What would you say if you could ?

[Zimm]

And IFS, and rack and pinion, and a different suspension setup, and totally upgraded soundproofing, and different audio, and BSM, and adaptive cruise control, and power seats with built in massage, and . . . oh, I guess I’ll just buy a Defender or a Lexus GX550???? It just wouldn’t even be a Grenadier any longer. It always seems to me that CEO’s who say it’s just positioning are usually fooling themselves - and nobody else.

I actually think there's a market for this as is, with a premium interior. The Gwagon made $$ per unit for Merc with a solid front suspension. I have one. It's flaw is it being the worst of all worlds. A truck redesigned for the street, that has crappy articulation and a solid axle. It's re're when you get right down to it, but 99% of those that bought them know as much about suspensions, as they know why a light turns on when a switch is flicked. They bought it because it looked cool, cost enough to show off and was ritzy inside. This has 2 of 3 already.

 

[Max]

TBH I don’t really get her point(s). They went with a dealer model in North America - but wholly inadequate as a service network solution. THAT’S the problem that needs to be addressed in North America and the primary inhibitor to sales - as successful as it’s been with early adopters. She may be right about the agency model not working in other markets - but that won’t address the issue of market fit and regulatory “ticking clock” in those markets. That’s sort of chasing a peripheral point, IMO. It’s not a nimble SUV and they don’t have an EV strategy for Europe. If they fix the agency model, they will still have a limited addressable market in Europe, with a looming deadline. And on the BMW point - was she saying the BMW engine is the problem and they need to get more basic, or just fix the positioning as more luxury? If the latter, and if that stupid TV commercial is any indication, she thinks they should position as more luxury - but there are MYRIAD issues that will prevent the Grenadier from receiving broad adoption in that category. And it all would fly in the face of the design intent and “built on purpose” mission. Frankly, I found the interview disturbing. When your strategy is at odds with your underlying capability, you have a problem.

A Lightweight ducking and weaving

Or an Escape goat, which refers to a farm animal that's good at sneaking out of its pen, not someone who is blamed for the mistakes of others.

 

[Max]

A Lightweight ducking and weaving

Or an Escape goat, which refers to a farm animal that's good at sneaking out of its pen, not someone who is blamed for the mistakes of others.

In fairness, Lyn Calder hit the 4x4 road running but the car is here and we bought it because we wanted it, even when the price was fixed at more than expected.

The Grenadier is on top of the pile in my book, and the BMW diesel is brilliant. I hope all the peripherals relating to it are sorted for whatever reason we think they need to be.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I actually think there's a market for this as is, with a premium interior. The Gwagon made $$ per unit for Merc with a solid front suspension. I have one. It's flaw is it being the worst of all worlds. A truck redesigned for the street, that has crappy articulation and a solid axle. It's re're when you get right down to it, but 99% of those that bought them know as much about suspensions, as they know why a light turns on when a switch is flicked. They bought it because it looked cool, cost enough to show off and was ritzy inside. This has 2 of 3 already.

That would seem a very short-lived and short-sighted strategy. Pure image buyers have a comfort-level expectation. I think it’s a very small number who are willing to go purely on looks - especially once the novelty factor wears off. To get that comfort, in my opinion, requires un-Grenadiering the Grenadier. Thus the steering, suspension, etc etc. Maybe a fool and his money are easily parted - but the affluent “Miami scrote” has to be about the most fragile, sensitive being on the planet. That’s why all of them have handicap tags for their Range Rovers with the iridescent PPF wraps. You might be right - but if that’s her game plan - terrifying.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Thinking more about the points @Zimm made - I guess that’s the idea behind Arcane Works. I’ve got another idea for anyone lurking from Ineos Automotive. It doesn’t address the fundamental issues (service network and European market challenge), but I think it would sell. There are points of vulnerability - such as undercarriage protection, the drive shaft/CV on lifted Grenadiers, etc. Come up with your own version of Toyota TRD - certified solutions under warranty targeted at off-road capability, that are dealer-installed. Call it “The Armoury.” You can still do the namby pamby luxury thing, but your core buyer would LOVE solutions making the Grenadier even more Grenadierery - not less.

Honestly - get Americans a service network and up on 35’s (absurd I know but it is just a thing) and you would probably hit your numbers while you figure out how to deal with Europe.

 

[Tazzieman]

Dear Sir Ratcliffe.
Blah blah blah
Critically yours
Miami Scrote (ret)

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Dear Sir Ratcliffe.
Blah blah blah
Critically yours
Miami Scrote (ret)

Oh my gosh - a RETIRED scrote- the image just got worse. I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[Zimm]

That would seem a very short-lived and short-sighted strategy. Pure image buyers have a comfort-level expectation.

In the USA, Europa and MBUSA got 28 years of huge per unit gravy turning a mil-spec 461 into a luxury/rugged 463. Superficial people like an image, and will pay for it. Considering what some Nantucket housewife that couldn't drive a stick paid for my 110NAS 15 years ago, just to "fit in", I think the business model is rather well established as the best long term strategy in the auto market.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

In the USA, Europa and MBUSA got 28 years of huge per unit gravy turning a mil-spec 461 into a luxury/rugged 463. Superficial people like an image, and will pay for it. Considering what some Nantucket housewife that couldn't drive a stick paid for my 110NAS 15 years ago, just to "fit in", I think the business model is rather well established as the best long term strategy in the auto market.

But don’t you think they would have to do more than interior finish? Maybe it’s enough - maybe if you made it so over the top that it was basically inaccessible, then they would want it and be willing to suffer in silence.

 

[Tazzieman]

Superficial people like an image, and will pay for it.

Very true

 

[wolftimj]

Dear Mr Ratcliffe,

Where’s my damn jacket?

Sincerely,
One Of Your Texas Beta Testers

 

[Zimm]

But don’t you think they would have to do more than interior finish? Maybe it’s enough - maybe if you made it so over the top that it was basically inaccessible, then they would want it and be willing to suffer in silence.

Why? 90% of expensive cars come in grey, black, or old man tan, and tarted up like a bronco raptor isn’t what I tend to see at the CC. It’s distinctive enough.

When it comes to buying stupid shit for superficial reasons, I’m speaking from experience here. I may have already committed that crime in this instance.