Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

[255/85]

For those that don’t know, Opal fuel is by my understanding an unleaded fuel with a special additive that prevents people from sniffing it and getting high - something that can kill you, and a major problem in local indigenous communities for a long time.

That's both horrifying and tremendously sad. I haven't known anyone who died from huffing for 50 years and can't begin to imagine what drives someone in this day and age to still do it. As an average middle class American I am quite sheltered I guess. Most vehicles here have plastic (rotomolded?) tanks now. They are easily pierced and drained of fuel but most of it just goes into someone else's tank. Once the thieve's gas cans are full the rest goes onto the ground.

 

[DaveB]

That's both horrifying and tremendously sad. I haven't known anyone who died from huffing for 50 years and can't begin to imagine what drives someone in this day and age to still do it. As an average middle class American I am quite sheltered I guess. Most vehicles here have plastic (rotomolded?) tanks now. They are easily pierced and drained of fuel but most of it just goes into someone else's tank. Once the thieve's gas cans are full the rest goes onto the ground.

Unfortunately like many places around the world when Europeans, Scandinavian's and British empires expanded around the world they treated the local indigenous population extremely badly.
Australia was no different and in many ways worse.
Alcohol was devastating to them and so in many communities it was/is banned.
That left them to then seek alternatives sniffing fuel and paint/glue/.
Many still live in truly appalling conditions.

Many are managing to live better lives.

 

[Tazzieman]

What did you order again Tazzie?

JAWA Stealth 12

 

[bigleonski]

JAWA Stealth 12

My neighbour is looking at the same one - around Christmas purchase. Feedback appreciated.

 

[CB]

A million miles testing for the vehicle body, suspension, chassis and drivetrain - yes but I doubt there were ever any significant miles of testing for CarPlay or puddle lights. I never saw a working example of CarPlay in any of the PT vehicles I test drove so this was ALWAYS going to be a wait and see feature. Most (but not all) of the issues people are griping about are software or convenience systems that sit on top of the basic vehicle. Phone volume, cameras, warning chimes for seatbelts etc are not things that really benefit from any length of testing. They just need to be properly installed and programmed. Water ingress issues people have reported are also all related to safari window or door seals or drain hole blockages. The "boot wash" feature is also not actually water ingress into the vehicle, but an easily corrected issue with the fitting of the outer door seal, which I checked and did myself at the dealership when I collected my vehicle. It's nothing major.

Some of the actual mechanical or configuration complaints like fuel capacity or method of diff-lock operation are about design, not faults. Very very few non-software or convenience issues I've seen reported here are actual mechanical or structural faults. Power steering pumps, dodgy pins in transfer box selectors, leaking A/C hoses or condensate drains etc. are a few examples of real manufacturing defects. But we have a poll here and so far of 140 responses, 120 have been minor or no problems at all. Pretty remarkable for a first generation vehicle from a new manufacturer in my opinion.

Believe me, I am not trying to disparage the vehicle or the company and I do plan on ordering one. I placed a reservation shortly after reservations opened in the US. I drove the vehicle and liked it so much I cancelled my LR Defender order. There is absolutely nothing else available now or in the near future (Jeep, Lr Defender, M G wagon, Toyota Land Cruiser etc.) that comes close to what I have been looking for in this type of vehicle. However, because of the numerous issues, which require visits to the the dealer, I must wait until the majority are resolved prior to delivery, or the service network in the US is comprehensive. The closest proposed dealer to me is at least 4 hours away. I can live with that if loaner vehicles are available, however, if not I must wait. When I drove the vehicle, the rep stated Ineos was working on a service agreement with BOSH service centers here in the US. I hope that is still in the works and will be revealed when the dealer/service network is revealed.

 

[Tazzieman]

My neighbour is looking at the same one - around Christmas purchase. Feedback appreciated.

We ordered about 3 weeks ago. No indication of delivery date though. Perhaps before Christmas?
I've learned the hard way to be patient about these sorts of things

 

[lightning]

Believe me, I am not trying to disparage the vehicle or the company and I do plan on ordering one. I placed a reservation shortly after reservations opened in the US. I drove the vehicle and liked it so much I cancelled my LR Defender order. There is absolutely nothing else available now or in the near future (Jeep, Lr Defender, M G wagon, Toyota Land Cruiser etc.) that comes close to what I have been looking for in this type of vehicle. However, because of the numerous issues, which require visits to the the dealer, I must wait until the majority are resolved prior to delivery, or the service network in the US is comprehensive. The closest proposed dealer to me is at least 4 hours away. I can live with that if loaner vehicles are available, however, if not I must wait. When I drove the vehicle, the rep stated Ineos was working on a service agreement with BOSH service centers here in the US. I hope that is still in the works and will be revealed when the dealer/service network is revealed.

lt took Land Rover about a year to sort out the various issues with the new Defender. Mainly software and trim problems

 

[Ineos1NZ]

Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

I was one of the first to order the Grenadier several years ago, as I was so pleased by the announcement of its release. I admired the concept and the way Sir James Ratcliffe went against the grain.

