Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

bemax · Dec 16, 2022

AZGrenadier said:
You are seriously comparing adding a 1000lb plow built to drag on the ground while hanging 4 feet in front of the axle and pushing 500lbs of snow into a pile to adding a 50lb winch that will be used while the vehicle is not in motion? I will stand by my previous comment that while it "may" make a difference that 50lbs isn't going to be noticeable. In my previous example of adding the bikes to the rear of the vehicle you would need to a lighter sprung front end. When you add an oversize spare and 10gallons of fuel to the back end of the truck are you planning on changing your front springs again? Throw 4 bikes on the back hanging 6ft behind the rear axle, how much will that affect your handling. Even if you add another 100 lbs of mass to the front you are talking about 1.5% of the total system. The good ole days of adding 275 lbs of winch and bumper while removing a 10lb bumper don't apply here. I am going to trust Ineos here and simply not worry or demand anything. Go ahead and demand a front spring though that has 1.5% more load carrying capacity, maybe instead of a 600lb spring rate it is 609 lb.

I do not understand the eagerness here. Extra weight well behind the axles is always a problem. Of course it will not effect a 2,7 ton 4x4 like it would affect a Ford Mondeo.
And it’s regularly not about the big problem if you have the load at one and from time to time (bikes).
It matters for sure when you add weight that will not be removed. And it matters specifically at the front axle as this has a spring rate which is adapted to the expected weight (motor, driver weight between the axles).
As someone pointed out before the weight in front of the axles is pushing with factor x on the nearest axle while it leightens the axle on the other side. So the weight, especially in dynamic environments, is much higher . This can and probably will affect the front springs after a while.
Comparing this to the rear axle is not targeting the aim.
The springs of the rear axle are made to cope with the majority of the payload and the towing forces.
Nevertheless vehicles which drive regularly with a heavy trailer or fully loaded will probably need a new spring setup more early than the empty fun driver.
As it’s just about the laws of leverage there is not to much place for discussion from my point of view.

Tazzieman · Dec 16, 2022

bemax said:
vehicles which drive regularly with a heavy trailer or fully loaded will probably need a new spring setup more early than the empty fun driver.

Exactly. In my country a lot of us will be using these for touring with heavy payloads.

DCPU · Dec 16, 2022

globalgregors said:
The issue with using this on a naked loop is that it will stress the dyneema, correct fitment would be to a loop which is supported by a thimble.

To be clear, one can go to a chandlery/hardware, buy a suitable thimble and whipping twine and adapt the loop, likely without needing to re-splice it.

I agree that a rope supported by a thimble is best, especially the closed types; but there's some interesting thoughts/observations on using thimbles, the ratio of the rope diameter (D) to the diameter of the shackle pin (d), thimble or other attachment point:

Re-evaluating Eye-splice Thimbles - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.

www.practical-sailor.com

There's also the question of knowing if the rope provided is heat set or not?

globalgregors · Dec 16, 2022

DCPU said:
I agree that a rope supported by a thimble is best, especially the closed types; but there's some interesting thoughts/observations on using thimbles, the ratio of the rope diameter (D) to the diameter of the shackle pin (d), thimble or other attachment point:

Re-evaluating Eye-splice Thimbles - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.

www.practical-sailor.com

There's also the question of knowing if the rope provided is heat set or not?

Oh, interesting:

High molecular polyethylene (HMPE): Slippery HMPE fibers (such as Dyneema) share the load better, since they can easily slip over each other. Like nylon, when the D:d ratio = 1, the strength of the eye is undiminished. Because the line diameter and the pin diameter are generally about equal strength in applications that use Dyneema, no thimble is required. Heat-set Dyneema, used for standing rigging, is a special case, and should have a thimble or ring.

…so here regarded as necessary for a typical hook, but perhaps not essential for a pin of equal or greater diameter than the 11mm line.
Which suits me as the shackle I’m interested in has a 16mm pin. Thanks for sharing that.

Brookers78 · Dec 16, 2022

Camskii said:
Just looking at the picture of the kit in the configurator it shows the 12t ring not the 5t one.

