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Winch recovery kit

Logsplitter

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Jean Mercier

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You need that green 5T recovery ring ro fit in the end of your winch rope when using So I’ll be getting one of those and I’ll be adding another snatch/recovery ring to my kit for a double line pull if needed. If you go to the red winch site you can put that kit together yourself for a cheaper price than Ineos are charging. Plenty of other quality brands around also. Those soft shackles in the kit look substantial though but can’t see a direct replacement on the red winch site as nothing in that colour and I don’t know what size they are.
Here you have an idea of the size, in cm and inches ;) , what a nice guy I am no? :devilish:

[EDITED] About 60 cm (24 inch) length and 2 cm thick ('a bit less than an inch).
20230625_122949.jpg
20230625_123049.jpg
 

globalgregors

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I have ordered the Winch, although I will freely admit that I have never really ever had to recover any of my vehciles before - despite two previous vehicles having WARN winches fitted.
Would someone in the know like to suggest an alternate recovery kit of what you should buy - to suit the front Red Winch - using soft shackles, winch extensions, rings, tree protectors etc.
It appears to me as though the Red Winch kit doesn't cover all the bases, and is quite expensive.
I know there will always be alternate opinions, but there should be a basic kit that everyone could agree on.
I think the Red Winches kit is pretty reasonably priced. Nonetheless I’ve put a kit together from Saber Offroad which is sat in the home office awaiting use. Quality looks to be excellent. This after using ARB kit in the past and just random rigging equipment back in the day.

The concept of a ’basic kit’ is maybe more of a decision than it seems. Kinetic recovery yes/no? Double+ line pull yes/no? For what terrain (lot’s of trees/other vehicles/anchor points OR potentially distant anchoring point)? Long distance towing yes/no?

Perhaps the most basic kit (winch recoveries only) would include:
  1. Recovery ring or winch shackle
  2. Winch extension rope
  3. Utility rope (tree protector, bridle)
  4. 2 x soft shackles
Then again the basic recovery kit on the Aust Army G-Wagons is I believe a sleeved tow rope, which suggests Plan A for those guys is using the column (convoy) itself for recoveries. So perhaps question number one is whether you’re equipping assuming other vehicles are about or for self/single vehicle recovery also.
 

Davman

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I think the Red Winches kit is pretty reasonably priced. Nonetheless I’ve put a kit together from Saber Offroad which is sat in the home office awaiting use. Quality looks to be excellent. This after using ARB kit in the past and just random rigging equipment back in the day.

The concept of a ’basic kit’ is maybe more of a decision than it seems. Kinetic recovery yes/no? Double+ line pull yes/no? For what terrain (lot’s of trees/other vehicles/anchor points OR potentially distant anchoring point)? Long distance towing yes/no?

Perhaps the most basic kit (winch recoveries only) would include:
  1. Recovery ring or winch shackle
  2. Winch extension rope
  3. Utility rope (tree protector, bridle)
  4. 2 x soft shackles
Then again the basic recovery kit on the Aust Army G-Wagons is I believe a sleeved tow rope, which suggests Plan A for those guys is using the column (convoy) itself for recoveries. So perhaps question number one is whether you’re equipping assuming other vehicles are about or for self/single vehicle recovery also.
https://saberoffroad.com/product/8k-ultimate-recovery-kit/

What about this one?

$872 AUD on Ebay - Free Shipping
 

globalgregors

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https://saberoffroad.com/product/8k-ultimate-recovery-kit/

What about this one?

$872 AUD on Ebay - Free Shipping
I got the 12K one with an extra ring as on a long expedition we’ll inevitably be closer to GVM and I have a thing about preferring double-line/burton rigs. But yes, a bunch of the stuff is the same across the two kits and as I say, the quality looks(!) great. As yet untested in the field however… it’s incredibly light when one considers the use cases it supports, at least on paper.
 

AWo

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This did cost me 363 € including 21% VAT. I ordered it together with my car in September 2022. I guess prices have risen.
General statement: You can consider each properly tested and marked equipment as equal safe to use, if it is not damaged and used properly. In this case, all equipment is safe. Problems arise on the car side, on unseen damage of equipment and miss-use. Everybody can by a 12 t truck and start a recovery with 12 t on the rope without a proper education. That's where things get worse.

1. It is not marked properly. If I interpret the word "Breakstrain" right, it is the breaking load of that gear. That should not be noted on recovery gear. You only can assume that the safety factor is 1:2 which leads to 5,5 and 6 t working load limit (WLL), respectively. The problem is, that untrained people tend to see the breaking load as the limit, they can use. So 8 t (even if that is not reached) is fine! The thing is, exceeding the WLL once, reduces the breaking load to an unknown value somewhat lower that 11 t or 12 t. And no one knows what the new breaking load is. That also shifts the WLL and everytime the new lowered WLL is exceeded that process continues until the rope breaks.
It is a safety factor only to note the WLL. The safety margin, breaking limit etc. is completely uninteresting. But manufacturers tend to print the braking load onto their gear, as these are higher numbwers, suggesting stronger gear. That is simply wrong.

Do the ropes show pictures on how they can be used and how the WLL will be affected? If not, how will you know? That is an important information. See the pictures. That is a proper mark which shows the usage and the effect on the WLL (BTW, if that mark is lost, you must discard such a rope in professional use in Germany).

