Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

stickshifter · Dec 13, 2022

DaveB said:
Don't forget the Roo bar and the front tow hitch options
The checkerplate?

Yeah, and some come with back seats, and some without - I wasn't going to try to get every variant. The Roo bar, due to its location in front of the front axle, is significant (when combined with a steel bumper and winch). Anyone know the curb weight for the lightest and heaviest variants? Sorry - I'm not going to look it up!

Lightest: Gas engine / plastic bumper / no winch / 2-seater / no safari windows / single battery / no checker-plating / no side-steps or rock sliders
Heaviest: Diesel engine / steel bumper & Roo bar / winch / 4-seater / safari windows / dual battery / checker-plates / rock-sliders

Zacman110 · Dec 13, 2022

The Australian Ineos team said there would be somewhere in the region of 6 spring rate options from the factory, considering different combinations of winch/bullbar/scrub bars/rock sliders etc

stickshifter · Dec 13, 2022

Zacman110 said:
The Australian Ineos team said there would be somewhere in the region of 6 spring rate options from the factory, considering different combinations of winch/bullbar/scrub bars/rock sliders etc

Thanks! That makes sense.

Greg · Dec 13, 2022

Allowance for towball weight of what ever it is that you are moving using the front tow ball?
Not that you would be going any great distance or speed.

Jean Mercier · Dec 13, 2022

Zacman110 said:
The Australian Ineos team said there would be somewhere in the region of 6 spring rate options from the factory, considering different combinations of winch/bullbar/scrub bars/rock sliders etc

OK, sure it makes sense, but on the other hand: Ineos doesn't know how the car will be used.
25 kg (the winch) is 1% of the weight f the car. But some cars will have a driver of 100kg, driving only at "one" side (left or right) of the car and a car with the same configuration will have a driver of 70kg (that's my weight); usually car makers take quite some safety margins regarding specs.

CountyV8 · Dec 13, 2022

Hi Brookers78 ( Neil )thanks for joining and sharing personally I think the european solution for the winch is highly impractical the removable plastic cover alone is unworkable so we will just leave it off and stick a numberplate on a bracket. With the ROW version there is more room behind the winch to mount spotlights which I think we will be struggling with on the european version as not enough room when the cover is removed .I would also love to fit the front tow hitch to move aircraft (airside) around but the european version won't allow for this
Will be interested in the parts list to change over. Also a plastic bumper scratches .
I notice the rear bumpers are all metal what if you reverse over a european.?
Not enough room behind green line for spotlights will have to put them on metal bar /plate .

DaveB · Dec 13, 2022

Greg said:
Allowance for towball weight of what ever it is that you are moving using the front tow ball?
Not that you would be going any great distance or speed.

No just the weight of the tow hitch and mounting stuff itself.

DaveB · Dec 13, 2022

CountyV8 said:
Hi Brookers78 thanks for joining and sharing personally I think the european solution for the winch is highly impractical the removable plastic cover alone is unworkable so we will just leave it off and stick a numberplate on a bracket. With the ROW version there is more room behind the winch to mount spotlights which I think we will be struggling with on the european version as not enough room when the cover is removed .
Will be interested in the parts list to change over. Also a plastic bumper scratches .
I notice the rear bumpers are all metal what if you reverse over a european.?

Drive forward over them again

grenadierboy · Dec 13, 2022

CountyV8 said:
Hi Brookers78 thanks for joining and sharing personally I think the european solution for the winch is highly impractical the removable plastic cover alone is unworkable so we will just leave it off and stick a numberplate on a bracket. With the ROW version there is more room behind the winch to mount spotlights which I think we will be struggling with on the european version as not enough room when the cover is removed .
Will be interested in the parts list to change over. Also a plastic bumper scratches .
I notice the rear bumpers are all metal what if you reverse over a european.?
Not enough room behind green line for spotlights will have to put them on metal bar /plate .
View attachment 7797784 View attachment 7797782

An INEOS rep advised that the front spring rating is upgraded if the winch and roo bar is selected.

I recall the Roo Bar is 40kg but not sure if that includes the side protection or not.

CountyV8 · Dec 13, 2022

Thanks for all the information Neil its good to hear from the manufacturer many you can comment on Red's accessories and how to use your product to its best advantage.

stickshifter · Dec 13, 2022

Jean Mercier said:
OK, sure it makes sense, but on the other hand: Ineos doesn't know how the car will be used.
25 kg (the winch) is 1% of the weight f the car. But some cars will have a driver of 100kg, driving only at "one" side (left or right) of the car and a car with the same configuration will have a driver of 70kg (that's my weight); usually car makers take quite some safety margins regarding specs.

