Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

holdmybeer · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
why be on a forum for a product if you think it has so many faults and will never own one

Speculating ... but maybe @AWo knows his stories are valued here, by many of us, so maybe sharing something of value simply feels good.

This isn't some random Grenadier-hater who's never spent professional time on, in and under the vehicles and with key team members.

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

holdmybeer said:
Speculating ... but maybe @AWo knows his stories are valued here, by many of us, so maybe sharing something of value simply feels good.

This isn't some random Grenadier-hater who's never spent professional time on, in and under the vehicles and with key team members.

EXACTLY!! I love reading behind the scenes and developmental stories about almost anything (I am a history buff at heart); however, why all the hate? Someone that involved should be more positive in my opinion. Don’t you agree?

“This isn't some random Grenadier-hater who's never spent professional time on, in and under the vehicles and with key team members.”…….so I ask once more, why then all the negativity? Read past posts, yes some are helpful and insightful then they almost always turn the corner with the jab or insult about this issue or that. I have thought about this and now come to the believe he was a hired employee of Ineos who either was let go or they did not approve or agree with some of his ideas & now he is angry and posting negativity. You seem to champion him very much so AND are a Grenadier owner and champion as well. This is totally YOUR prerogative, but me calling him out for all the negativity on a positive pro Grenadier forum is mine. Heck, I have offered and still mean it and well absolutely hold true to an offer to meet up and have some drinks to debate/discuss this in person. No hard feelings at all on my end, this is just words on an anonymous internet board after all….BUT at the same time, I LOVE MY GRENNY’s.

Tazzieman · Oct 19, 2024

I think budding bromances should be kept offline

Let's stop speculating about IA and their perceived woes.
Get out and get your boots dirty!

AWo · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
Maybe Ineos didn’t take your advise on some of these things you discuss and now you are negative and upset with them. I

To make it short: no.

My heart lies somewhere else, I knew my very small role and I knew that other pay and decide. I was and I am fine with that.

AWo

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

Tazzieman said:
I think budding bromances should be kept offline
Let's stop speculating about IA and their perceived woes.
Get out and get your boots dirty!

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

AWo said:
To make it short: no.

My heart lies somewhere else, I knew my very small role and I knew that other pay and decide. I was and I am fine with that.

AWo

Well now I am confused as your previous LONG post explained in great detail how involved you were. How you were flying around with the top brass looking at designs and inferred, at least to me reading it, that you were a big part of the decision making, pricing, determining sales demographics, met with marketing people, had prototype test vehicles in your garage and Ineos techs came to you, etc etc. I don’t think, and maybe I am wrong, many members on this forum were invited to or attended the reveal at the famous pub with Sir. Jim. That’s a huge deal, to me at least. Now you say you only had a small roll. I’m definitely not as smart as you, so my tiny little brain can easily get confused. If I did all that you wrote l, I would say I had a major roll in this vehicle coming to fruition. Maybe you are humble, but to be honest I don’t get that from you via your posts. I just call things as I see them. Regardless, I have and will again thank you for any of your contributions to this vehicle that brings ME much joy & happiness. I am just a simple man who knows what he likes, and ME LIKEY THE GRENADIER no matter what the naysayers post about it………

I still have the right and obligation to my babies (my two Grenny’s

), to ask why all the negativity? Why not be pro Grenadier and want them to succeed and not post all the things they did wrong or things that don’t work like they should, etc etc? There is more to this story and it is only for you to tell if you want, and I have no issues if you don’t want to say what happened between you and them. That’s your personal decision. I will end with this. I have never and don’t plan on being on another auto forum, but I have to ask you, since your apparent love for Land Cruisers, are you a member of any LC forums & if so, do you post negative things about their issues given all your knowledge in the 4x4 world and please don’t tell me they don’t have any issues. Wow it’s 4am, I need to take my 2nd night time nap (I don’t sleep like most normal people) soon or I will be zombie ish in a few hours………

Tazzieman · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
it’s 4am, I need to take my 2nd night time nap (I don’t sleep like most normal people)

Are you in an hypomanic phase at present?