I was fully aware that, as a new company with a new car, there would be issues, and indeed, I encountered problems when placing my order, and my vehicle still lacks a number of optional components.

That is tolerable, but the fact that they refuse to communicate with me or my dealer with either no response or meaningless gibberish is intolerable.

I am aware that in the grand scheme of things this is unimportant, but this is an excellent illustration.

A couple of days ago I received an email informing me that I could claim my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket. I was ecstatic, so I went to order my jacket. However, when I went to the website to claim my jacket, I was unable to do so because the information provided did not work. I reread the email and used the email address they said to use if you have any issues, but the email bounced. I took photos of the scene and a copy of the non-delivery response and wrote a lengthy explanation to Ineos Customer Service. After several emails back and forth, I received the following response: " For now, we are having some problems with our website, We do apologize for any inconvenience caused, and we are grateful for your patience.”. I told them I already knew it was defective.

The next day it rained, and the side of the vehicle facing the prevailing wind and rain was the passenger side. I opened the passenger door and it was full of water contained in by the door seals. I believe the rain got in because the window seal failed to do its job, so I emailed and rang my dealer, and the response was deafening silence. I just felt he was embarrassed and could not add anything, so he said nothing. As you can imagine, I have had numerous conversations with them, but I do not hold them accountable because I believe they are as frustrated as I am by the dearth of a meaningful response.

I love the vehicle and the design concept; it drives well for what it is designed to do, it has character and is purposeful.

My dilemma is that the lack of meaningful engagement from Ineo Grenadier will destroy my enjoyment of the vehicle and make it extremely difficult if not impossible to formulate a resolution strategy.

The question is whether to return the vehicle for a full refund and search for another vehicle, or to keep the vehicle.

So did you return it or keep it?

 

[Kamalasound]

I am considering returning it if they dont solve our engine problem asap. It's been 19 days since we had to stop the car.

 

[Roach]

I’ve glanced through this thread and its very concerning for me/family. We have three preorder (US) that are likely on the way or maybe stateside. I understand it’s a first year coupled with new brand but It’s sounding like waiting and kicking this can down the road might be a better fit for us. Myself (and kids) are coming from very reliable brands and the IG sounds like it’s great for an enthusiast rock crawler but 98% of our driving is on the streets or dirt roads so MPG, steering, fit/finish, safety, reliability and customer service are more important than conquering a trail. I know….it’s personal.

Is there a list of issues compiled someplace? If we move forward I’d love to have a checklist if we move forward to review before accepting the car.

Conflicted

 

[Shopkeep]

I’ve glanced through this thread and its very concerning for me/family. We have three preorder (US) that are likely on the way or maybe stateside. I understand it’s a first year coupled with new brand but It’s sounding like waiting and kicking this can down the road might be a better fit for us. Myself (and kids) are coming from very reliable brands and the IG sounds like it’s great for an enthusiast rock crawler but 98% of our driving is on the streets or dirt roads so MPG, steering, fit/finish, safety, reliability and customer service are more important than conquering a trail. I know….it’s personal.

Is there a list of issues compiled someplace? If we move forward I’d love to have a checklist if we move forward to review before accepting the car.

Conflicted

You have doubts but have three on order??? Cancel two, get one and suck it and see. If it’s great then order another two, if it’s not then sell one and move on.

 

[Tazzieman]

the IG sounds like it’s great for an enthusiast rock crawler but 98% of our driving is on the streets

Rock crawling - was not designed for that.
Street driving - the turning circle and rear vision camera from the 1980s will challenge your family.

 

[Roach]

@Tazzieman great point. I hadn’t thought about turning radius, LCA and rear view.

@Shopkeep possibly but the dilemma would be I wouldn’t want to do that to the kids nor my wife (the three drivers).

Lots to think about. O

 

[James]

I’ve glanced through this thread and its very concerning for me/family. We have three preorder (US) that are likely on the way or maybe stateside. I understand it’s a first year coupled with new brand but It’s sounding like waiting and kicking this can down the road might

first thing is, even though I have a pretty much problem free grenadier for months now, and know several other people with the same, reading through a thread like this makes the situation seem bad. That;s the psychology of social media and bad news having long legs.
most people are not having problems of any consequence, and are absolutely loving the car. I mean really loving it; theres nothing like it, and im coming from a real defender.
but, ordering 3, for largely city use does seem a bit of a peculiar choice. As stated above, it is no rock crawler, or even technical 4wd machine, but it is an overlander/utility/work vehicle.
maybe, as above, get one and see how you go? Or if you feel risk averse, wait. I suppose it depends on what drew you guys so strongly to the proposition in the first place.
good luck!