But the issue with the winch/steel bumper/roo bar is that the weight is in front of the front axle. That has a much different impact on handling than weight in the passenger compartment, or anywhere else between the axles. The combo of the three (winch/steel bumper/roo bar) has got to be somewhere between 150-250 pounds (65-113 kg) - someone who is motivated can find the exact weight. That requires different front springs, or that heavy nose will throw-off the handling dynamics of the vehicle. If you have never experienced this - it is very noticeable, and not fun. Because the driver sits between the axles, their weight does not affect vehicle dynamics. Exception: vehicles with soft springs can get a sag to the driver's side over time, if the vehicle is usually driven empty except for the driver. This used to happen with Jeeps, because they have super-soft springs to allow for maximum articulation (this makes Jeeps outstanding at rock crawling, but only allows for a paltry payload).

But carry enough weight, and even if it is between the axles it will - of course - affect vehicle dynamics. This is why - when hauling significant weight - it makes sense to distribute your load evenly, and keep the heaviest stuff as low as possible, and between the axles. This matters if you have to make an emergency maneuver.

Providing appropriate springs to match the OEM equipment is not about anticipating vehicle usage, its about accomodating the different equipment as specc'd by the manufacturer. Both practical - and legal - vehicle usage is based the certified payload and tow-rating.

CountyV8 · Dec 13, 2022

Can we have a winch like this one please Brookers78

Tazzieman · Dec 14, 2022

CountyV8 said:
Can we have a winch like this one please Brookers78
View attachment 7797786

A vehicle that capable should not need a winch!

Bushguide · Dec 14, 2022

DaveB said:
Drive forward over them again

Dont laugh DaveB, I can remember that happening to a certain "Uncle" Jimmie up at Bloomfield River Mission years ago. "Uncle" Jimmie had just come back from the Lions Den at the time.

DaveB · Dec 14, 2022

Bushguide said:
Dont laugh DaveB, I can remember that happening to a certain "Uncle" Jimmie up at Bloomfield River Mission years ago. "Uncle" Jimmie had just come back from the Lions Den at the time.

There was a case a few years ago were a guy bumped over something reversing out of his drive
He drove up his drive an d got out to see what it was
His two year old.
One of the reasons we all have reversing cameras compulsory now.

Tazzieman · Dec 14, 2022

DaveB said:
There was a case a few years ago were a guy bumped over something reversing out of his drive
He drove up his drive an d got out to see what it was
His two year old.
One of the reasons we all have reversing cameras compulsory now.

My wife's Volvo EV slams its brakes on if the side sensor detects a twig or something beside the car when reversing down a driveway.
You feel like you have been hit in the back of the head with a rubber baseball bat.
I guess Volvo has figured humans can't be trusted to use reversing cameras reliably.

CountyV8 · Dec 14, 2022

Tazzieman said:
A vehicle that capable should not need a winch!

Winches are not all self recovery .

DCPU · Dec 14, 2022

Brookers78 said:
Sadly I cant comment on the warranty and servicing as this is being finalised at the moment.

Any work that might need to be done to the winch will probably mean it needs to be removed from the vehicle however that shouldn't be necessary for a long time. This winch has been through more development and testing than any product we have built before and it is a very robust powerhouse of a unit.

I am not allowed to share any of the winch testing images at this time which is a shame as I have a lot

The design brief was for a 5.5T electric winch. A hydraulic winch has never been asked for or discussed.

Many thanks for the response ~ I hope in time Ineos will either publish the winch photos or allow you to publish them direct.

As with the vehicle, it would sell itself with images of it doing what it's designed to do; so it seems counterproductive that images and information on the product is in such short supply.

Given your response to my specific questions ~ would it be acceptable to ask what are you allowed to share with regard to the winch setup? With the scarecity of detail, any information will be gratefully received.

Will it be a relatively simple task to fit retrospectively? Is it 4 bolts to hold winch in tray/cradle and 4 bolts for tray/cradle to chassis?

Are you supplying the flying leads for the removeable rear winch? Is it the same arrangement for the front winch? Who spec'd the NATO 2 pin plugs/sockets ~ you or Ineos?

Can the winch be upgraded to add your air brake?

DCPU · Dec 14, 2022

Zacman110 said:
The Australian Ineos team said there would be somewhere in the region of 6 spring rate options from the factory, considering different combinations of winch/bullbar/scrub bars/rock sliders etc

Is that different from this then?

Tazzieman · Dec 14, 2022

CountyV8 said:
Winches are not all self recovery .

I was just avving a laff

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