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

I have not been diagnosed with bi-polar, which that is a symptom of, I just have insomnia and a brain that just likes to consume and not rest much…..

Tazzieman · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
I have not been diagnosed with bi-polar, which that is a symptom of, I just have insomnia and a brain that just likes to consume and not rest much…..

I'll bet you take afternoon naps

AWo · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
How you were flying around with the top brass looking at designs and inferred, at least to me reading it, that you were a big part of the decision making, pricing, determining sales demographics, met with marketing people, had prototype test vehicles in your garage and Ineos techs came to you, etc etc. I

Read it again when you're calmed down. And do not interpret more into it as what I have written.

AWo

Roadking01 · Oct 19, 2024

To me, it doesn’t make a difference how everyone loves or hates the car. I have followed this project from the beginning and am ready to pull the trigger, but to buy a car during a new company shutdown is stepping off a cliff. Where would you get parts, who could fix the computer issues if you had them, who will honor the warranty, and so on? How do the new dealers feel after ramping up, opening stores, and spending millions of their own cash?

IMO, the new body style LR Defender has no soul and Ineos has captured what we remember from yrs ago. I hope they make it and frankly Ineos should put out a statement, but they won’t until some back room decision is made.

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

Tazzieman said:
I'll bet you take afternoon naps

Ah refreshed and ready to meet the day head on….to answer that comment, it really depends on what’s planned for the day. Being old now plus retired and afternoon naps all kind of goes together like milk & cookies/Simon Pegg & Nick Frost/eggs & bacon/Sponge Bob & Patrick/fish & chips/Chewie & Han/pb&j/Kirk & Spock/well you get it I think……..but some days I actually have a full plate and I am up all day. Even those days though, I still sleep sporadically at night. During my active military days, we could be up for 48-72 plus hours (trust me that’s possible), and whenever we were R&R or on leave still slept the same way. What about yourself, sleep all thru the night?

if so you’re one of the lucky ones…..

(I’ll get back to Grenny love on the next post I promise

)

CrazyOldMan · Oct 19, 2024

AWo said:
Read it again when you're calmed down. And do not interpret more into it as what I have written.

AWo

@Dual Grenny Guy - here’s the thing. For every American manager on my team, I want one German. Americans will tend to blow smoke up my ass. Everything is great, until it isn’t, and by then it’s too late. Germans are angxty and paranoid and everything needs to be addressed now with urgency. Which explains Martin Luther and his s****y theology. It also means they are prepared for the worst, have run through all contingencies, and don’t drop the ball. So yes, I have to “set my face like flint,” to quote the good Book, for each meeting, and yes, there is a tendency for doom and gloom and I have to rally them forward, but dammit if they don’t get the job done and done well. I am DELIGHTED there is someone like @AWo here. A treasure trove of information, history and insight, who has no skin in the game and is pretty impartial. And he’s German. It is contrary to nature, genetics, and the laws of physics that govern the Universe to expect him not to look under every rock expecting to find the worst. That’s actually a good thing - there are haters out there who do it just because they are Yota fan boys or whatever. That’s not him. So I propose we have a virtual beer together, and offer a toast and good cheer. To mud, adventure, and getting back in (mostly) one piece. Prost!

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

AWo said:
Read it again when you're calmed down. And do not interpret more into it as what I have written.

AWo

So you didn’t answer any of my questions, but instead implied I am upset which is the EXACT opposite of how I feel and even what I specifically wrote in many posts.

For a smart guy, you don’t seem to grasp what I am conveying.

