New racks & winch bumper option coming soon...

[255/85]

That will be appealing to those who want dealer/official winch support. Besides an electrical upgrade, we seem (?) to know that the factory puts in different springs for winch-equipped vehicles and also (?) a different front cross member, according to that builders doc shared elsewhere on the forum.

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Do they mean "bumper" or is the front crossmember removable? I haven't removed the front bash plate to have a look but a cursory examination says everything is welded in place.

 

[anand]

Do they mean "bumper" or is the front crossmember removable? I haven't removed the front bash plate to have a look but a cursory examination says everything is welded in place.

I think by cross member they mean the bumper support piece; but that's just my assumption. The bumper cover itself (other than the grille cut outs) is the same between winch/no winch

 

[chtucker]

Where are people hooking the winch electrical up to if you don’t have the high current package?

I really disagree with the GP Products winch kit using the frame as the ground/return. Warn instructions always say that you should go to the battery. You can’t be sure of the path/size of the ground from the chassis to the battery. It’s not meant to flow 400amp on stock grounding wires.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Where are people hooking the winch electrical up to if you don’t have the high current package?

I really disagree with the GP Products winch kit using the frame as the ground/return. Warn instructions always say that you should go to the battery. You can’t be sure of the path/size of the ground from the chassis to the battery. It’s not meant to flow 400amp on stock grounding wires.

Why don't you ground to the ground post in engine bay?

 

[chtucker]

Why don't you ground to the ground post in engine bay?

I don’t know, that’s why I asked… The GP instructions say to ground to chassis, which is generally a no no with winches.

How large is the wire from the ground post to the battery?

 

[ADVAW8S]

I don’t know, that’s why I asked… The GP instructions say to ground to chassis, which is generally a no no with winches.

How large is the wire from the ground post to the battery?

No clue but might be easy to run out and check. I would but I have a big empty parking spot.

 

[anand]

Where are people hooking the winch electrical up to if you don’t have the high current package?

I really disagree with the GP Products winch kit using the frame as the ground/return. Warn instructions always say that you should go to the battery. You can’t be sure of the path/size of the ground from the chassis to the battery. It’s not meant to flow 400amp on stock grounding wires.

My plan is to go to one of the extra spots on the jump start terminal.

There are a number of other vehicle applications where you ground to the chassis in lieu of the battery, our Sprinter being one of them (with a Warn VR Evo 12-S, no issues). I don't have one to inspect at the moment, but I would be surprised if the factory RED winch was not grounded to the chassis.

If it was flowing 400A continuous, then I totally agree that you could have some issues with the factory ground wire; and on certain vehicles (I'm thinking late model Toyotas that use ~8AWG cable for their battery to chassis grounds) I wouldn't consider it. But the 400A (or whatever winch loads you will see) is a pulsed intermittent load that rarely lasts for longer than 30 seconds.

The Grenadier ground wire I'd approximate to be between 2-3AWG, which at <1ft length, can sustain >200A continuous (which makes sense given the alternator output alone).

 

[Zimm]

But the 400A (or whatever winch loads you will see) is a pulsed intermittent load that rarely lasts for longer than 30 seconds.

The Grenadier ground wire I'd approximate to be between 2-3AWG, which at <1ft length, can sustain >200A continuous (which makes sense given the alternator output alone).

What do you mean by "pulsed intermittent load"? PWM on a winch?

 

[anand]

What do you mean by "pulsed intermittent load"? PWM on a winch?

No no, not PWM, but it isn't a constant 400A draw. It may be 200A for 5 seconds, 325A for 10 seconds, then 275A for 5 seconds... then a pause perhaps to reset, re-evaluate, etc, then 150A for 5 seconds, 350A for 2 seconds, etc.

All the calculators for wire gauge (based on amperage and length) are all based upon a specific amp load for continuous draw

 

[Zimm]

No no, not PWM, but it isn't a constant 400A draw. It may be 200A for 5 seconds, 325A for 10 seconds, then 275A for 5 seconds... then a pause perhaps to reset, re-evaluate, etc, then 150A for 5 seconds, 350A for 2 seconds, etc.

All the calculators for wire gauge (based on amperage and length) are all based upon a specific amp load for continuous draw

As far as I know, this is just a simple DC motor without any controls other than your thumb. You're gonna deal with your applied voltage, resistance, and some mitigating inductance. A long hard pull could last a good bit, and 30s doesn't seem to be a short period given the small stud contact area on most winches I've used. I've felt some motor connections get pretty damn hot.. The initial load with initial voltage ought to be around 3x run, so manually pulsing it and letting the motor stop without a decent break for cooling is 1/2 a dozen of one, six of another.

What the manufacturer means when they rate the draw at something like 400a, I have no clue. They don't really have a standard they are following like NFPA70, and I've never seen a curve with a load. They are more like self policed inverter ratings and portable gen sets. (is it 3000w or 3000 surge watts, or just Chinese bullish on paper?) . As far as the load varying, well, dropping 150a below peak for 5 seconds doesnt equate to permitting 300a above for 2.5 seconds. You don't get to bank the area under the curve. Overload protection for motors gets sized up beyond the wire rating for startup purpposes, and thats it. For my winches I typically use 2/0 DLO... Not because I'm designing properly, but mostly because I have a shitload of it laying around from UPS systems.