 

[Shopkeep]

@Tazzieman great point. I hadn’t thought about turning radius, LCA and rear view.

@Shopkeep possibly but the dilemma would be I wouldn’t want to do that to the kids nor my wife (the three drivers).

Lots to think about. O

By the time they land Stateside I would think most of the issues and bugs will have either been sorted or they will have fixes ready to go for the dealers to implement prior to delivery. There will be less wailing and gnashing of teeth than when the European early adopters first got theirs.

 

[DaveB]

@Tazzieman great point. I hadn’t thought about turning radius, LCA and rear view.

@Shopkeep possibly but the dilemma would be I wouldn’t want to do that to the kids nor my wife (the three drivers).

Lots to think about. O

Surely if your kids are old enough to drive they should be buying their own vehicle, and have left home.

 

[lightning]

l think you'll be fine with the Grenadier by the time you get yours.
l've been on the forum for a while and there were quite a few issues at first but many people are now either taking delivery of their vehicles issue free, or they've sorted out the snags.

Many issues were caused by software glitches. l didn't read about any actually breaking down.

There's been a few issues with door seals and fit/finish.

The Grenadier is currently starting to arrive with customers in the USA. If you are still worried, stay on the forum and see how they get on with theirs.

lt doesn't bother me at all.
I would have one tomorrow if the figures added up. l have a new Defender which is fabulous and has always been fault free but l would love a Grenadier.

 

[ddv]

I’ve glanced through this thread and its very concerning for me/family. We have three preorder (US) that are likely on the way or maybe stateside. I understand it’s a first year coupled with new brand but It’s sounding like waiting and kicking this can down the road might be a better fit for us. Myself (and kids) are coming from very reliable brands and the IG sounds like it’s great for an enthusiast rock crawler but 98% of our driving is on the streets or dirt roads so MPG, steering, fit/finish, safety, reliability and customer service are more important than conquering a trail. I know….it’s personal.

Is there a list of issues compiled someplace? If we move forward I’d love to have a checklist if we move forward to review before accepting the car.

Conflicted

The difficulty with compiling a useful list of issues is working out what represents an issue. If one person has experienced a fault does that represent an issue? If a few people have mentioned something but most haven’t is that an issue? Is a problem someone experiences due to the grenadier or the person not understanding how things work (quite a few issues I’ve seen mentioned appear to be due to this). If a person experienced a fault but these have now been rectified (e.g. random error warnings that do not represent substantive faults) is this an issue? Other concerns that a person might have is use specific. I think it is useful to hear what people have to say but it is very easy to misconstrue these without a full context and to get an overstated view of the extent to which something is .’an issue’. That’s why I am very cautious in how much weight I put on matters that are raised.

 

[Roach]

Thanks all and love the input!

@ddv great point. I wrongly categorized everything in my first reply as a "problem" when clearly some things (MPG, turning radius, etc) are based on specs and how they relate to my experiences. I always feel more comfortable putting things into a spreadsheet (smile) so I'll need to break the items out into categories.

@lightning great advice, I certainly will stick with the forum and I will likely go as far as taking delivery of at least one...the kids have to decide if its the best fit for themselves and their families. I suspect that all three will arrive on the same boat and be some of the first in the US so I'm not certain how much data I can gather from US users but will be watching.

@DaveB kids are more than capable of buying their own...its more about helping and having fun with warm hands vs cold

@Shopkeep I think you're right. I would add that IG should be all over you early adopters...I would think they would come to your house and give you a big hug/pint every quarter (JK but it would be nice)

@James agree. I have to sort out the "form vs function" and as you said; "ordering 3, for largely city use does seem a bit of a peculiar choice". Backstory....the family grew up camping as it was affordable and allowed us to see the sights of the back country, national parks, great beyond. Now my use case is more about navigating long highway drives, maybe a bit of overland, a dash of roughing it, but more often finding a shady spot at the Trader Joe's parking lot. What intrigued me about the IG was coming from an 84 LandCruiser that we bought new and the family trips...maybe nostalgia is a factor for my wife and I.

 

[Tjhappel]

@Tazzieman great point. I hadn’t thought about turning radius, LCA and rear view.

@Shopkeep possibly but the dilemma would be I wouldn’t want to do that to the kids nor my wife (the three drivers).

Lots to think about. O

First world issues! Gotta love it…. they have a year to sort issues before your 3 come in luckily