Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

[DCPU]

G

good point. This means we need two rings. One for the end of the winch line and another instead of a snatch block to be used as a snatch ring when using a double line pull

I think you can still rig with a snatchblock, especially if you already have one and don't want to go to the expense of a 2nd snatch ring.

In either case, though, you will need 1 or 2 soft shackles, as the rings carry a warning: "Warning: This product is not to be used with steel D-Shackles or Bow Shackles. Only Soft Shackles should be used"

 

[Logsplitter]

I think you can still rig with a snatchblock, especially if you already have one and don't want to go to the expense of a 2nd snatch ring.

In either case, though, you will need 1 or 2 soft shackles, as the rings carry a warning: "Warning: This product is not to be used with steel D-Shackles or Bow Shackles. Only Soft Shackles should be used"

I’m with you there. Unfortunately I sold all my kit with the Landy as a ready to go overland vehicle. So all new snatch rings and soft shackles for me

 

[DCPU]

Yes, I’m also puzzled by this. Two things:

1. How is the loop neatly stowed against the fairlead? The example at my drive day was swinging off a recovery point by a carabiner, with 30cms or so exposed.
2. If no winch shackle is provided surely the loop would be finished with a thimble, permitting the use of pin-retained shackles.

Yes, not the greatest looking carabiner either...

 

[Logsplitter]

This guy explains technicals quite well imo

This guy has some very informative videos

 

[Logsplitter]

Yes, not the greatest looking carabiner either...View attachment 7797904
View attachment 7797905

That’s a key ring

 

[stickshifter]

I am a real newbie when it comes to winches. I don't know about the terminology, various components and the techniques. Can anyone point me to an idiots guide to winching/recovery?

In particular could someone explain the practical implications of the load rating?
In my case I was thinking of adding the front tow hitch (which I can see us, especially the wife whose talents don't include spatial awareness) to move the horse trailer/van etc, and carrying a removable winch as backup when touring. What I don't get is, if the integrated winch is rated at 5500kg and the rear is 3500kg what does that mean in practice if the car has a GVM of 3550 or is fully loaded to the GCM of 7000.
Does it mean you have to unload etc get the vehicle mass down close to the winch rating before attempting a self recovery?

Thanks in advance

The best thing to do would be to take an off-road driving course that includes winching. One way to find a course is through a local 4x4 rescue group (if there is one near you), or you can just google around, read reviews, etc. to find a course that has a good reputation.

Many on the forum have posted that they would like Ineos to offer such a course (like Ford does with the Raptor and Bronco, Landrover has courses, etc.).

You can also start to learn by researching online. It is important to watch a variety of videos, and not take any one video as gospel. In every video, they probably make a mistake or two, or suggest a method that is not "best practice". By watching multiple videos, and by keeping a critical perspective, you can start to develop a knowledge base in which you understand the basics, but you also start to recognize different techniques. You can research those specific differences, but again, recognize that no one source is the gospel truth. If you take a course from a professional, you can ask about the different techniques. Lastly, there is constant evolution in gear: synthetic winch lines have mostly replaced steel cables in recreational use, soft shackles are now replacing steel ones, etc. Older videos may reference the older gear. Some videos that might be helpful places to start:

4x4 Off Road:

Robert Pepper (he has some other videos on winching, this is just one):

Exp Overland Part One:

Exp Overland Part Two:

Good luck!

 

[Logsplitter]

How not to recover a vehicle

 

[DCPU]

That’s a key ring

I didn’t like to say/be rude... but that was also my conclusion.

Maybe done better here:

 

[DCPU]

I think I might be reading/watching these later:

Basic Guide to Winch Rigging

We have put together this video of basic winch rigging techniques to show you how to get the most out of your truck or SUV's winch.

international.warn.com

Basic Winch Techniques

We’ve put together this Basic Winch Techniques video to give you simple quick-start guide to using your WARN winch.

international.warn.com

 

[globalgregors]

I didn’t like to say/be rude... but that was also my conclusion.

Maybe done better here:View attachment 7797908

A rope guard stored against the fairlead would be better, or at least sleeve the exposed section of line.

 

[CountyV8]

You just need one of these.

 

[Mitchell300]

Rope is finished with a soft spliced loop sized to take our S-RING-50 which is included in the recovery kit.
A S-RING must be used to give the correct bend radius to the rope and allows for closed loop winching.

Do you have a list of what’s included in the recovery kit. I took a punt and have already ordered it.

 

[stickshifter]

I think I might be reading/watching these later:

Basic Guide to Winch Rigging

We have put together this video of basic winch rigging techniques to show you how to get the most out of your truck or SUV's winch.

international.warn.com

Basic Winch Techniques

We’ve put together this Basic Winch Techniques video to give you simple quick-start guide to using your WARN winch.

international.warn.com

These are good finds DCPU.

I haven't watched this 15-minute video yet, but its from Ronny Dahl, who is a well-respected off-roader from down-under. I've seen some of his other stuff, and it is always good. The downside is that the video is 7 years old, so maybe some of the gear is dated, but I'd wager its still worth watching. EDIT: as expected, he is using some outdated techniques. For example, he uses a steel shackle (which was the norm 7 years ago), and today a soft shackle is recommended (in most cases). He was doing "best practice" at the time. I still think this is worthwhile, just update the gear in your mind

 

[emax]

This guy explains technicals quite well imo

He is a reference.

