Anyone else considering returning their Ineos Grenadier?

[johnp]

Having read the full message. Not convinced it is genuine and would withstand scrutiny. Can you say which dealership you all dealt with?

The dealership is Days in South Wales and is 100% true.

 

[johnp]

beware seagull users with single-digit number of posts

fly in, squawk a lot, shit on everyone, fly out

I have better things to do than waste my time frequently posting on on a forum, hence few posts. I responded to someone asking the same question. I've simply stated SOME of the facts and not trying to shit on anyone. If you are happy with your car good on you mate

 

[johnp]

The dealership is Days in South Wales and is 100% true.

If you are still not convinced you can message Chris Sullivan of Days Motor Group who can confirm there were four of us who all placed deposits with them. Two of which were delivered and two cancelled.

 

[DaBull]

Huzzah, @DaBull

Will you keep both? (IG and ND) ... best of both worlds

Hi Sam, As much as I would like to keep both, the New Defender will be sold after I take possession of the Grenadier and get it outfitted.
It will help offset the costs of the Grenadier. DaBull

 

[Tom D]

I think there are two kinds of grenadier buyer. Those who are coming from old defenders or IFS pickups ”utes’.. and those who are coming from luxury cars like JLR products Merc BMW etc. or perhaps those new to ‘real’ 4x4’s.

If you’re a tradie like me coming from an old defender then the grenadier feels great, step out of an X5 or a discovery and then maybe not so great…
I am prepared to forgive some of the electronic glitches as I am hopeful that these will be fixed soon. Others it would seem are not. And to be fair to them, why should they? Other brands manage to bring cars to market glitch free, many don’t but hey ho..

I see the grenadier as a more luxurious version of the old defender / Land cruiser. And in that respect it ticks all the boxes.
Some see it as a rival to a discovery / defender / X5, in which case it has several shortcomings.

 

[lightning]

Well said. l have the new Defender but the only thing stopping me from trading it for a Grenadier is the price.

l was ready to order at £50,000 with a dealer visit booked and a buyer for my Defender.

Sadly l hadn't actually placed a Grenadier order and suddenly the vehicle was £65,000.

I will have to wait for the second hand market to open up.

 

[DesertGecko]

Have you "pushed the button" yet or are you still waiting & assessing. If so, have you given yourself a timeframe?

Since the price rises have been so aggressive I've made the call to keep running the Defender for a few more years. It's just too much money to do product testing. I really only do trips with my car and I just can't afford to be sorting someone's bugs in the middle of nowhere. The focus of my holidays should be holidays. The defender is old and the comfort is poor but it's reliable and it does what I need. I think age will force it's replacement, but for the moment it's running great. It's pretty low mileage.

At this stage in my life paying the amount they are now charging for a car that I only really drive a few times a year is insane, and especially an immature one that needs the bugs sorted.

Never say never but something will need to change to force a reconsideration. At those prices there are lots of alternatives. Perhaps in a few years the bugs will be sorted and Ineos will have proven their ability to support the cars and the price will be justified.

Just about to head off for a double desert crossing. Will be 8 for the Defender.

 

[bigleonski]

So is there any precedent for a car company listing a model for a certain dollar figure after review and then amending the price backwards due to a slowdown in sales as a result? Genuine question. I recall reading a comment here in the last day or so where a dealer said orders have been rather nonexistent since the last price rise.

 

[bigleonski]

Just about to head off for a double desert crossing. Will be 8 for the Defender.

@DesertGecko have fun mate - where are you heading? Anywhere out of the ordinary?

 

[DCPU]

So is there any precedent for a car company listing a model for a certain dollar figure after review and then amending the price backwards due to a slowdown in sales as a result?

I bought the original Lotus Exige shortly after it was announced and signed a sales agreement for full retail price with the dealer. Usual spiel from them that production was limited (it was - only 600 were made), demand high, their allocation low. When I went to collect it and pay the final sum, it had gone down by 10% for exactly the reason you state.

 

[Jeremy996]

So is there any precedent for a car company listing a model for a certain dollar figure after review and then amending the price backwards due to a slowdown in sales as a result? Genuine question. I recall reading a comment here in the last day or so where a dealer said orders have been rather nonexistent since the last price rise.

Yes, Henry Ford and the Model T. He could afford to and did reduce the price during the production run.

Pricing expensive goods like big 4x4s is a black art, do you buy market share and try and exclude other market makers, or do you sell it for as much as the market will stand to maximise profits?

 

[Cheshire cat]

If you are still not convinced you can message Chris Sullivan of Days Motor Group who can confirm there were four of us who all placed deposits with them. Two of which were delivered and two cancelled.

Apologies for doubting you. If the Grenadier did not work for you, fully support your decision. Your money, your choice.

