Grenadier winch bumper uk vs australia

[Tinki]

i think there are too many unknowns at this point to say who is right and who is wrong. I guess we just wait and see what happens . Worst case scenario we hunt for a solution if it is a problem . The only definite i can see you cannot winch backwards with out a snatch block at the front .
It would be very useful if we had the engineering diagrams of the front of the vehicle had a look but could not find anything unfortunately. Thanks guys for the input !

 

[Max]

Obviously, if you are retrieving a vehicle those angles don't change much if the other vehicle is not steerable but if you are in your own recovery situation the angles should straighten up fairly quickly I would imagine...happy motoring

 

[DCPU]

As a small aside, good to see the responsible people at JLR understanding and promoting safe winching practises :

 

[Logsplitter]

As a small aside, good to see the responsible people at JLR understanding and promoting safe winching practises :
View attachment 7797732View attachment 7797733

And why they have to use a big metal hook I don’t know. Modern soft shackles are a much safer option. If the recovery eye on the vehicle your were winching gave way, you could cause some damage.

 

[Tazzieman]

As a small aside, good to see the responsible people at JLR understanding and promoting safe winching practises :
View attachment 7797732View attachment 7797733

Hearing protection. How loud is this thing?

 

[tartan shepherd]

Anyone else thinking they might need these for the front UK/Euro bumper?

 

[DCPU]

Can you remove them and use as traction devices under the wheels, ala maxtraxs?

 

[Brookers78]

Hi Guys, first post here to try and answer some questions. I work for RED Winches and I have been involved with the winch installation from the very beginning and involved with all the integration testing so hopefully I can answer any questions you may have.
Yes the front crossmember is very different for the ECE models and ROW. Yes it is possible to swap them over and I am told that the parts will be available wherever you are.
Fitting a integrated winch into a modern vehicle and passing safety tests and homologation has been challenging and the engineers at INEOS have worked hard to make this happen.
Yes on the ECE model the winch is set back due to pedestrian safety rules, nothing can be done about this and new Defender is exactly the same but you can still winch up to 45° in any orientation if you need to. If your angle is greater then more complex rigging will be needed to divert the winch line.
Hope this helps. Hit me up if you have any specific questions.

 

[Krabby]

Welcome aboard - fantastic to have an inside guy/gal in the family.

 

[Krabby]

Hi Guys, first post here to try and answer some questions. I work for RED Winches and I have been involved with the winch installation from the very beginning and involved with all the integration testing so hopefully I can answer any questions you may have.
Yes the front crossmember is very different for the ECE models and ROW. Yes it is possible to swap them over and I am told that the parts will be available wherever you are.
Fitting a integrated winch into a modern vehicle and passing safety tests and homologation has been challenging and the engineers at INEOS have worked hard to make this happen.
Yes on the ECE model the winch is set back due to pedestrian safety rules, nothing can be done about this and new Defender is exactly the same but you can still winch up to 45° in any orientation if you need to. If your angle is greater then more complex rigging will be needed to divert the winch line.
Hope this helps. Hit me up if you have any specific questions.

Any insight into the effect the winches had on the front suspension and if/how Ineos adjusted the front springs?

 

[Brookers78]

Any insight into the effect the winches had on the front suspension and if/how Ineos adjusted the front springs?

I dont believe the springs have been changed. The winch is only around 25kg and all the INEOS vehicles I have driven have had the winch fitted and the vehicles have been fully loaded with weights to max weight so I cant really comment on if it handles and differently to a non winch equipped vehicle.

 

[DCPU]

Hi and welcome @Brookers78

Other than tasks undertaken by the owner, you seem to recommend a periodic service at an authorised Red Winch centre/partner/distributor.

Is this a requirement to maintain the Grenadier winch warranty?
What does this consist of?
What would be the period under normal use (I'll leave you to define that)?
Is it done with the winch on the vehicle or does the winch need unbolting and it's a workbench task?
Have Ineos' agents/retail partners for the servicing of the vehicles been trained by you to do this or are yourselves (or others) directly involved?

Have you got any photos of the vehicle winching you can share?

Did Ineos specifically ask for an electric winch, or was a version of your Supacat winch considered?

 

[Logsplitter]

Hi Guys, first post here to try and answer some questions. I work for RED Winches and I have been involved with the winch installation from the very beginning and involved with all the integration testing so hopefully I can answer any questions you may have.
Yes the front crossmember is very different for the ECE models and ROW. Yes it is possible to swap them over and I am told that the parts will be available wherever you are.
Fitting a integrated winch into a modern vehicle and passing safety tests and homologation has been challenging and the engineers at INEOS have worked hard to make this happen.
Yes on the ECE model the winch is set back due to pedestrian safety rules, nothing can be done about this and new Defender is exactly the same but you can still winch up to 45° in any orientation if you need to. If your angle is greater then more complex rigging will be needed to divert the winch line.
Hope this helps. Hit me up if you have any specific questions.

Can someone come up with a better solution for accessing the winch, in the EU and U.K. vehicles? Rather than having to use a screwdriver to undo the plastic cover every time the winch needs to be used ? or is this just for prototype vehicles maybe. ? With a better solution inline for customer vehicles. Thanks.

 

[Brookers78]

Hi and welcome @Brookers78

Other than tasks undertaken by the owner, you seem to recommend a periodic service at an authorised Red Winch centre/partner/distributor.