 

[globalgregors]

You just need one of these.View attachment 7797923

That's an example of what I'm referring to as a 'pin-retained shackle'. The issue with using this on a naked loop is that it will stress the dyneema, correct fitment would be to a loop which is supported by a thimble.

To be clear, one can go to a chandlery/hardware, buy a suitable thimble and whipping twine and adapt the loop, likely without needing to re-splice it.

I guess the broader issue is that if one is paying this much for the winch, don't lock in a cross-sell. I say that with no animosity towards Red - I'm very much looking forward to owning and operating their winch. It's just that I have something else in mind for the recovery kit.

All that said, googling away I see there are alternatives.

 

[Camskii]

Rope is finished with a soft spliced loop sized to take our S-RING-50 which is included in the recovery kit.
A S-RING must be used to give the correct bend radius to the rope and allows for closed loop winching.

Just looking at the picture of the kit in the configurator it shows the 12t ring not the 5t one.

 

[AZGrenadier]

But the issue with the winch/steel bumper/roo bar is that the weight is in front of the front axle. That has a much different impact on handling than weight in the passenger compartment, or anywhere else between the axles. The combo of the three (winch/steel bumper/roo bar) has got to be somewhere between 150-250 pounds (65-113 kg) - someone who is motivated can find the exact weight. That requires different front springs, or that heavy nose will throw-off the handling dynamics of the vehicle. If you have never experienced this - it is very noticeable, and not fun. Because the driver sits between the axles, their weight does not affect vehicle dynamics. Exception: vehicles with soft springs can get a sag to the driver's side over time, if the vehicle is usually driven empty except for the driver. This used to happen with Jeeps, because they have super-soft springs to allow for maximum articulation (this makes Jeeps outstanding at rock crawling, but only allows for a paltry payload).

But carry enough weight, and even if it is between the axles it will - of course - affect vehicle dynamics. This is why - when hauling significant weight - it makes sense to distribute your load evenly, and keep the heaviest stuff as low as possible, and between the axles. This matters if you have to make an emergency maneuver.

Providing appropriate springs to match the OEM equipment is not about anticipating vehicle usage, its about accomodating the different equipment as specc'd by the manufacturer. Both practical - and legal - vehicle usage is based the certified payload and tow-rating.

This is like saying you can’t drive a vehicle with 4 bikes hanging off the back of a car on a bike rack. The rear overhang of most cars is significantly longer then the front, a bike rack can weigh 100 lbs and 4 bikes another 130ish. So you are talking about 230 lbs, over 100kg unweighting the front end. It certainly doesn’t make a 6000lb vehicle unsafe to drive. People are really worried about this, we aren’t talking about a 1800lb track car here.

 

[stickshifter]

This is like saying you can’t drive a vehicle with 4 bikes hanging off the back of a car on a bike rack. The rear overhang of most cars is significantly longer then the front, a bike rack can weigh 100 lbs and 4 bikes another 130ish. So you are talking about 230 lbs, over 100kg unweighting the front end. It certainly doesn’t make a 6000lb vehicle unsafe to drive. People are really worried about this, we aren’t talking about a 1800lb track car here.

No, not really. The front is different from the rear. Weight off your ass-end won’t affect your steering nearly as much. And If what you are saying is true, manufacturers like Ineos, Ram, Ford, etc. wouldn’t have different front springs based on bumper, winch, snow plow, etc. but by all means, order the steel bumper, Roo bar, and winch, and demand the light-duty springs

 

[AZGrenadier]

No, not really. The front is different from the rear. Weight off your ass-end won’t affect your steering nearly as much. And If what you are saying is true, manufacturers like Ineos, Ram, Ford, etc. wouldn’t have different front springs based on bumper, winch, snow plow, etc. but by all means, order the steel bumper, Roo bar, and winch, and demand the light-duty springs

You are seriously comparing adding a 1000lb plow built to drag on the ground while hanging 4 feet in front of the axle and pushing 500lbs of snow into a pile to adding a 50lb winch that will be used while the vehicle is not in motion? I will stand by my previous comment that while it "may" make a difference that 50lbs isn't going to be noticeable. In my previous example of adding the bikes to the rear of the vehicle you would need to a lighter sprung front end. When you add an oversize spare and 10gallons of fuel to the back end of the truck are you planning on changing your front springs again? Throw 4 bikes on the back hanging 6ft behind the rear axle, how much will that affect your handling. Even if you add another 100 lbs of mass to the front you are talking about 1.5% of the total system. The good ole days of adding 275 lbs of winch and bumper while removing a 10lb bumper don't apply here. I am going to trust Ineos here and simply not worry or demand anything. Go ahead and demand a front spring though that has 1.5% more load carrying capacity, maybe instead of a 600lb spring rate it is 609 lb.

 

[Tazzieman]

4WD Lift Kits and Springs for increased front load accessories

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