spec something else. It it gonna wear out the linkages? Lol no. Its more likely the opposite. they found they needed it to prevent resonance as the linkages wore. I initially was going to remove it, but now I’m use to it, and I’ll wait to what crops up with others altered rigs. I just don’t get the feeling something that glaringly noticeable was an accident, and at 75k miles 2 years from now I don’t wanna be doing 90mph and end up in a tree for the third time.

I think they were thinking along the lines of saving thumbs and reducing off-road fatigue. Certainly speculation, but I also certainly understand if that’s the idea. (I like to joke that some engineer got the wheel shocks and the stabilizers specs crossed up when delivering them to the manufacturer.)

But the reality here in the USA is that these truck will see vastly more onroad vs off-road miles on average. Consider it can take a day to traverse my home state of Texas.

That’s the beauty of the FOX ATS is that you can adjust it to feel like the stock damper or like it’s almost not there. And the difference in drive ability is huge in my opinion. As things wear I can easily increase the dampening incrementally. But it been my experience that this is not necessary unless you have parts bearing failure so those should be replaced rather than adjusting stuff.

 

[Michael_in_Baja]

There ought not be any death wobble in a sound design with all new parts. One gets that when they make alterations or parts wear, which they will in the natural course of time and use.

As to this stabilizer, my “engineering” comment was sarcasm. You’re right, this is quite stiff. I’m not a fan of it. But I’m not assuming it’s an accident. The stiffness isn’t part of some overarching engineering goal. It’s what they felt was necessary after quite a few miles of testing, if not, it would have been easy to spec something else. It it gonna wear out the linkages? Lol no. Its more likely the opposite. they found they needed it to prevent resonance as the linkages wore. I initially was going to remove it, but now I’m use to it, and I’ll wait to what crops up with others altered rigs. I just don’t get the feeling something that glaringly noticeable was an accident, and at 75k miles 2 years from now I don’t wanna be doing 90mph and end up in a tree for the third time.

My initial though was that the stabilizer was intentional as well and that made me happy. After a bit more consideration, I came to the conclusion that these had to be left over from a failed Magna Steyr monster truck project.

As 90% of my off road experience will be on the rocky / sandy sometimes washed out roads of Baja Sur and only 10% will be jumping cravasses where a stabilizer like this might help not break a wrist on impact. I made the right choice for me.

 

[Bluesurf]

My unadjustable Fox Stabilizer I bought from Agile Odd Road for $269.00 is quite good. My issue is with the XXL turning radius. Many times I have to reverse and turn once or twice. It can be rough when you have cars waiting behind you. It would be very nice if the camber would have a factory fix.

 

[255/85]

Assuming maybe a 12V? It’s the later 2000’s 4x4’s that tended to fall apart. Still my choice for towing though.

'01 24V HO 6 speed but the 12 valves are tougher.

 

[Nevada Grenadier]

Assuming maybe a 12V? It’s the later 2000’s 4x4’s that tended to fall apart. Still my choice for towing though.

Having experienced the Dodge death wobble on my 1996 Dodge ram 2500 I can tell you the track bars are terrible and way underbuilt. I replaced mine years ago with a heavy duty track bar and never had a problem again. I am hesitant to replace the overly stiff factory steering stabilizer to improve the steering that I don't really have a problem with because I have heard a few reports of death wobble after the change.