Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

DDG · Sep 16, 2023

Earthwatcher said:
I'm running both alongside and I assure you that the Defender beats the Grenadier for comfort, on-road drive and sophistication hands down. Off-road is harder to judge but I reckon the Grenadier would struggle to match the Defender's performance on the demanding course at Eastnor Castle, say. Now if we're looking at a trek across Africa I'd put my money on the Grenadier but that's only a hunch. Yes, the Grenadier feels more rugged and solid than the Defender, but so far my Defender has covered 13,000 trouble free miles, the Grenadier a tenth of that with its annoying software glitches. I like the Grenadier a lot and can see why drivers of the old Defender will welcome its arrival. But they shouldn't dismiss the New Defender. Its a superb car. If I could keep only one it would have to be the Defender.

This is great! Thank you for the post. I’ll be doing the same personal testing. New Defender, Grenadier, and G Wagen. No rock crawling planned, but I will take all three off road and will use them in all weather as well as towing. So far I would say the New Defender compares favorably to the G in terms of comfort and features. My G class has every option but it is “only” a G550. And my new Defender is the V8 Carpathian edition. The Defender feels quicker and far more responsive at speed, as it should with one hundred more horsepower. You sit higher in the G which adds to that tippy feeling, but it’s pretty amazing that it can be pushed pretty hard in cornering without drama. Both vehicles attract attention more than I’d like. It’s sometimes negative attention in the G. The Defender is far roomier and spacious feeling than the Mercedes. Driving the G feels like more of an occasion than the Defender, but the Land Rover imparts a large feeling of confidence. Both cars are fitted with OEM all season Continental Extreme Contact tires. The G550 has the AMG “nightline” wheels that are 20 inches. The defender sits on 22 inch five spoke alloys. Totally ridiculous for any kind of serious off roading. Both feel very solid and well put together. The Mercedes is another league above in terms of solidity. It literally feels like a bank vault on wheels. Both average between 16 and 18 miles per gallon (US gallon). I’ve been waiting a long time to be able to compare the Grenadier to the other two. My plan is to daily drive the Grenadier and put a bunch of miles on it right away. The idea of the Grenadier is what I have wanted all along; so I look forward to having access to all three. Completely ridiculous I know, but it’s been a long wait and I get antsy waiting. But I promise I will be as honest and unbiased as I can be, in any comparison. While I read a lot that no one cross shops ND and G wagens with the Ineos; that’s what I have done. Im sure one of the three will “win” but I have no plan to get rid of any of them soon.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

The V8 Defender is almost double the price of a Grenadier in Australia.
You won't see many in the outback!

DDG · Sep 16, 2023

Tazzieman said:
The V8 Defender is almost double the price of a Grenadier in Australia.
You won't see many in the outback!

I’m positive you are correct. As much as I’d love to grasp what the true Outback is like; I don’t think it’s possible without putting your life on the line in the real place. The rest of us are dressing up in costumes by comparison. I visited Australia and NZ for a few weeks fifteen years ago. Two things I took away from that trip. 1. If I ever left the US it would be for Australia. 2. How can there be so many things trying to kill you on one continent?

bigleonski · Sep 16, 2023

DDG said:
I’m positive you are correct. As much as I’d love to grasp what the true Outback is like; I don’t think it’s possible without putting your life on the line in the real place. The rest of us are dressing up in costumes by comparison. I visited Australia and NZ for a few weeks fifteen years ago. Two things I took away from that trip. 1. If I ever left the US it would be for Australia. 2. How can there be so many things trying to kill you on one continent?

We don’t have bloody great big grizzlies lions tigers etc though!!

Apart from crocs, nothing is trying to go out of its way to kill you, and for the most part they are trying to keep well out of your way. Again, apart from crocs there is nothing that wants to eat you here. Yes they can and will kill you, but generally you have to be acting like an idiot to be in that position in the first place.

I prefer to think of Australia as Darwin’s playground. It’s always trying to weed out the stupid.

In terms of the outback, again it’s not the animals but the environment that will kill you - potentially no water, no food, and hundreds of miles from help in need. You just need to be as prepared as you can.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

Humans are the most unpredictable creatures and what I fear most anywhere in the world.

DDG · Sep 16, 2023

bigleonski said:
We don’t have bloody great big grizzlies lions tigers etc though!!

Apart from crocs, nothing is trying to go out of its way to kill you, and for the most part they are trying to keep well out of your way. Again, apart from crocs there is nothing that wants to eat you here. Yes they can and will kill you, but generally you have to be acting like an idiot to be in that position in the first place.