 

[lightning]

I hope you get the issues sorted with the two Grenadiers you took delivery of.

lt seems that the vehicle gets better with use, in some cases. lt wouldn't stop me from buying one.

l am sure that in time all the issues will be resolved

 

[alvan]

I return to the considerations made above, in general terms. I honestly can't understand this kind of question, in a forum that should be dedicated to GRENADIER OWNERS or future ones. Reading some questions or posts of this kind, I have the feeling that in some post a good amount of provocations, in a forum in which I would expect, among owners or future ones, just requests for advice and offers of solutions. There is in some post a suspicious climate of teasing, insinuations and alleged abandonments surrounding the Grenadier. If I didn't own a car and found horrible flaws in it or judged it badly, the last thing I would do is hang out on a forum of OWNERS or future ones. Wouldn't it be appropriate to give less space to this kind of post which doesn't seem relevant to the title of the forum? I think that if this climate were to continue, I would abandon the forum, because it is completely far from the pleasure I feel every day in using the Grenadier as my main car and with 5000km after two months... Sorry for my rant...

 

[Tom D]

If the electronic issues persist after the software update I would chuck a load of money at getting someone to reprogram the car to my liking, i.e. switching a load of the annoying stuff off. I wouldn’t return it as it is exactly what I wanted from a mechanical and practical point of view. I hope I don't have to do that mind you. Fingers crossed the software update will fix 95% of the reported issues.

When someone comes up with a decent OBD app that will allow users to clear faults and get the vehicle home I will be the first to buy…

 

[Marks]

I received my Grenadier on Tuesday and I am very happy with it. My former car was a Disco 2 which is not comparable to the new one. The Grenadier is so much better in every aspect...

 

[lightning]

I return to the considerations made above, in general terms. I honestly can't understand this kind of question, in a forum that should be dedicated to GRENADIER OWNERS or future ones. Reading some questions or posts of this kind, I have the feeling that in some post a good amount of provocations, in a forum in which I would expect, among owners or future ones, just requests for advice and offers of solutions. There is in some post a suspicious climate of teasing, insinuations and alleged abandonments surrounding the Grenadier. If I didn't own a car and found horrible flaws in it or judged it badly, the last thing I would do is hang out on a forum of OWNERS or future ones. Wouldn't it be appropriate to give less space to this kind of post which doesn't seem relevant to the title of the forum? I think that if this climate were to continue, I would abandon the forum, because it is completely far from the pleasure I feel every day in using the Grenadier as my main car and with 5000km after two months... Sorry for my rant...

lt's the same on any car forum. There were (and still are) people on the various Defender forums and particularly Youtube who are still saying the vehicle is "crap" but they've never driven one, let alone owned one.

l always reply with "have you ever owned or driven a new Defender, to arrive at this opinion"

l've never had a reply except for one where the person thought he was justified to criticise the Defender even though he'd never driven one.

l guess in a free world, he is. But you don't need to share that viewpoint. Look at reviews and comments from actual owners to get an idea of what the vehicle is really like.

 

[NQ94]

So is there any precedent for a car company listing a model for a certain dollar figure after review and then amending the price backwards due to a slowdown in sales as a result? Genuine question. I recall reading a comment here in the last day or so where a dealer said orders have been rather nonexistent since the last price rise.

Ford and Tesla dropped prices on electric models earlier this year.

 

[DDG]

It bums me out to read about anyone having a hard time with their new Grenadier. I’m sure it’s very frustrating and for someone who relies on the vehicle it has to be aggravating. It’s a tough crowd around here. Those who have owned OG Defenders are immune to small problems. It’s part of owning those. For those who are having bad luck with their new vehicle, we understand your frustration. Hang in there just a bit longer if you can. Keep good records of the problems you’ve encountered. I have to believe that the manufacturer is aware of the issues. It never feels that way when you’re looking directly at it in your driveway. They will get it straightened out…and the combined experience of the forum will fix the rest.

 

[Earthwatcher]

I'm running both alongside and I assure you that the Defender beats the Grenadier for comfort, on-road drive and sophistication hands down. Off-road is harder to judge but I reckon the Grenadier would struggle to match the Defender's performance on the demanding course at Eastnor Castle, say. Now if we're looking at a trek across Africa I'd put my money on the Grenadier but that's only a hunch. Yes, the Grenadier feels more rugged and solid than the Defender, but so far my Defender has covered 13,000 trouble free miles, the Grenadier a tenth of that with its annoying software glitches. I like the Grenadier a lot and can see why drivers of the old Defender will welcome its arrival. But they shouldn't dismiss the New Defender. Its a superb car. If I could keep only one it would have to be the Defender.