I will say it again and directly to you, I don’t know you personally at all other than what you have posted about on here & have no animosity towards you at all. I have called you smart and thanked you for your involvement in a vehicle that I cherish more than once. I have said I don’t get angry at anyone on an anonymous forum that have ZERO impact on my real life. However, the same right that gives you and others to come on here and bash and talk negatively on something that I love, gives me the exact same right to respond and defend that item. It’s not rocket science (thank God as I wouldn’t be able to understand any of it, but I am sure you could). I have also offered, and it’s no BS, to meet up and share drinks and discuss/debate the Grenny in person with you. How can someone be upset doing all that? But I am just smart enough to know what you are doing……..so I’ll pivot back to some of my questions & again it’s your right not to answer, but would help me and maybe others to understand your posts:

1–were you ever fired (or just let go) by Ineos?
2–are YOU upset and need to calm down that they didn’t use all or some of your ideas?
3-are you a member of any Land Cruiser forums?
4-if yes to #3, then do you post negative comments on the LC issues/problems as well?

Auf Wiedersehen

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

CrazyOldMan said:
@Dual Grenny Guy - here’s the thing. For every American manager on my team, I want one German. Americans will tend to blow smoke up my ass. Everything is great, until it isn’t, and by then it’s too late. Germans are angxty and paranoid and everything needs to be addressed now with urgency. Which explains Martin Luther and his s****y theology. It also means they are prepared for the worst, have run through all contingencies, and don’t drop the ball. So yes, I have to “set my face like flint,” to quote the good Book, for each meeting, and yes, there is a tendency for doom and gloom and I have to rally them forward, but dammit if they don’t get the job done and done well. I am DELIGHTED there is someone like @AWo here. A treasure trove of information, history and insight, who has no skin in the game and is pretty impartial. And he’s German. It is contrary to nature, genetics, and the laws of physics that govern the Universe to expect him not to look under every rock expecting to find the worst. That’s actually a good thing - there are haters out there who do it just because they are Yota fan boys or whatever. That’s not him. So I propose we have a virtual beer together, and offer a toast and good cheer. To mud, adventure, and getting back in (mostly) one piece. Prost!

When you say “who has no skin in the game and is pretty impartial” it literally confuses me even more. To me a lot of his posts are very clear anti Ineos and bashes this feature or that part, etc etc. He has also point blank said he would not own a Grenadier and would get a Land Cruiser in its place, which is his choice 100%. However, this should be a positive place for forum members and as a two time Grenadier owner who has had ZERO issues with either (the speed warning and other sounds don’t bother me at all and I know a software fix will handle those eventually), I just get tired of reading all the negativity so why can’t I call that person out? You are a Grenadier owner and a lifetime supporter of this forum (same as me, both paid to help this site grow and continue)(if you notice almost all the negative people on here are 1-not a Grenadier owner & 2-not a lifetime supporter of this forum); thus, shouldn’t WE be on the same team?

Btw, definitely not gonna go down the path of German vs American workers. Now that’s a trap I ain’t falling into!!

CrazyOldMan · Oct 19, 2024

Dual Grenny Guy said:
When you say “who has no skin in the game and is pretty impartial” it literally confuses me even more. To me a lot of his posts are very clear anti Ineos and bashes this feature or that part, etc etc. He has also point blank said he would not own a Grenadier and would get a Land Cruiser in its place, which is his choice 100%. However, this should be a positive place for forum members and as a two time Grenadier owner who has had ZERO issues with either (the speed warning and other sounds don’t bother me at all and I know a software fix will handle those eventually), I just get tired of reading all the negativity so why can’t I call that person out? You are a Grenadier owner and a lifetime supporter of this forum (same as me, both paid to help this site grow and continue)(if you notice almost all the negative people on here are 1-not a Grenadier owner & 2-not a lifetime supporter of this forum); thus, shouldn’t WE be on the same team?

Btw, definitely not gonna go down the path of German vs American workers. Now that’s a trap I ain’t falling into!!