I prefer to think of Australia as Darwin’s playground. It’s always trying to weed out the stupid.

In terms of the outback, again it’s not the animals but the environment that will kill you - potentially no water, no food, and hundreds of miles from help in need. You just need to be as prepared as you can.

I used to live in Utah. A place called Moab attracts a lot of hard core off roaders. It also attracts a lot of “hold my beer” types. I try to picture the carnage that would ensue if such types were unleashed on the Outback. I’ve carefully looked over maps of Australia. That is so much space to cross with so little human settlement. Daunting and deserving of sober respect

Cheshire cat · Sep 16, 2023

Difficult to argue with you bearing in mind you own both and can really compare side by side. In my view, fast forward five years and I would bet the Grenadier proves to be the more solid of the two vehicles.

DaveB · Sep 16, 2023

Earthwatcher said:
I'm running both alongside and I assure you that the Defender beats the Grenadier for comfort, on-road drive and sophistication hands down. Off-road is harder to judge but I reckon the Grenadier would struggle to match the Defender's performance on the demanding course at Eastnor Castle, say. Now if we're looking at a trek across Africa I'd put my money on the Grenadier but that's only a hunch. Yes, the Grenadier feels more rugged and solid than the Defender, but so far my Defender has covered 13,000 trouble free miles, the Grenadier a tenth of that with its annoying software glitches. I like the Grenadier a lot and can see why drivers of the old Defender will welcome its arrival. But they shouldn't dismiss the New Defender. Its a superb car. If I could keep only one it would have to be the Defender.

You hit the nail on the head.
The Defender is a suburb car
I just wouldn't want to keep one for 10-20 years.

DaveB · Sep 16, 2023

Tazzieman said:
The V8 Defender is almost double the price of a Grenadier in Australia.
You won't see many in the outback!

I just tried to spec up a Defender to as close to my Grenadier as possible.
Mine was a couple of thousand cheaper, which is really nothing at this price point.
I want 17" wheels but would have accepted 18", unfortunately not available.
Off road tyres not available
Safari roof not available or a glass sunroof but a cloth one is (no chance)
Bar work and sidesteps not available.
Second battery nota available.
Diff locks not available but Defender has very capable electronics.
Other points are minor.

grenadierboy · Sep 16, 2023

bigleonski said:
We don’t have bloody great big grizzlies lions tigers etc though!!

Apart from crocs, nothing is trying to go out of its way to kill you, and for the most part they are trying to keep well out of your way. Again, apart from crocs there is nothing that wants to eat you here. Yes they can and will kill you, but generally you have to be acting like an idiot to be in that position in the first place.

I prefer to think of Australia as Darwin’s playground. It’s always trying to weed out the stupid.

In terms of the outback, again it’s not the animals but the environment that will kill you - potentially no water, no food, and hundreds of miles from help in need. You just need to be as prepared as you can.

Australia = a Nietzsche playground (yeah/nah)

DCPU · Sep 16, 2023

Earthwatcher said:
Off-road is harder to judge but I reckon the Grenadier would struggle to match the Defender's performance on the demanding course at Eastnor Castle

I might struggle to find it, but there was an article on the old/new Defender works V8. Driven around Eastnor and the comment was they were using some "disused" tracks that nothing went down now since the old vehicles had been removed from the fleet.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

Really the big question is whether it could cope with this course

View: https://youtu.be/9JjmdxdUPJI?feature=shared

rovie · Sep 16, 2023

DCPU said:
I might struggle to find it, but there was an article on the old/new Defender works V8. Driven around Eastnor and the comment was they were using some "disused" tracks that nothing went down now since the old vehicles had been removed from the fleet.

Once I also drove a Series 1 through Jungle track in Eastnor Castle. I think that was its name at the time. I only remember that I had booked the Golden Tour. You got the feeling that the obstacles were set up so that the different LR models could make it. Just like it is at the German Experience Centre in Wülfrath. My wife and I booked a training with Dag Rogge. The show must go on. Currently, training courses are offered for children, from the age of 11, They are allowed to drive by themselves with the support of a trainer. That's what you call forward-looking customer loyalty. It's time for the Grenadier to come as a LEGO model.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

rovie said:
It's time for the Grenadier to come as a LEGO model.

Easily done!

MrMike · Sep 16, 2023

bigleonski said:
We don’t have bloody great big grizzlies lions tigers etc though!!