WLL_Rundschlinge.jpgSP_GrubeBergeset-501-e1567166614229.jpg

Prices: a propely marked rope with FTF 6 (FTF is a mark, that improves the WLL mark as the customer doesn't have to calculate anymore and 6 means taht this is suitable for a 6 t winch in any possible use case): 17,90 Euro inkl. VAT. In 4 m 32 Euro inkl. VAT. These round ropes can be used on trees, Three of them and you're fine: 96 Euros inkl. VAT

2. I do not like the friction pulley because if plastic winch ropes don't like one thing then this is heat and friction. Yes, they do work. Yes, people measured the temperature, it inceased and didn't kill the rope. But why accept that, when there are frictionless solutions which in additon offer a bigger radius, as well. While a steel rope resists too small radiuses, plastic ropes don't. The smaller the radius, the more load has to be taken by the outer fibers and thereby by less fibers. If I buy a car for thousands of Euros but do not spend money for the best and safest recovery equipment the proportionality is wrong, in my opinion.

3. Can't read what is written on the steel shackles, but they seem to be somewhat small? What are they for? Good and fine steel shackles with a 6.75 t WLL, under 10 Euros.

4. Same as under 1 for the soft shackles. Not properly marked from what I can recon. Same applies here, if not properly educated, people may use soft shackles on sharp edges or too small radiuses. A propber makr won't help here, of course. They would be fine for me if the user knows how to use them and if they were marked properly. Good is the heat and friction insulation. Soft shackles tend to be expensive. A FTF 2,5 t is up to 50 Euros. I add 80 Euros for each. I know all the discussions about safety regarding steel and soft shackles (things flying areound, blabla) and we discussed that with professional experts in ground based recovery (see below) many times and the conclusion was very clear: steel shackles are more secure because they are easy to handle and you can see immediately, if they have been damaged. That is not the case with soft shackles. Of course, if you use them in the correct way and if has not an unsees damage, they are as secure as steel shackles.

Background of my opinion: We offered offroad trainings including what material do you need for a safe recovery ourselves for customers. The part of safe recovery was created and held by a head forester from the Black Forest. He is responsible for all ground based recovery gear (4x4 recovery falls into that category) and lifting gear. He educates his people in the proper use and he is also responsibe for checking that gear and dispose it, if necessary. He is involved in development and test of equipment on the recovery gear manufacturer site and got involved by emergency services in his region, when tricky recoveries needs to be done (like loaded trucks which sunk down to their ladder frame in soft lime powder). I participated in his workshops often, and learned.

@emax
If interested, I can give a small workshop in recovery equipment at the D-A-C-H Grenadie meet up in October. I use the content of my teachers training.

AWo
 
Last edited:

emax

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If interested, I can give a small workshop in recovery equipment at the D-A-C-H Grenadie meet up in October. I use the content of my teachers training.
That's a great offer! (y)

I'll post it there and I'm quite sure it will be very much appreciated.
 

DCPU

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I see the red winch 10mm soft shackle has a minimum breaking strain of 16825 kg .
And the bow shackles are "Drop forged, high strength steel with a WLL rating (Working Load Limit) of 4 Tonnes / 4000kg / 8,800 llbs"
 
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globalgregors

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Aaah, this is why I love this forum.
I bought the 12K one for $760 off the web (last one)- looks a great kit, thanks @globalgregors and @Logsplitter

Now I suppose, just to find a ring/hook that connects up the winch rope itself.
Ah yes, I ended up here paired with one of these spools. All intended to maximise life of the winch line.

 

Christoph

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I saw no hook in the winch kit from Ineos / Red Winches. Wouldn't we want a hook fitted directly to the winch line, something like this, to connect all the other stuff?:

1687961718485.png
 

Lollo050968

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AWO could better tell you, normally you put a recovery ring direct at the rope, and than soft shackle….. hard hooks are out :)
 

Logsplitter

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AWO could better tell you, normally you put a recovery ring direct at the rope, and than soft shackle….. hard hooks are out :)
Agreed this red winch rope loop has been spliced to suit the red winch “snatch ring 5T” you would then use a soft shackle to attach to your attachment point ,extension rope or tree strop. This closed loop system is much safer than using a hook attached to the end of your winch line.
 

AWo

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I saw no hook in the winch kit from Ineos / Red Winches. Wouldn't we want a hook fitted directly to the winch line, something like this, to connect all the other stuff?:

View attachment 7818339
You can mount a hook or just use the eyelet. Depending on the radius of the eyelet I would not use a soft shackle with it. If it is too small the soft shackle gets under heavy stress.

I still use a hook and steel shackles. Because it doesn't fell off and there is no risk of opening when there is no tension on the rope.

AWo
 

DCPU

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Davman

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AnD3rew

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I have collected my kit over time and it has multiple brands my one rule is buy decent brands.
I would consider a basic kit. Without winch:
- a long handled shovel (in 90% of situations it should be the first option and often the best, if you can dig out or track build and then drive out it puts the least strain on the vehicle and introduces the least additional risks.)
- Maxtrax x2 (as above plus these)
- A kinetic recovery rope
- min 2 soft shackles
- gloves

Then with a winch the above plus.
- a hook, winch ring or recovery ring for the winch loop
- a tree trunk protector

Then add as required
- a couple of rated bow shackes
- extra soft shackles
- a 5m bridle/equaliser strap
- a winch rope extension 20-30m
- X-lock for shortening extension rope
- a couple of recovery rings or snatch block
 
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