Is this a requirement to maintain the Grenadier winch warranty?
What does this consist of?
What would be the period under normal use (I'll leave you to define that)?
Is it done with the winch on the vehicle or does the winch need unbolting and it's a workbench task?
Have Ineos' agents/retail partners for the servicing of the vehicles been trained by you to do this or are yourselves (or others) directly involved?

Have you got any photos of the vehicle winching you can share?

Did Ineos specifically ask for an electric winch, or was a version of your Supacat winch considered?

Sadly I cant comment on the warranty and servicing as this is being finalised at the moment.

Any work that might need to be done to the winch will probably mean it needs to be removed from the vehicle however that shouldn't be necessary for a long time. This winch has been through more development and testing than any product we have built before and it is a very robust powerhouse of a unit.

I am not allowed to share any of the winch testing images at this time which is a shame as I have a lot

The design brief was for a 5.5T electric winch. A hydraulic winch has never been asked for or discussed.

 

[Brookers78]

Can someone come up with a better solution for accessing the winch, in the EU and U.K. vehicles? Rather than having to use a screwdriver to undo the plastic cover every time the winch needs to be used ? or is this just for prototype vehicles maybe. ? With a better solution inline for customer vehicles. Thanks.

Unfortunately that's down to INEOS, RED Winches have not been involved with the bumper design.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Unfortunately that's down to INEOS, RED Winches have not been involved with the bumper design.

Thanks a lot for your insider's replies! Very interesting, and I understand, you are under contract, and unless you get authorizations, some info is internal. By the way: I ordered the winch, and indeed, 25 kilo's isn't that much, should not really impact the vehicle.

 

[Oscar01]

Welcome Brookers78, I'm sure you can contribute a lot to this forum.
I also ordered the winch, and I hope that Ineos has improved in the final version the accessibility of the winch, I hope not to have to remove two screws when I have the nose stuck in a muddy,... it is not operational.

They make me envious where they don't run over all the people who pass in front of their car, and therefore, they can use a metal bumper.

 

[stickshifter]

No
25kg makes very little difference.
putting me in the passenger seat or filling the fuel tank would have more impact.

Does the AUS Grenadier with a steel bumper, but without a winch, have the same front springs as the UK Grenadier with a plastic bumper, also without a winch?

If the answer to that question is "Yes" - then if you purchase an AUS Grenadier with the steel bumper, and you add a winch later, then you are adding much more than just the weight of the winch, you've got the bumper as well.

Adding both a steel bumper and a winch (as weight in front of the front axle), without increasing the load-rating of the front springs, will be very noticeable, and will degrade handling of the vehicle. It is not equivalent to carrying the same weight in the passenger compartment (i.e. between the two axles).

Maybe Ineos has developed multiple spring rates for the different variants of the Grenadier. They wouldn't need all eight of these options (below), as there will be some cross-over in weight between some variants. In other words, the eight options listed below do not represent eight distinct weight-classes, but they certainly represent more than two.

1. Gas engine / plastic bumper / no winch - lightest vehicle
2. Gas engine / plastic bumper / winch
3. Gas engine / steel bumper / no winch
4. Gas engine / steel bumper / winch
5. Diesel engine / plastic bumper / no winch
6. Diesel engine / plastic bumper / winch
7. Diesel engine / steel bumper / no winch
8. Diesel engine / steel bumper / winch - heaviest vehicle

Does anyone know how many front spring variants Ineos has developed? Just for comparison - Ram Heavy Duty trucks have dozens of different front springs, based on engine, bumper, payload, snow-plow package, and winch options.

 

[DaveB]

Welcome Brookers78, I'm sure you can contribute a lot to this forum.
I also ordered the winch, and I hope that Ineos has improved in the final version the accessibility of the winch, I hope not to have to remove two screws when I have the nose stuck in a muddy,... it is not operational.

They make me envious where they don't run over all the people who pass in front of their car, and therefore, they can use a metal bumper.

When you go offroad just remove the section and put it in the back of the car
Just a simple thing the same as airing down your tyres

 

[DaveB]

Does the AUS Grenadier with a steel bumper, but without a winch, have the same front springs as the UK Grenadier with a plastic bumper, also without a winch?

If the answer to that question is "Yes" - then if you purchase an AUS Grenadier with the steel bumper, and you add a winch later, then you are adding much more than just the weight of the winch, you've got the bumper as well.

Adding both a steel bumper and a winch (as weight in front of the front axle), without increasing the load-rating of the front springs, will be very noticeable, and will degrade handling of the vehicle. It is not equivalent to carrying the same weight in the passenger compartment (i.e. between the two axles).

Maybe Ineos has developed multiple spring rates for the different variants of the Grenadier. They wouldn't need all eight of these options (below), as there will be some cross-over in weight between some variants. In other words, the eight options listed below do not represent eight distinct weight-classes, but they certainly represent more than two.

1. Gas engine / plastic bumper / no winch - lightest vehicle
2. Gas engine / plastic bumper / winch
3. Gas engine / steel bumper / no winch
4. Gas engine / steel bumper / winch
5. Diesel engine / plastic bumper / no winch
6. Diesel engine / plastic bumper / winch
7. Diesel engine / steel bumper / no winch
8. Diesel engine / steel bumper / winch - heaviest vehicle

Does anyone know how many front spring variants Ineos has developed? Just for comparison - Ram Heavy Duty trucks have dozens of different front springs, based on engine, bumper, payload, snow-plow package, and winch options.

Don't forget the Roo bar and the front tow hitch options
The checkerplate?