That's an old image and the kit contents have been updated since then.

Brookers78 · Dec 16, 2022

Mitchell300 said:
Do you have a list of what’s included in the recovery kit. I took a punt and have already ordered it.

The kit contains the following items,

2 x 12mm soft shackles 18.94T MBS
2 x 4T steel shackles
1 x winching gloves
1 x S-RING-50
1 × Tow strop 11T MBS x 10m that can be used as a winch line extension
1 x Tow strop 12T MBS x 4m
1 x 3m endless sling 11T MBS
1 X RED Winches recovery kit bag.

Jean Mercier · Dec 16, 2022

Brookers78 said:
That's an old image and the kit contents have been updated since then.

Well, this is quite strange: I looked at "my Belgian" Ineos configuration, and it shows also the 12 ton ring, even in a new configuration that I made just to play around!

Mitchell300 · Dec 16, 2022

Brookers78 said:
The kit contains the following items,

2 x 12mm soft shackles 18.94T MBS
2 x 4T steel shackles
1 x winching gloves
1 x S-RING-50
1 × Tow strop 11T MBS x 10m that can be used as a winch line extension
1 x Tow strop 12T MBS x 4m
1 x 3m endless sling 11T MBS
1 X RED Winches recovery kit bag.

Thanks.

DCPU · Dec 16, 2022

Brookers78 said:
That's an old image and the kit contents have been updated since then.

It's Ineos' problem not yours, but good luck to them when a customer points out they want the items as advertised and not cheaper replacements.

Mitchell300 · Dec 16, 2022

globalgregors said:
Yes, I’m also puzzled by this. Two things:

How is the loop neatly stowed against the fairlead? The example at my drive day was swinging off a recovery point by a carabiner, with 30cms or so exposed.

If no winch shackle is provided surely the loop would be finished with a thimble, permitting the use of pin-retained shackles.

I found these options for a fairlead replacement on the Yankum.com website. Seems like a good option for attaching the end loop out of the way.

DCPU · Dec 16, 2022

Mitchell300 said:
I found these options for a fairlead replacement on the Yankum.com website. Seems like a good option for attaching the end loop out of the way.

Have you posted the right image?

Mitchell300 · Dec 16, 2022

DCPU said:
Have you posted the right image?

These are a bit clearer, had posted a picture of the available options.

DCPU · Dec 16, 2022

Ah ~ that makes sense to me now

Or you use the freespool lever, as long as you have a light touch on the remote:

ECrider · Dec 16, 2022

DCPU said:
Ah ~ that makes sense to me now

Or you use the freespool lever, as long as you have a light touch on the remote:
View attachment 7797967

thick bit of dowel or similar 4-5" long placed vertically thru the eye works well.

DCPU · Dec 16, 2022

I think dogbones were a thing once?

globalgregors · Dec 16, 2022

Mitchell300 said:
I found these options for a fairlead replacement on the Yankum.com website. Seems like a good option for attaching the end loop out of the way.

Red have their own solution. I’ll be using something like this.

MrMike · Dec 17, 2022

ECrider said:
This guy explains technicals quite well imo

Yes Robert is a very knowledgeable person, worth watching his may other videos

Logsplitter · Dec 17, 2022

globalgregors said:
Red have their own solution. I’ll be using something like this.

A neat solution. Maybe the Grenadier will come with one if that’s whats needed to store the winch rope properly.

Brookers78 · Dec 17, 2022

Logsplitter said:
A neat solution. Maybe the Grenadier will come with one if that’s whats needed to store the winch rope properly.

Sadly the Grenadier will not come with any solution, they have all been put forwards but adding anything hard ahead of the Fairlead would have meant the vehicle would not have passed the pedestrian safety tests

Logsplitter · Dec 17, 2022

Brookers78 said:
Sadly the Grenadier will not come with any solution, they have all been put forwards but adding anything hard ahead of the Fairlead would have meant the vehicle would not have passed the pedestrian safety tests

Thanks for the clarification. We all get to add our own solution I guess.

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