View attachment 7873912

This is where I would separate “negativity” from “German.” Trust me on this - decades working with German teams, engineers and production sites. They are blunt and direct in the extreme. They tend towards pessimism. And it’s often a good thing in a business, or a community, that they are. But @AWo is not negative to be negative. He’s been on the journey longer and went deeper than any of us. I don’t think this forum has to be a mutual fan club. Nobody wants trolls and bashers, but we come from all over the world and have different communication styles. Due to the somewhat inflammatory and speculative nature of this particular thread, it draws out some polarization - it’s about future contingencies. I would assume the best, particularly from proved and “long term” participants. I am willing to admit the current situation with Ineos is a little dicey, wish we weren’t here, but at the end of the day, I just roll with it and it will all land wherever it lands. And to everyone I say “pax vobiscum.”

Golgainz · Oct 19, 2024

Hey guys, i think you are going a bit offtopic with this AWo thing, keep the thread clean and talk about the ineos shutdown.
Thanks

TD5-90 · Oct 19, 2024

CrazyOldMan said:
... But @AWo is not negative to be negative....

At least you agree that there, undoubtedly, is negativity.

Undoubtedly, he's a very experienced and passionate 4x4 guy, much more experienced than I'll ever be, but the negative attitude (you tend to describe as sth positive...), even as a German engineer ( ;-) ), I simply cannot understand. Having been a (obviously long term) part of that journey, and then ignoring the GREAT outcome of the project and drowning in negativity: I simply don't get that.

And his involvement with INEOS seems to be, or at least was, multi-layered:
"Ich erinnere mich noch genau an den Tag, an dem Andreas, mein Mann, der bei der Ineos arbeitet, mich anrief und mir aufgeregt erzählte: „Jim Ratcliffe, will den Defender nachbauen."
(quote from here )
BTW, this review (written by his wife), in my view, is well balanced, factual, and objective in the best sense of the word. I agree with nearly every point that is made there, positive (Yes! There are lots of positive comments in the review!) and negative. Result: She likes it, but would rather wait till the issues are sorted. Absolutely fair, and to some extent reasonable and rational I must admit.

I assume, the real reason why all of the positivity is gone we will never know...

CrazyOldMan · Oct 19, 2024

Golgainz said:
Hey guys, i think you are going a bit offtopic with this AWo thing, keep the thread clean and talk about the ineos shutdown.
Thanks

Or how about not talking about something we know nothing about, and the talking does no good, anyhow? My daughters are in the habit of wallowing in emotional trauma from whatever they’ve seen on social media. It’s pointless. There are mountains to see, dunes to climb, fish to be caught. Let’s go hit it. If it all goes belly up - one hell of a ride. But nothing I can do or say about that, anyhow.

Dual Grenny Guy · Oct 19, 2024

I will just say one last thing about all of this and be done, UNLESS someone quotes me or asks me a question…….i don’t think I have been rude or mean or lied about anything on this forum. If I have I sincerely apologize. I have disagreed and stated MY opinions on things. We are ALL, no matter which side you are on any subject, on this forum for one reason only & that’s the Grenadier, the one vehicle that has brought me so much joy and I have owned many autos in my lifetime. Now we most definitely don’t all have to agree on any one subject, but like I have said soooooo many times, the right that gives someone to come on here and post negative comments on whatever the reason or subject or whatever, gives me the exact same right to say I don’t agree and post positivity. Lots of posters don’t like how much I LOVE this vehicle and defend it like I do. Bottom line is I have two Grenadiers sitting in my driveway right now that have brought me much joy with zero real issues (noises/beeps etc don’t bother me at all and I know will get fixed later with an update), ZERO. So all you on the fence buyers PLEASE know there are many like me and don’t just read the negative posts about this or that issue. No vehicle is perfect and never will be, but to me this comes damn close to it. I will leave you with my favorite saying…….GRENADIER LIFER RIGHT HERE….and peace be to all as well (had to google “pax vobiscum” by the way)!!

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Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

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