Winch recovery kit

[AWo]

here’s how I would attach a bridal strap to a vehicle , both recovery points are taking some strain even at an angled pull agreed though that a protection sleeve would help protect the strap at the connection point of the tow rope View attachment 7818455

Sorry, but I need to come back to this.
.
Something irritated me and now I found what. When I look at the shackles I see two different types. Both can be used in the way you use it regarding the rope (just looking at the rope) However, people looking at this should be aware, that the red shackle is a chain shackle which should only used in a straight pull. That is not the case here if you take the car mountpoint into the setup. The silver anchor shackle can be used to pull at an angle or with two ropes attached to it, so that is fine.

If I look at the way the shackles are used at the car, I see a missuse. The shackle should have nearly no space to move with its pin to the one or the other end of the shackle eyes. In other words, the metall eyes where the shackles are mounted to are to thin and the shackle will be in a position like you see it at the red shackle. That is not ok.

To have your setup right, you should use two anchor shackles mounted with their body to the mounting eyes of the car and mount the relative breadth ropes at the pins. When you pull the anchor shackles will be pulled at an angle (also changing the WLL loosing less than 30% at a maximum here), but that is ok for them.

I would not use chain shackles as you not gain a straight pull here end to end.

This setup in the picture therefore just needs to use anchor shackles turned by 180 degrees.

AWo

 

[Logsplitter]

Sorry, but I need to come back to this.
.
Something irritated me and now I found what. When I look at the shackles I see two different types. Both can be used in the way you use it regarding the rope. However, people looking at this should be aware, that the red shackle is a chain shackle which should only used in a straight pull. That is the case here. The silver anchor shackle can be used to pull at an agle or with two ropes attached to it.

If I look at the way the shackles are used at the car, I see a missuse. The shackle should have nearly no space to move with its pin to the one or the other end of the shackle eyes. In other words, the metall eyes where the shackles are mounted to are to thin and the shackle will be in a position like you see it at the red shackle. That is not ok.

To have your setup right, you should use two anchor shackles mounted with their body to the mounting eyes of the car and mount the relative breadth ropes at the pins. When you pull the anchor shackles will be pulled at an angle (also changing the WLL loosing less than 30% at a maximum here), but that is ok for them. As the mounting points of the car are so thin and the chain shackle can move freely it would align itself to a straight pull, as well. So also fine.

This setup in the picture therefore just needs to use the shackles turned by 180 degrees.

AWo

Agreed on that. . The recovery points on the Grenadier allow for a different set up with the shackle body against the recovery point to allow articulation and the pin of the shackle with the bridle strap in. Just a picture I grabbed of the internet and I really should have looked at the shackles. We’ll spotted
thanks

 

[DCPU]

This setup in the picture therefore just needs to use anchor shackles turned by 180 degrees.

AWo

The practical problem with that is that many times the ear of the shackle with not fit through the fixed eye.

Additionally, it's could be seen as bad practise as the bow of the shackle inevitably won't centre on the fixed eye and you risk side loading the shackle pin.

Packing the shackle pin is the way to go ~ although I've never seen anyone do this, or even be equipped to do it in a recreational recovery:

 

[AWo]

@DCPU
Absolutely right. That leaves us with the question if these thin mounting points are the right choice, especially when they might be pulled together and bend/break.

AWo

 

[DCPU]

And then we get into the debate of whether they are recovery points or just tie down or lashing points?

 

[Tazzieman]

And then we get into the debate of whether they are recovery points or just tie down or lashing points?

"Oh she'll be right mate ! Just hook 'er up willya"

 

[AnD3rew]

And then we get into the debate of whether they are recovery points or just tie down or lashing points?

There was a document somewhere that had the load ratings for them. Not sure where though, don’t think it is on the website

 

[DCPU]

There was a document somewhere that had the load ratings for them. Not sure where though, don’t think it is on the website

Yes, for the Grenadier.

I was referring to the generic photo previously posted and the conversation thereafter.

 

[Tazzieman]

There was a document somewhere that had the load ratings for them. Not sure where though, don’t think it is on the website

Had these filed away

 

[bigleonski]

And then we get into the debate of whether they are recovery points or just tie down or lashing points?

I've asked this question of Ineos a few times now. I have been told categorically they are rated recovery points, not tie down points.

 

[Tazzieman]

I've asked this question of Ineos a few times now. I have been told categorically they are rated recovery points, not tie down points.

I think he was referring to points on "other" cars , the ones you are being a Good Samaritan to.

 

[bigleonski]

I think he was referring to points on "other" cars , the ones you are being a Good Samaritan to.

Righto. That answer is simple and not for negotiation - no recovery points, then it's maxtrax or a shovel. Shackles and snatch straps are nowhere to be found.

 

[AnD3rew]

Had these filed away
View attachment 7819806
View attachment 7819807

Nice thank you

 

[AnD3rew]

Had these filed away
View attachment 7819806
View attachment 7819807

I am assuming that “Max Load” is equivalent to WLL? 35kn is equivalent to just over 3500kg so I guess you would say adequate but only just adequate for GVM and doesn’t cover the GCM of the vehicle and trailer. 40kn a bit over 4000kg. Would suggest that wherever possible recover from the front and disconnect trailers before recovery if possible.

 

[Tazzieman]

I am assuming that “Max Load” is equivalent to WLL? 35kn is equivalent to just over 3500kg so I guess you would say adequate but only just adequate for GVM and doesn’t cover the GCM of the vehicle and trailer. 40kn a bit over 4000kg. Would suggest that wherever possible recover from the front and disconnect trailers before recovery if possible.

Maybe @AWo can interpret those diagrams/ratings?

 

[DaveB]

I am assuming that “Max Load” is equivalent to WLL? 35kn is equivalent to just over 3500kg so I guess you would say adequate but only just adequate for GVM and doesn’t cover the GCM of the vehicle and trailer. 40kn a bit over 4000kg. Would suggest that wherever possible recover from the front and disconnect trailers before recovery if possible.

It also doesn't include the added load of the terrain/obstacles that the vehicle is being recovered from/over.

 

[AnD3rew]

It also doesn't include the added load of the terrain/obstacles that the vehicle is being recovered from/over.

Or shock loads in case of snatch recoveries or over uneven ground.

 

[Tazzieman]

Or shock loads in case of snatch recoveries or over uneven ground.

I guess you can't give a rating for every possible scenario. Ballistic recoveries in particular.
And everything assumes all equipment is in "as new" condition!

 

[DCPU]

I've asked this question of Ineos a few times now. I have been told categorically they are rated recovery points, not tie down points.

Yes ~ I was not referring to the Grenadier, more the photo previously posted and the general conversation that followed.

Although Ineos could have been clearer (and consistent) in the Owner's Manual:

 

[DCPU]

I am assuming that “Max Load” is equivalent to WLL? 35kn is equivalent to just over 3500kg so I guess you would say adequate but only just adequate for GVM and doesn’t cover the GCM of the vehicle and trailer. 40kn a bit over 4000kg. Would suggest that wherever possible recover from the front and disconnect trailers before recovery if possible.

Don't forget the force required to extract a stuck vehicle will usually be less than GVM unless you are lifting it vertically:



* A simplified version, it gets more complicated if you have missing wheels, etc