Apart from crocs, nothing is trying to go out of its way to kill you, and for the most part they are trying to keep well out of your way. Again, apart from crocs there is nothing that wants to eat you here. Yes they can and will kill you, but generally you have to be acting like an idiot to be in that position in the first place.

I prefer to think of Australia as Darwin’s playground. It’s always trying to weed out the stupid.

In terms of the outback, again it’s not the animals but the environment that will kill you - potentially no water, no food, and hundreds of miles from help in need. You just need to be as prepared as you can.

"Darwins Playground"

It's very true, love the term

rovie · Sep 16, 2023

Tazzieman said:
Easily done!
View attachment 7826990

Thank you! That's exactly what I meant!
Because his vehicle, the Land Rover Defender, already exists.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

MrMike said:
"Darwins Playground" It's very true, love the term

Charles Darwin visited my home city (Hobart) in 1836 , amongst other things discovered a volcanic vent on the banks of the river, a couple of miles away. He ascended the mountain above Hobart and found it a "severe days' climb"
He was not impressed.
It remains a severe days' climb, unless you drive , which most tourists do.

Tazzieman · Sep 16, 2023

rovie said:
Because his vehicle, the Land Rover Defender, already exists.

It begs the question , what does the New Defender actually defend these days?
The reputation of the Real Defender?

rovie · Sep 16, 2023

Tazzieman said:
It begs the question , what does the New Defender actually defend these days?
The reputation of the Real Defender?

Certainly not from my point of view!
I do not want to pass judgement on this vehicle. I have never driven in one.
I am not concerned with technical things. I just think that the footprints left by Land Rover are just too big for JLR. But that's my personal opinion.

Earthwatcher · Sep 17, 2023

DDG said:
This is great! Thank you for the post. I’ll be doing the same personal testing. New Defender, Grenadier, and G Wagen. No rock crawling planned, but I will take all three off road and will use them in all weather as well as towing. So far I would say the New Defender compares favorably to the G in terms of comfort and features. My G class has every option but it is “only” a G550. And my new Defender is the V8 Carpathian edition. The Defender feels quicker and far more responsive at speed, as it should with one hundred more horsepower. You sit higher in the G which adds to that tippy feeling, but it’s pretty amazing that it can be pushed pretty hard in cornering without drama. Both vehicles attract attention more than I’d like. It’s sometimes negative attention in the G. The Defender is far roomier and spacious feeling than the Mercedes. Driving the G feels like more of an occasion than the Defender, but the Land Rover imparts a large feeling of confidence. Both cars are fitted with OEM all season Continental Extreme Contact tires. The G550 has the AMG “nightline” wheels that are 20 inches. The defender sits on 22 inch five spoke alloys. Totally ridiculous for any kind of serious off roading. Both feel very solid and well put together. The Mercedes is another league above in terms of solidity. It literally feels like a bank vault on wheels. Both average between 16 and 18 miles per gallon (US gallon). I’ve been waiting a long time to be able to compare the Grenadier to the other two. My plan is to daily drive the Grenadier and put a bunch of miles on it right away. The idea of the Grenadier is what I have wanted all along; so I look forward to having access to all three. Completely ridiculous I know, but it’s been a long wait and I get antsy waiting. But I promise I will be as honest and unbiased as I can be, in any comparison. While I read a lot that no one cross shops ND and G wagens with the Ineos; that’s what I have done. Im sure one of the three will “win” but I have no plan to get rid of any of them soon.

Wow, testing three alongside, yup certainly trumps me, and a V8 to boot - I bet that won't be going up jungle! I agree with those who believe the Grenadier will be one that lasts and have read plenty from those questioning ND reliability but I can only say my experience has been good so far - the car was made in Austria so I wonder if that makes a difference? I guess in a year's time we'll be throwing the new Land Cruiser in to the pot. I took one of the older ones 600 miles in to the outback some years ago and it felt rock solid despite hitting some big potholes hidden by the red dust on the roads. Fast forward to today for the same trip, I'd probably still choose the LC. I also took a jar of Marmite (or was it Vegimite?), a big bunch of bananas, a loaf of bread and 16 litres of water, plus extra fuel, and an EPERB. Can't be too careful! I liked the old video of the original LR, those narrow hard compound tyres were arguably better for grip than modern wide tyres as you'd get a heavier weight to surface distribution. But not good for corners. I've seen a good few go over in ralleys over the years.

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Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

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Tazzieman

DDG

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